WotLK DPS spreadsheet - Page 35

zigokubasi · 12/05/08, 8:57 PM

Originally Posted by Shandara

Update:

- Gear planner now has a 25-man and a 10-man filter
- Fixed some items which were attributed to the wrong instances on the Gear Planner
- Implemented Rapid Recuperation for hunter mana costs and pet focus costs during Rapid Fire
- You can now hand adjust the pet crit%/AP and %damage modifiers on the gear page
- Added option to use the new assumed 8% hit cap on bosses on the Settings tab (default= Yes)
- Fixed Pawn string. Gems with +AP will now add dps from AP correctly
- Careful Aim is now more accurate
- Added Fel Intelligence to buffs and fixed various buffs to be more in-line with the wotLK talents (exported buff profiles will fail to load, sorry)
- Added an option to use Aspect of the Beast during Bestial Wrath, this will reduce Hawk uptime
- Added Enchanted Tear/Pearl gems
- Various fixes to missing socket bonuses

I'm impressed. You're going to burn out releasing updates this quickly, but I have to say I really appreciate the effort you're putting into this. I can speak for all ZERG's hunters when I say "thank you".

Rokh · 12/06/08, 4:40 AM

Originally Posted by Lufan

I am having some confusion with 'Ranged Weapons' button. I used to load gear off Armory as well my talents. Today, for the first time, I ran the Ranged button. After checking the thread in more detailed, the only information I could find in regards to that are the following:

I still don't quite understand it. After running the ranged weapon button, some of the items that I believe are clearly better is no longer the case. I am hit capped and I have set that on the top right hand side of the gear planner tab, but some items that are clearly superior from my stand point is no longer the case. Here are some examples:

[Favor of the Dragon Queen] beats [Titanium Impact Choker] by 3 Delta.
[Titanium Impact Band] beats [Ring of Invincibility] by 7.64 Delta.
[Blackened Naaru Sliver] beats [Mirror of Truth] by almost 20 Delta.
[Armguard of the Tower Archer] beats [Slime Stream Bands] by almost 17 Delta.
[Sovereign's Belt] beats [Spectral Rider's Girdle] by almost 10 Delta.

I am just confused and any assistance is greatly appreciated.

This can be easily replicated by simply loading my Armory Profile (Lufann, Eredar, US), load my talents, then run the 'Ranged Weapon' button on the gear planner tab.

Make sure you're recalculating stat values each time you switch gear; without that, those numbers in the gear planner will be significantly off.

Shandara · 12/06/08, 4:50 AM

Originally Posted by Anak

I realize this is slightly out-of-date now, but when I imported from 73c to 73d, I lost about 250 DPS. I finally tracked it down to an increase in base stats and mana at 80, meaning that Steadyshot was relatively much more expensive, so I was spending more time in AotV. I didn't notice this in the change notes, and was wondering if the base stats @ 80 are correct as of 73d.

Anak

@Anak:
A lot of people have PM'ed me the base stats for their race at level 80. With the use of Armory I verified and entered these values. Not all races have been done yet.

If in doubt use Night Elf as a race (and hand-adjust any +crit bonus your race has) because I paid very close attention to those stats as I levelled.

The 4-piece T7 bonus is currently only used when you select 'Viper' as your aspect. Since the effect depends on your time spent in viper and the time spent in Viper depends on your auto-shot it leads to a circular calculation when I adjust the effect currently. I have to find some other way of calculating it first.

@Lufann:
I've been trying to replicate this, but I have failed so far. Using the "level 80 raid buffs" profile, your talents and gear and for the rest no changes.

I hit the CalcAttributes button on the Overview page and then Sort the gear planner. Then I run the Ranged Weapon button. I haven't changed any other settings from the defaults. "Assumme 100% hit" is set to "Yes" on the Gear Planner.

* Favor of the Dragon Queen is better than Titanium Impact Choker.
This one is, in my opinion, not surprising. The stats on the Favor are just much better.
* Titanium Impact band loses to Ring of Invincibility.
With Rings it is a bit tricky. The sorting is based on the delta DPS from the first (top) ring slot. Your Surge-Needle Ring is best-in-slot for that at the moment, so both represent a DPS loss. Compared to your Signet of the Edward the Odd both are an upgrade, but the Ring of Invincibility is, again, the best. Looking at the stats I can't but agree.
* Blackened Naaru Sliver loses to Mirror of Truth
Compared to the Mirror, the Sliver is almost a 20 DPS loss
* Slime Stream Bands beat Armguards of the Tower by 1 DPS
Really close, which is due to you being hit-capped
* Spectral Rider's Belt beats Sovereign's Belt by 25 DPS
This is what'd you expect

So I'm not sure how you got the results you had.

Shandara · 12/06/08, 5:48 AM

Quick update:

- Accuracy enchant fixed
- Corrected pet +hit gained from hunter when using the new assumed 8% hit cap
- Raging Construct bands now have +18 hit
- Added Mammoth Meal food (+60 AP)

KergeKacsa · 12/06/08, 10:21 AM

There is a new bug:
If you select untalented Greater Blessing of Kings in Pet buffs, it does nothing, no 550 AP.

dragoonvengance · 12/07/08, 11:17 AM

Shandara,

Over in the Simple Questions thread

Originally Posted by arison

It double dips from your 10%. Apparently pets get your melee AP not ranged AP (are there any items that give separate AP these days?). So, if before, your pet gained 22% of your AP (standard forumla):

Pet_AP = 0.22 * Your_Melee_AP

Now it is

Pet_AP = 1.1 * (0.22 * 1.1 * Your_Melee_AP)

Which ends up being 1.21 * 0.22 * Your_Melee_AP, or, a 21% bonus.

If this is the case could you modify the spreadsheet to calculate pet RAP off of melee rap? So we can correctly model Aspect of the Beast. After that with the wonderful power of the spreadsheet we can probably quite alot of the discussions of Beast vs DragonHawk.

Again thank you for the great work on the sheet.

dragoonvengance · 12/07/08, 12:31 PM

*Bug
Cobra Reflexes - The other pet trees that are not active still effect the Cobra Reflexes dmg reduction, but not the Speed.

aka if I have a tenacity pet with 0/2 in CR and have the fer tree with 2/2.
I get speed increase from CR of 100% *correct
I get Dmg redunction from CR of 85%.

If i remove the talents out of the fer tree then it goes to 100% which is correct.

Minor bug, but did confuse me for a few mins while playing with Cobra Reflexes

dragoonvengance · 12/07/08, 12:35 PM

Yet another question.
I thought Cobra Reflexes talent was just a speed increase and the dmg redunction would offset it equally to force it to cause no DPS gain. I thought the only point of CR was to increase uptime of Frenzy. The spreadsheet is showing 110dps gain when comparing CR 0/2 vs CR 2/2. With 5 points in Frenzy showing a uptime of 99.96% vs 99.9%

Is CR really that large of a DPS gain? If so I can't see anyone not putting 2/2 in CR regardless of how many points you have in frenzy.

Shandara · 12/07/08, 1:24 PM

Originally Posted by dragoonvengance

Yet another question.
I thought Cobra Reflexes talent was just a speed increase and the dmg redunction would offset it equally to force it to cause no DPS gain. I thought the only point of CR was to increase uptime of Frenzy. The spreadsheet is showing 110dps gain when comparing CR 0/2 vs CR 2/2. With 5 points in Frenzy showing a uptime of 99.96% vs 99.9%

Is CR really that large of a DPS gain? If so I can't see anyone not putting 2/2 in CR regardless of how many points you have in frenzy.

Cobra Reflexes is supposed to be a net DPS gain. This was proven a long time ago, but I haven't personally checked whether it's still so in WotLK.

Thelastdeadmouse · 12/07/08, 4:09 PM

I can't get on to check atm, but I'm about 98% sure that CR is still a increase in the pet window paper doll DPS. I remember checking when I speced a pet with the new talent trees, but there is a slim chance that I'm thinking of the beta, not necessarily live.

dragoonvengance · 12/07/08, 4:45 PM

No problem I was just entirely unaware of this fact.

sihyunie · 12/07/08, 9:00 PM

Originally Posted by dragoonvengance

Shandara,

Over in the Simple Questions thread

Originally Posted by arison

It double dips from your 10%. Apparently pets get your melee AP not ranged AP (are there any items that give separate AP these days?). So, if before, your pet gained 22% of your AP (standard forumla):

Pet_AP = 0.22 * Your_Melee_AP

Now it is

Pet_AP = 1.1 * (0.22 * 1.1 * Your_Melee_AP)

Which ends up being 1.21 * 0.22 * Your_Melee_AP, or, a 21% bonus.

If this is the case could you modify the spreadsheet to calculate pet RAP off of melee rap? So we can correctly model Aspect of the Beast. After that with the wonderful power of the spreadsheet we can probably quite alot of the discussions of Beast vs DragonHawk.

Again thank you for the great work on the sheet.

So I believe Aspect of the Dragonhawk increases RAP only. When you turn the aspect on and off, pet ap changes (when I changed from Dragonhawk to Beast, my pet ap skyrockets and then comes back down a bit later when Dragonhawk ap is correctly removed). Also, 1 agility give 1 RAP and some crit, so some green item w/ only agility can be used for the testing.
Above math does seem very convincing tho. Is it possible that pet gains % of different AP depending on your aspect?

On a side note, is there any way to know how much 1 dps on a ranged weapon is worth compared to other stats?

KraxisSingular · 12/08/08, 1:21 AM

Originally Posted by sihyunie

So I believe Aspect of the Dragonhawk increases RAP only. When you turn the aspect on and off, pet ap changes (when I changed from Dragonhawk to Beast, my pet ap skyrockets and then comes back down a bit later when Dragonhawk ap is correctly removed). Also, 1 agility give 1 RAP and some crit, so some green item w/ only agility can be used for the testing.
Above math does seem very convincing tho. Is it possible that pet gains % of different AP depending on your aspect?

On a side note, is there any way to know how much 1 dps on a ranged weapon is worth compared to other stats?

Very much agreed on the convincing results there. It matches the boost we see in pets.

I suppose some Strength gear vs Agi gear could effectively confirm or disprove this (Strength still adds 1 melee AP).

• Intermission · 12/08/08, 2:05 AM

Is there an easy way to simultaneously manage gear/talents for both a Marks and a BM spec? Maybe I'm missing something, but it seems like a lot of processes to swap between the two. The easiest way looks like making two copies of the file and just managing each one.

What I'm trying to do:

I play as BM for 25 mans (2 nights a week), and Marks for 5-10 mans and regular day to day stuff. I would like to know what gear is best for each spec, in addition to fine tuning of talents/glyphs for each spec, different raid buffs, etc. So I'm not really comparing each spec to each other, but rather comparing individual things within each spec.

The profile setting on the gear tab does not seem to apply to the Shot Rotation, Talent Spec, Buffs, etc tabs. So to muck around with each spec, I'd need to redo my shot rotation, etc.

Lactose · 12/08/08, 3:49 AM

The crit depression against boss level targets seems to be 4.80%, not the 0.60% we're currently using.
This is according to testing made by Rogues, and seems to match up with some other test results here, including ones made by Hunters.
It might be worth looking into, and possibly updating the spreadsheet to account for this.

Vulajin's post on the issue.

Shandara · 12/08/08, 5:31 AM

Originally Posted by Intermission

Is there an easy way to simultaneously manage gear/talents for both a Marks and a BM spec? Maybe I'm missing something, but it seems like a lot of processes to swap between the two. The easiest way looks like making two copies of the file and just managing each one.

What I'm trying to do:

I play as BM for 25 mans (2 nights a week), and Marks for 5-10 mans and regular day to day stuff. I would like to know what gear is best for each spec, in addition to fine tuning of talents/glyphs for each spec, different raid buffs, etc. So I'm not really comparing each spec to each other, but rather comparing individual things within each spec.

The profile setting on the gear tab does not seem to apply to the Shot Rotation, Talent Spec, Buffs, etc tabs. So to muck around with each spec, I'd need to redo my shot rotation, etc.

The saving of profiles saves the following things:
1) Gear
2) Settings tab
3) Shot Rotation
4) Pet Rotation and settings
5) Talent Spec

It does not save which Buff profile you selected or any stored talent specs/buff profiles.

Actually you do have a point and I should save the currently selected buffs with the player profile.

Thelastdeadmouse · 12/08/08, 5:58 AM

Perhaps a tab similar to the gear planning tab could be added but for enchants and gems, where the options available will have their dps shown and ranked. With all the new hit rating enchants I find myself switching hit enchants and gems around with crit/AP/Agi enchants and gems nearly every time I change my gear trying to keep close to the hit cap. It would have the top 4 or 5 enchants for each slot (I really doubt more than that would be necessary) and then a chart for each color gems with check boxes for gem quality.

• Intermission · 12/08/08, 9:04 AM

Originally Posted by Shandara

The saving of profiles saves the following things:
1) Gear
2) Settings tab
3) Shot Rotation
4) Pet Rotation and settings
5) Talent Spec

It does not save which Buff profile you selected or any stored talent specs/buff profiles.

Actually you do have a point and I should save the currently selected buffs with the player profile.

Oh so it saves the current selected stuff and adds it to the profile list info panel thing. I see.

I was sorta hoping that flipping the profile switch from one to another would basically be like swapping between two separate workbooks. EG, when you change from the BM profile to the Marks profile, the talents change themselves, shot rotation changes itself, etc.

As I said though, it's probably a lot easier just to use two copies. I just wanted to make sure I wasnt missing a feature out of ignorance.

Xoran · 12/08/08, 10:25 AM

Manaregen:

I'm a long-time user of the spreadsheet (many thanks to Shandara for doing so much work on this recently) and by currently evaluating my spec, I noticed that speccing out of Invigoration results in a dps loss, but reading these forum, most people claim that you don't need it for 25-mans. So yesterday was my first time at Patchwerk and I finished the fight with almost full mana. Looking at the WWS, it shows Judgment of Wisdom alone restoring 24k mana over the 248s the fight took. This is something like 5 times the amount asumed in the spreadsheet, thus overvalueing talentpoints spend in Invigoration.

Vaxum · 12/08/08, 3:26 PM

Couple bug reports/suggestions:

Grotesque Handgrips are missing a yellow socket. Oddly enough, the correct socket bonus is there - just not the socket itself.
Darkmoon Card - Greatness isn't importing from the Armory. Character-sheet.xml has has the right ItemID (44253) so this looks like a spreadsheet bug.
Default Zoom Level got reset to Custom: 115% - please set back to 100% for those of us on smaller monitors.
Please save Hand Adjust values with the profile. Hand adjust is useful for correcting stat bugs in gear/sockets, but when swapping gearsets it is painful & easy to forget to undo/redo adjusts.

dlanod · 12/08/08, 5:27 PM

Originally Posted by Thelastdeadmouse

Perhaps a tab similar to the gear planning tab could be added but for enchants and gems, where the options available will have their dps shown and ranked. With all the new hit rating enchants I find myself switching hit enchants and gems around with crit/AP/Agi enchants and gems nearly every time I change my gear trying to keep close to the hit cap. It would have the top 4 or 5 enchants for each slot (I really doubt more than that would be necessary) and then a chart for each color gems with check boxes for gem quality.

Seconded if possible please. I also noticed that on the Settings tab, the Custom Target Armor "default" value is 138083 instead of 13083 that is on the Overview tab. I'm guessing this isn't actually used anywhere and is just a typo but I'm just noting it here for posterity's sake.

Halfdann · 12/08/08, 5:46 PM

Originally Posted by Intermission

I have also been getting this error repeatedly for days. Some screenies are attached.

Also, the follow slots were not filled in by the import, if this also helps you diagnose the problem:
Main Hand
Off Hand
Back
Wrist
Feet
Rings
Trinkets
Ranged Weapon

Thanks!

edit: to clarify, when I hit Debug on that popup box, I see a page with code with that text highlighted.

Puts on programmer hat.
You're trying to perform an operation on a non-existent object. Something didn't return or instantiate from a function or sub call, and a subsequent operation is trying to use that missing object.

Now, specifically WHAT that operation is, dunno, never ran into it here at work where I have VB and VC running.

Shandara · 12/08/08, 6:34 PM

Originally Posted by Halfdann

Puts on programmer hat.
You're trying to perform an operation on a non-existent object. Something didn't return or instantiate from a function or sub call, and a subsequent operation is trying to use that missing object.

Now, specifically WHAT that operation is, dunno, never ran into it here at work where I have VB and VC running.

It usually the Armory not returning what it is supposed to. Or timing out.

KraxisSingular · 12/08/08, 6:34 PM

Shandara, does the currently implemented sheet take into account that Aspect of the Beast actually gives 21% boost, and from what I hear the Beast Glyph gives 4% boost on that? I can't seem to find the pet AP.

dragoonvengance · 12/08/08, 6:38 PM

Originally Posted by KraxisSingular

Shandara, does the currently implemented sheet take into account that Aspect of the Beast actually gives 21% boost, and from what I hear the Beast Glyph gives 4% boost on that? I can't seem to find the pet AP.

I think Shandara has been ignoring this since no one has sat down and confirmed exactly what the mechanics are. I'll sit down and mess with some thigns and see if i can pin down exactly what's going on.