WotLK DPS spreadsheet - Page 284

Blazeflack · 03/28/10, 8:58 AM

Looks like [Item not found!] has been suffering from a typo up until now. This item is now called "Njorndar Bone Bow" ingame. Might take a while for wowhead to reflect this but thought you should know in case the name change will cause problems when importing from armory.

wilegenuis · 04/05/10, 10:46 AM

Saw an old post from Shandara on 02/28/09 that "Troll Berserking added", therefore I guess I'm doing something wrong (I'm sure that I'm a troll as I stink and green).
The gear tab is pointing that my race is troll.
The shot rotation tab, does not suggest that I should use the Berserking ability, which seems strange to a troll.
So what am I doing wrong here?

Nakari · 04/05/10, 12:19 PM

Originally Posted by wilegenuis

Saw an old post from Shandara on 02/28/09 that "Troll Berserking added", therefore I guess I'm doing something wrong (I'm sure that I'm a troll as I stink and green).
The gear tab is pointing that my race is troll.
The shot rotation tab, does not suggest that I should use the Berserking ability, which seems strange to a troll.
So what am I doing wrong here?

The shot rotation tab doesn't "suggest" anything, you have to set up and tweak your rotation manually and add Berserking somewhere near the top of the list.

Cobrakai · 04/09/10, 1:13 PM

I've noticed that the proc for the Tier 10 Four piece might not have a 1 minute ICD as indicated on the spreadsheet. Just today while on the target dummies the set bonus procced 3 times within the span of my Hyperspeed Accelerator cooldown - this is behavior I noticed a while back but was not aware that the spreadsheet calculated a 1 minute time between procs value on the spreadsheet. Am I just crazy or has anyone else noticed this?

mako · 04/09/10, 5:05 PM

I believe you're mistaken. "Time between procs" is not the same as "Cooldown," the spreadsheet does not model either of the T10 bonuses as having an ICD, as both of their cooldowns have a value of 0.

Tsook · 04/10/10, 12:31 PM

Normal mode Plague-soaked Leather Leggings number of sockets and rating stats are incorrect in the sheet.
Sockets: Blue, Red, Red, +8 haste
Stats: 143 AP, 72 crit

The World of Warcraft Armory

Also, very minor, but a couple 10-man gloves appear to not be flagged heroic correctly, as they show up in the gear planner even if you deselect "hard modes" and "heroic raids."
Handgrips of Frost and Sleet (H)
Scourge Stranglers (H)

Mendrek · 04/10/10, 4:28 PM

(bold) Feature request:

Combat duration till sacrificing an initial GCD for HM and/or SrS (MM) benefits
[depending on current settings - talents, rotation, glyphs, buffs etc.]

snail · 04/14/10, 11:51 PM

Interesting anomaly which I suspect is a bug with the survival calculations regarding Black Arrow. When I create a survival gear set and shot selection I'm finding that the spreadsheet is dropping calculated dps by 4-600 when I include Black Arrow (at any priority).

Shot		 Priority	Cooldown	Mana	Damage	Time 	Ratio	Frequency	DPS	MPS
Explosive Shot		2	6.00		231	21464	1.65	30.22%	5.46		3930.81	34.93
Black Arrow		3	24.00		121	7131	1.65	6.67%	24.75		288.10	4.89
Multi-Shot		4	10.00		296	8511	1.65	14.29%	11.55		736.91	25.67
Serpent Sting		5	21.00		454	6784	1.65	7.69%	21.45		316.29	21.17
Steady Shot		10	1.54		165	5975	1.69	41.14%	4.11		1452.17	40.03

Total Hunter DPS = 10018.82 with a total of 11475 including the pet.

When I remove Black Arrow:

Shot Priority		Cooldown	Mana	Damage	Time Used	Ratio	Frequency	DPS	MPS
Explosive Shot	2	6.00		230	20712	1.65		40.00%	4.13		5021.07	34.85
Multi-Shot	4	10.00		296	8213	1.65		14.29%	11.55		711.09	25.61
Serpent Sting	5	21.00		454	6546	1.65		7.69%	21.45		305.19	21.17
Steady Shot	10	1.54		164	5766	1.69		38.02%	4.45		1295.13	36.91

Total Hunter DPS = 10511.66 with a total of 11967 including the pet.

I also note that this occurs even when I negate all of my armor penetration rating by adjusting it with a negative value in the gear sheet.

Is this accurate? Is black arrow a DPS loss. Given that the spreadsheet does not add in lock and load procs in its rotation test but still returns with the same results as above. I plan on running a mini test on a target dummy this weekend but I thought I'd post this here for comments from others in case this is something other people have noted (either on the spreadsheet or in game). Otherwise watch for an update with a test result in a few days.

Dch48 · 04/15/10, 7:33 PM

I was experiencing something similar when I plugged in the Oathbinder staff dropped from LK instead of Distant Land. The gear planner showed a significant dps increase but the gear tab showed a big loss. When I changed my settings to not use rotation test results instead of frequencies, the conflict disappeared and the staff shows the dps increase in both tabs. There seems to be something wrong in the calculations for the shot rotation.

In that same vein, I would like an option to set our own shot rotation independent of frequencies or rotation tests. I use Arcane shot in my MM rotation but I don't fire it every 6 seconds, I only fire it after Chimera and Aimed in a cast sequence macro. I would like there to be a way to test such macros against hand weaving to see how much of a difference it makes.

Eurytos · 04/16/10, 7:45 AM

Originally Posted by snail

Is this accurate? Is black arrow a DPS loss. Given that the spreadsheet does not add in lock and load procs in its rotation test but still returns with the same results as above. I plan on running a mini test on a target dummy this weekend but I thought I'd post this here for comments from others in case this is something other people have noted (either on the spreadsheet or in game). Otherwise watch for an update with a test result in a few days.

Most likely you have a 'Time to Wait' value on the rotation test tab. Tweak that and you will find Black Arrow is an increase again. Problem is your rotation is waiting for Black Arrow instead of casting another shot.

Jaffi · 04/16/10, 6:29 PM

Does the Spreadsheet model the manual refreshing of SrS when certain +% dmg buffs are up? I cannot find an option for that. Only "Carry oder %damage bonuses when refreshing SrS". But that's not what I mean, isnt it?

snail · 04/17/10, 12:24 AM

Originally Posted by Eurytos

Most likely you have a 'Time to Wait' value on the rotation test tab. Tweak that and you will find Black Arrow is an increase again. Problem is your rotation is waiting for Black Arrow instead of casting another shot.

Its set to 0ms.

davepoobond · 04/19/10, 4:41 PM

I've been experiencing some oddities with the spreadsheet today, Whispering Fanged Skull Heroic is being shown as a 3 dps loss compared to WFS normal. This changes when I equip WFS Heroic on my character then recalculate dps. If I Recalculate DPS in the gear planner with what I have equipped after this, WFS Heroic resumes its "3 dps less" position.

Any ideas on how to fix this or is it just a bug with the spreadsheet right now?

Greemar · 04/21/10, 2:01 AM

Hi,

A guild member of mine brought something to my attention today mid raid and I wanted to see if our spreadsheet accounted for it.

He was mentioning to me that at certain crit levels you would start to feel the effects of something called Crit depression. I believe it was being discussed in the rogue forums here at elitist jerks and can be found at this link:

Retesting hit table assumptions

What has me completely off guard is that I could be suffering from this w/o even knowing it and wanted to make sure the spreadsheet accounts for this.

Completely raid buffed I was sitting at 69.60% crit on my tooltip reading. My guildie told me to input a script that brought up a message in the chat pane that would list how much this crit depression is affecting you. Apparently, according to that script I was wasting roughly 6.6% crit because of the crit depression.

Here is the script that he told me to try out:

/script DEFAULT_CHAT_FRAME:AddMessage("Room below crit cap: "..100-(27-(GetCombatRatingBonus(6)+6))-(24)-(GetCritChance()+3))

He told me that if you get a NEGATIVE number, then that is the value in % that you are wasting. This has me super worried because all this time I could gem more hit to get the cap up and through this it could ultimately lead to a different spec since I'm 3/3 Focused Aim.

I figured I would post this here because my major concern is largely due to if this is accounted for in our spreadsheet and if I should even be worried about this at all. It was mentioned in that thread that I linked earlier that hunter mechanics are a bit different then rogue so it might not be a big deal for us but I figure some clarity from the Guru's here would be the best option!

Thanks in advance for all help in regards to this issue!

MizarAlcor · 04/21/10, 3:58 AM

Crit depression effect is basically a discrepancy between your displayed crit to your actual chance to critically hit a skull-level boss. This effect comes into play from the observation that the higher the level of a mob is, the higher the level of its "defense skill" with respect to your weapon skill.
An inverse implication of this effect can be seen from how tanks need to get more defense skill to be uncrittable against higher mob levels (at lvl 80 : 535 additional rating from gear vs lvl 82 mobs, 540 additional rating vs lvl 83 skull bosses). This is, inversely, caused by the increasing level of mob's "weapon skill" with respect to the tank's defense skill.

For melee DPS classes, especially dualwielders, this 4.8% has a significant implication. One general assumption of melee attacks is the application of a single die-roll system, meaning that melee attacks have a higher priority rolls which have to be passed before it can be determined to be a critical hit or an ordinary hit. Basically, white melee attacks have a priority to be a : miss-dodge-parry-glancing blow-block>critical hit>regular hit.

For clarity, consider this scenario of a newbish rogue who does not have any Hit, any Expertise, and attacks a skull-level boss from the FRONT :
The rogue does not have any Hit rating (+8% miss), dual wields (+19% miss), does not have any Expertise (+6.5% dodge), attacks a skull-boss from the front (+6.5% block, parry varies between bosses - say +14%). White melee attacks additionally suffer from 24% glancing blow chance.
However, despite being newbish, he has quite decent crit from gear, say 50% crit. However, the resolution of the attack table of his white damage goes as : 100% + 4.8% (crit suppression effect) - 8% (miss chance) - 19% (additional dual wield miss) - 6.5% (dodge) - 6.5% (block) - 14% (parry) - 24% (glancing blow) = 26.8% . Therefore, only 26.8% of his white attacks can be a crit or a hit. Because he has a 50% crit chance, all of his white attacks will be a crit, but he is "wasting" 50%-26.8%=23.2% crit chance from his gear/talent (it is not totally wasted because the rest of the crit still applies to his yellow attacks, but it is very very inefficient gearing-wise). 23.2% is essentially his current temporary crit-cap and no matter how high he tries to add more crit into his gear, his white attacks won't crit more unless :
- Attacking from behind (eliminating parry and block)
- Getting more Expertise (eliminating dodge)
- Getting more hit (eliminating the 8% hit chance and for dual-wielders, the additional 19% miss dual wield chance)
However, even after achieving all this, a player can't get rid of glancing blow chance. As such, a dual-wielder won't have any use of a crit chance higher than 104.8%-24% = 80.8% crit chance. However, as you can see, the presence of this 4.8% allows them to push the ceiling of their crit cap a bit higher.

Now for hunters, it is generally understood that we have a double die-roll system, meaning the game rolls a separate system for our attacks to miss and to crit. As such, crit chance doesn't interfere with miss chance. The implication for hunters, simply said, is no more than the fact that we will need an actual crit chance of 104.8% to achieve a full (100%) critical chance against a skull-level boss. This is the only cold, hard crit cap we have, as opposed to melees who have to be aware of their current crit-cap when shuffling gear around. As long as your inherent crit + raid buffs + talents (be aware that some talents buff particular shots only) + procs from talents and trinkets + glyphs doesn't exceed 104.8%, then no crit is "wasted" for a hunter.

I haven't tested it but based on the string that he gave you, seems like it is to help displaying your "wasted crit" mentioned above. As you have seen, it ONLY applies if you are a melee.

I apologize for the TLDR. Hope I don't get an infraction for going way out-of-topic :P .