WotLK DPS spreadsheet - Page 277

Flikt · 02/04/10, 11:46 AM

I've been having a similar, possibly related problem; inputting my gear, regemming and then recalculating DPS with the gear planner shows:
Distand Land +23.45
Saurfang's Cold-Forged Band -6.48
Sindragosa's Cruel Claw +24.13

But manually substituting each of these items in separately, and then regemming results in actual changes of:
Distand Land +63.91
Saurfang's Cold-Forged Band +9.12
Sindragosa's Cruel Claw +40.89

As far as i know, the way the gear planner works is by substituting each item in and calculating the change in DPS, so there shouldn't be any disparity in the results. This is with the rotation test enabled and seems to only happen with items with haste.

Esoth · 02/04/10, 2:19 PM

Originally Posted by baklava

I believe this is related to having 0 haste and 50 haste from this ring, I have the haste from this ring only, you can load my equip thru armory and see it or;
- First change all haste items except the ring (u will have 50 haste from gear with this ring)
- Remove ring and check the dps
- Write stats the ring below "Hand Adjust" and check dps (1)
- Remove stats from "Hand Adjust", and put the ring on ring slot and check dps (2)

Dps (1) and (2) will be different. to be honest, there is huge difference. I tried many times as MM, and it happens every time, as I said it could be bug related to haste.

I've come across this hand adjust problem as well. I think somewhere in the spreadsheet it is reading off row 97 or something, instead of row 104. In my case, I was able to achieve a reasonable result when I abandoned the hand adjust method and just created a custom item.

Edit: Nevermind, I can't reproduce this. It may still be worth trying it as a custom item as another check.

jumb · 02/05/10, 1:37 AM

I think this is a bug, but appoligies if I'm just not using the spreadsheet right:

I was trying to test if my dps would change by changing all of my red gems to +ArP, so I go into the settings tab and change the default red gem to Fractured Cardinal Ruby, then in the gear, hit "Regem" but it doesn't change any of the gems. However, if I take the gem out of one of my sockets (by changing it to "None") the regem works fine.

Edit: I may have been wrong. Someone just informed me that it ignores the default if the current outcome is better from the regem. My appoligies.

Bikiniwax · 02/05/10, 4:06 PM

I am not sure if this is a bug or not with the spreadsheet but it is regarding the Scourgebane (+140 AP) 2H enchant.

Based upon the post below (and others), Scourgebane's +140AP buff does not transfer to pets.

Best Possible DPS in Shandaras WotLK Spreadsheet

However, using the spreadsheet, if I switch the Massacre +110 AP enchant to Scourgebane, both me and my pet get a DPS boost.

Example:

with Massacre +110 AP
Hunter DPS: 9045.69
Pet DPS: 1224.49
-----------------------
Total DPS: 10270.18

with Scourgebane +140 AP (undead only)
Hunter DPS: 9065.06
Pet DPS: 1226.14
-----------------------
Total DPS: 10291.20

I am having a hard time wrapping my mind around this increase in DPS, especially the increase for the pet alone. Basically, the hunter is receiving +30 more AP, however the pet would not benefit from the 140AP nor the 110AP now that it is also non-existent.

What am I missing here?

KraxisSingular · 02/06/10, 2:48 PM

The pet DPS increase appears fitting with the increase it would gain from the 30 AP fraction. It should really do around 1218 DPS with Scourgebane, if the increase of 1.65 DPS fits with 30 more AP for the Hunter (which I believe it does).

Glognar · 02/07/10, 12:06 PM

Originally Posted by saberos

Even after updating to 93G I am still getting this error when trying to recalculate the DPS.
Last version I didn't have this problem with was 93E.

Any fix yet for the ProgressBar bug? This broke in both 93f and 93g. Is there an add-on in Excel that got turned off? Commenting out the lines that have ProgressBar in them allows the spreadsheet to work again.

Thanks...

Oggy · 02/08/10, 10:41 AM

[Fal'inrush, Defender of Quel'thalas]

The haste(hc&normal) have been changed to arp now

UnstableFluxx · 02/09/10, 12:32 PM

Originally Posted by MizarAlcor

And for gearing purposes, as mentioned before, haste takes the lowest priority among all our DPS-contributing stats. BiS equip sets tend to include the least amount of haste possible (even the lichking's Xbow's stat was changed from giving haste to ArP), and some top hunters can even manage with 0 haste rating.

Whats odd is I just went into the spreadsheet and changed my cloak around. It says Shadowvault Slayer's Cloak was a dps increase over Recovered Scarlet Onslaught Cape. It put me at 10,415dps with Shadowvault and 10,378dps with Onslaught. Is this because the spreadsheet has trouble calculating haste?

Mad_Murdock · 02/09/10, 1:54 PM

Originally Posted by UnstableFluxx

Is this because the spreadsheet has trouble calculating haste?

Couple of questions I have, one ties into the question above. All the stickies I've read, never recommend gemming for Haste. I am seeing a fair number of both Surv and MM hunters that are gemming straight haste or the Agi+Haste gem. According to the spreadsheets numbers for myself, it shows Gemming +10agi+10haste is better than the 10agi+10crit gem.
Does the spreadsheet overvalue Haste ? I've read that femaledwarf.com overvaules haste or some items with haste on it. And so I wondering if people are gemming haste incorrectly. Or is haste a better stat than others are claiming.

My 2nd question\problem, is whenI choose the option to import my talents, it always puts Surv first, even though MM should be first (interestingly enough, femaledwarf.com always imports MM first) But that's not the real issue. I'm using the fairly standard Surv spec, but it always shows my surv spec being 2000-3000 dps less than my MM spec. something along the lines of 7500dps versus 10,600 dps. I'm trying to figure out what I might be doing wrong there, since I don't see others complaining about it.

Thanks for your time.

Seoman · 02/09/10, 2:47 PM

Haste is still not a great stat, but it has come up in the world since pre-3.3. The T10 2x bonus, Zod's proc, and the Ashen Band proc all benefit from Haste.

Plus, folks seem to have more Haste on their gear than in the past, from items such as Distant Land and Band of the Bone Colossus.

That said, I raised some questions about how the spreadsheet handles Haste back in post #4112. Not sure if all is well with Haste in the spreadsheet.

@Mad_Murdock: One reason for seeing such a difference might be if your SV shot rotation is still set up for MM.

Rivkah · 02/09/10, 3:50 PM

Any spreadsheet or simulation is by very nature going to overvalue haste, this is because haste only affects steady and auto, both of which are disproportionately reduced in value by movement in fights compared to other shots. Given most fights have at least some movement and given steady is the lowest priority shot and generally the first one to be dropped in any complex situation, the estimated values for haste will never be accurate to real game conditions. You just have to apply a certain amount of common sense when looking at dps value estimates and adjust accordingly when haste items are being taken into account.

I've seen absolutely no reliable data that supports gemming haste- I suspect hunters you see who gem it are not up on theorycraft and are probably working off some old belief that reaching the softcap is a worthwhile endeavor or under the usually mistaken belief that they "have enough crit".

alienangel · 02/09/10, 6:29 PM

Originally Posted by Seoman

Haste is still not a great stat, but it has come up in the world since pre-3.3. The T10 2x bonus, Zod's proc, and the Ashen Band proc all benefit from Haste.

I don't see how Zod's proc and AshenBand proc benefit from haste at all. Haste can make your zod's proc more, but each proc will do less damage than if you didn't have haste, since the damage of each proc is based on your autoattack damage - if your autoshot scales better with crit/arp/agi/ap better than haste, then so will the Quick Shot proc from Zod's. And The Ashen Band proc has a long ICD (60 seconds), so additional haste should have a very minimal effect on its uptime.

2pc T10 on the other hand scales with haste and only haste, since it's based purely on the frequency of your autoshots, and not their damage, and has no cooldown.

Nooska · 02/10/10, 5:10 AM

Alienangel:

I might be misunderstanding what you are saying but both [Zod's Repeating Longbow] and [Ashen Band of Endless Vengeance] are chance on hit (respectively on ranged attack). Haste doesn't lower the base damage of the weapon, thus both these procs benefit from haste.

More haste equals more autoshots (and for SV and MM more steadies unless at softcap). More autoshots means more hits, and more hits means more chances for the proc to go off.
Now, granted, the ring won't benefit much if at all, as it has an ICD (according to wowhead), but Zod's has no ICD and thus will benefit proportionally to the increased amount of ranged hits (and therefore haste).

alienangel · 02/10/10, 9:35 AM

Originally Posted by Nooska

Alienangel:

I might be misunderstanding what you are saying but both [Zod's Repeating Longbow] and [Ashen Band of Endless Vengeance] are chance on hit (respectively on ranged attack). Haste doesn't lower the base damage of the weapon, thus both these procs benefit from haste.

More haste equals more autoshots (and for SV and MM more steadies unless at softcap). More autoshots means more hits, and more hits means more chances for the proc to go off.

Haste does lower the base damage of the weapon, in the sense that you are losing some other stat to gain haste, and all those other stats you could get (AP/ARP/AGI/CRIT) increase your average base damage, while haste does not. Hence whenever you increase your haste via gear/gems, you are making Zod's proc more, but each proc will do correspondingly less damage than if you had geared/gemmed ap/arp/agi/crit instead. If Zod's proc were like bryntroll's and independent of weapon damage, then you could say unequivocally that haste increases the overall proc-damage - but it's not, and if it were the procchance would be changed to be a PPM like Bryntroll instead of the fixed chance on hit Zod's has, and/or an ICD added.

In a very few cases where you're choosing between 2 things neither of which affect average damage, haste can come out ahead because of Zods - for example choosing between the rocket tinker to gloves and the haste tinker to gloves, or choosing between Imp Stings as SV and Imp Hawk.

This is the same reason you can't say "haste increases your Wild Quiver DPS" - it doesn't, it just gives you more wild quiver procs, each of which does less damage.

Mustacheride · 02/10/10, 9:58 AM

Originally Posted by Nooska

Alienangel:

I might be misunderstanding what you are saying but both [Zod's Repeating Longbow] and [Ashen Band of Endless Vengeance] are chance on hit (respectively on ranged attack). Haste doesn't lower the base damage of the weapon, thus both these procs benefit from haste.

More haste equals more autoshots (and for SV and MM more steadies unless at softcap). More autoshots means more hits, and more hits means more chances for the proc to go off.
Now, granted, the ring won't benefit much if at all, as it has an ICD (according to wowhead), but Zod's has no ICD and thus will benefit proportionally to the increased amount of ranged hits (and therefore haste).

What Alienangel is getting at is Haste does indeed = more autoshots/steadies but that if you were to say trade 30 haste for 30 arp you would see more out of the proc as it scales better with stats other than haste.

Lets take Festergut, everyone likes him. Hes so damn cute. Using some napkin math, last weeks Festergut was like 231 seconds. Using my effective haste as per FD. I, on paper would have gotten 110(wol has me at 120 in reality) shots off. If I were to add 100 haste from the magic stat fairy I would have gotten 114ish auto shots off. From just auto shots 100 haste would have taken me from 5.5 procs on autoshot to 5.7. But im really tired so poke holes in the math and someone else can talk about how good everything else is.