WotLK DPS spreadsheet - Page 37

KraxisSingular · 11/10/08, 7:54 AM

Aimed was supposed to have been normalized long ago, in fact I think it was.

However Multi never was. Given that Aimed is practically just Multi on one target with a debuff and cost less, I think what Blizzard did was a copy-paste of the Multi calculation for damage and then add the Aimed differences. So Aimed is now not normalized.
Not that I mind since Aimed needs to do as much damage as Multi obviously, or else it is practically pointless.

Lactose · 11/10/08, 9:06 AM

Originally Posted by - World of Warcraft Client Patch 1.10.0 (2006-03-28)

- Multi-Shot - This ability now has its attack power normalized the same as melee instant attacks. This means that the attack power contribution from all ranged weapons will be the same, no matter what their speed. All weapons will contribute attack power as if they were 2.8 speed. Weapons slower than 2.8 speed will do slightly less damage than previously; weapons faster than 2.8 speed will do slightly more damage.

- Aimed Shot - This ability now has its attack power normalized the same as melee instant attacks. This means that the attack power contribution from all ranged weapons will be the same, no matter what their speed. All weapons will contribute attack power as if they were 2.8 speed. Weapons slower than 2.8 speed will do slightly less damage than previously; weapons faster than 2.8 speed will do slightly more damage.

Bold emphasis my own.

Ammo and weapon components should be unnormalized for Aimed Shot and Multi-Shot.

I would suggest checking the Improved Tracking modifier (didn't see it listed in your tests) - I remember there being some reports that the +crit damage bonus (from the Slaying talents) was still in effect. Although I can't remember any evidence put forth, it might be worth looking into, 1 talent invested at a time.

Shandara · 11/10/08, 9:14 AM

Originally Posted by Lactose

Bold emphasis my own.

Ammo and weapon components should be unnormalized for Aimed Shot and Multi-Shot.

I would suggest checking the Improved Tracking modifier (didn't see it listed in your tests) - I remember there being some reports that the +crit damage bonus (from the Slaying talents) was still in effect. Although I can't remember any evidence put forth, it might be worth looking into, 1 talent invested at a time.

I didn't spec any points into BM or SV trees while doing these tests, but it might worth checking if this supposed bug is present.

- Added +20 hit rating glove enchant and renamed the +15 hit rating
- Fixed 'per item budget' rating for Mp5
- Replenishment on the buff tab now has an 'uptime' selector
- Implemented Indorra's new Hunting Party math
- Adjusted Thunderstomp according to my testing
- Fixed some buff stacking to be more clear
- Cleaned up most shot calculations to be more alike and use the same logic
- Fixed a bug with Marked for Death crit damage bonus
- adjusted Aimed/Multi Shot to use non-normalized weapon damage and ammo damage according to my testing
- CS-Serpent now crits with full Mortal Shots/RED bonus
- If you use Chimera Shot to refresh serpent sting, the calculations will now assume you used your trinket's on-use +AP procs beforehand and/or Blood Fury (orc racial) to boost the damage. 
- Blood Fury off the GCD and no longer reset by Readiness

Uploaded the version I used to test and which incorporates my various fixes.

jpwkeeper · 11/10/08, 3:06 PM

I'd like to request a very simple feature be added to this amazing spreadsheet.

The Gear Planner page only shows the top 10. Many who use this spreadsheet don't have gear that fall into that range, especially when looking for WoLK upgrades.

I'd like to propose that this page be re-structures so that the items are side-by-side instead of stacked to fit on one page and/or split into multiple tabs, and the list be expanded to be 100-200 or whatever's appropriate.

I did this with the unlocked version of the spreadsheet and, with the exception of automatic gear selection which broke, it was a very easy thing to do.

alienangel · 11/10/08, 7:09 PM

Hi Shandara,

Downloaded and configured 77a. Nearly everything matches up neatly with tests results for me now, just the following:

i. steady shot crits are slightly higher than predicted as you noticed (~6 damage for me against rats)
ii. CS-S values are still completely off. Predicted 793/1886, observed 810/1928

I'll go try shooting some trackable things now to see how the Imp Tracking is holding out.

Originally Posted by KraxisSingular

Aimed was supposed to have been normalized long ago, in fact I think it was.

However Multi never was. Given that Aimed is practically just Multi on one target with a debuff and cost less, I think what Blizzard did was a copy-paste of the Multi calculation for damage and then add the Aimed differences. So Aimed is now not normalized.
Not that I mind since Aimed needs to do as much damage as Multi obviously, or else it is practically pointless.

I think you're mixing up weapon speed normalization with weapon DPS normalization. Aimed and Multi were both "normalized" at the same time, in exactly the same way - the AP contribution for them was normalized to that of a specific weapon speed, solely so that a 3.4 speed crossbow from BWL didn't become the best ranged weapon until TBC (and a level 30 green 3.4 didn't become the best ranged weapon until BWL) - their ammo and weapon dps was left untouched.

Steadyshot was the first (and I think still the only) attack that is perfectly normalized to weapon DPS.

Originally Posted by Shandara

These 4 use the same calculations, except for the strange fact AP contribution is normalized for Multi/Aimed/Chimera but not for auto

Again, this is a strange thing to say ^^; AP on autoshot can't be normalized, or it would break the concept of autoattack dps. Only specials can be normalized like that, since they shouldn't be able to cheat the AP->DPS conversion by using a really slow attack speed.

alienangel · 11/10/08, 7:26 PM

Think I can see where the CS-S discrepancy is still coming in:

Predicted Serpent Sting damage (In the Serpent Sting section): 2023
Observed Serpent Sting damage on marked target: 2026 (4 x 338 + 2x 337)

Serpent Sting damage used in the CS-S calculation: 1983

If the 2023 calculated earlier is used in the CS-S calculation, the results are much closer to what I'm seeing in game.

edit:

Results are in on Imp Tracking tests, it seems to be calculating correctly:

Predicted Autoshot on level 8 Ice Claw Bears with 112 armor: 738.5 / 1521.2
Observed Autoshots: 739/1521

Predicted Aimedshot on 112 armor bear: 1231 / 3059 (needed to remove talents from Imp Steady in spreadsheet to stop it averaging that in).
Observed Aimed: 1232 / 3058

Predicted Chimera on random level 8 beasts: 1089 / 2704
Observed Chimera: 1089 / 2704-2705

That's with track beasts, marked for death, hunter's mark, RED, FF, RWS, and some passive ArP

Cranch · 11/11/08, 1:25 AM

Originally Posted by jpwkeeper

I'd like to request a very simple feature be added to this amazing spreadsheet.

The Gear Planner page only shows the top 10. Many who use this spreadsheet don't have gear that fall into that range, especially when looking for WoLK upgrades.

I'd like to propose that this page be re-structures so that the items are side-by-side instead of stacked to fit on one page and/or split into multiple tabs, and the list be expanded to be 100-200 or whatever's appropriate.

I did this with the unlocked version of the spreadsheet and, with the exception of automatic gear selection which broke, it was a very easy thing to do.

I'd make a different suggestion. Add a 11th line that contains your current gear and the corresponding delta dps (for each slot.) It's ok if my gear appears twice. That way I can select say just LK instances and still easily see which of these would be an upgrade. In other words, the only change needed (I suggest) in gear planner is to always show your current gear on a 11th line.

jpwkeeper · 11/11/08, 7:34 AM

Originally Posted by Cranch

I'd make a different suggestion. Add a 11th line that contains your current gear and the corresponding delta dps (for each slot.) It's ok if my gear appears twice. That way I can select say just LK instances and still easily see which of these would be an upgrade. In other words, the only change needed (I suggest) in gear planner is to always show your current gear on a 11th line.

While that would be nice, it's not optimal. The only reason I disagree with you is that you can't see easier to obtain upgrades over your current gear. This will be especially crucial to hunters attempting to gear up for Naxx. Just throw the floodgates open I say and show the entire list. The full list is there in a hidden tab; all this page does is reference it.

Shandara · 11/11/08, 7:53 AM

Originally Posted by jpwkeeper

While that would be nice, it's not optimal. The only reason I disagree with you is that you can't see easier to obtain upgrades over your current gear. This will be especially crucial to hunters attempting to gear up for Naxx. Just throw the floodgates open I say and show the entire list. The full list is there in a hidden tab; all this page does is reference it.

It is what the different instance/origin selectors are for, so you can limit what you want to see.

I think the issue is a bit overstated, if you're working in a tier of instances (say for instance t4 in BC), the amount of items isn't arbitrarily large. It is, on the other hand, rather small. Can you name more than 10 belts available to people dropping in t4 content?

Possibly I could expand the selectors a bit more, but I fully expect people to click away the 'WotLK 5-man' selector once they start raiding tier8+ because that stage is past you by then (since you have completed tier7 content by then).

samfisher · 11/11/08, 9:22 AM

Hmm I believe there is an error in the spreadsheet's Hit calculation? I'm over hit cap on a lvl 73 but it still says I only have 97.73% to hit on the gear tab, and on the calculations tab, under Hit Chance it says Tooltip Value 6.73%. Didn't use to be like this with v77 =(

Is this a bug or is it something else I'm doing wrong?

Shandara · 11/11/08, 11:49 AM

Originally Posted by samfisher

Hmm I believe there is an error in the spreadsheet's Hit calculation? I'm over hit cap on a lvl 73 but it still says I only have 97.73% to hit on the gear tab, and on the calculations tab, under Hit Chance it says Tooltip Value 6.73%. Didn't use to be like this with v77 =(

Is this a bug or is it something else I'm doing wrong?

I had left a hand-adjusted -50 hit rating on the gear tab which I didn't clear out before uploading it. It's most likely that.

Whitefyst · 11/11/08, 1:01 PM

Since WoTLK is starting this week, I have finally started to care about what my level 80 needs will be. While looking things over for a level 80 character, I was a little shocked by the hit rating requirement. It does not seem to match up from what I expected.

The spreadsheet seems to indicate that I will need 410 hit rating to hit a level 83 target.

With assuming 9% hit required and 37 hit rating per percent, I come out with 333 hit rating required for a hunter without Focused Aim and 222 hit rating for a hunter with Focused Aim.

In addition, I would expect with no hit rating to have a 91% chance to hit without Focused Aim and 94% with it, but the spreadsheet provides 74% meaning that 410/26 = 15.77 hit rating per 1% hit coefficient that is active today.

This seems like an error to me. If it is not, can you please educate me on any misunderstanding or incorrect spreadsheet settings I may have.

Keep up the great work! Really appreciate having this resource.

Shandara · 11/11/08, 1:08 PM

Originally Posted by Whitefyst

Since WoTLK is starting this week, I have finally started to care about what my level 80 needs will be. While looking things over for a level 80 character, I was a little shocked by the hit rating requirement. It does not seem to match up from what I expected.

The spreadsheet seems to indicate that I will need 410 hit rating to hit a level 83 target.

With assuming 9% hit required and 37 hit rating per percent, I come out with 333 hit rating required for a hunter without Focused Aim and 222 hit rating for a hunter with Focused Aim.

In addition, I would expect with no hit rating to have a 91% chance to hit without Focused Aim and 94% with it, but the spreadsheet provides 74% meaning that 410/26 = 15.77 hit rating per 1% hit coefficient that is active today.

This seems like an error to me. If it is not, can you please educate me on any misunderstanding or incorrect spreadsheet settings I may have.

Keep up the great work! Really appreciate having this resource.

I'm not sure what you are doing. When I load the "Shandara as BM - Raid Buffed" level 80 profile, she's at exactly 296 hit rating vs a level 83 and ends up at 100,03% to hit.

If you can, upload the sheet somewhere so I can look at it. This is a first that someone has managed to make the sheet bug out on the hit rating.

Whitefyst · 11/11/08, 1:25 PM

Originally Posted by Shandara

I'm not sure what you are doing. When I load the "Shandara as BM - Raid Buffed" level 80 profile, she's at exactly 296 hit rating vs a level 83 and ends up at 100,03% to hit.

If you can, upload the sheet somewhere so I can look at it. This is a first that someone has managed to make the sheet bug out on the hit rating.

I found the problem. I figured that you must have a setting someplace to switch between level 70 and level 80 formulas. I neither saw anything for this on the Settings tab nor did entering 80 talent points cause the switch. Then it dawned on me, you now have the level setting on B10 of the Overview tab. I updated that to level 80, and everything worked out much better. So is the new hit rating coefficient around 32.83 then?

mersenne · 11/11/08, 3:24 PM

Originally Posted by Whitefyst

I found the problem. I figured that you must have a setting someplace to switch between level 70 and level 80 formulas. I neither saw anything for this on the Settings tab nor did entering 80 talent points cause the switch. Then it dawned on me, you now have the level setting on B10 of the Overview tab. I updated that to level 80, and everything worked out much better. So is the new hit rating coefficient around 32.83 then?

32.79 per +1% hit chance. Whitetooth derived the new rating conversions already:
http://elitistjerks.com/f31/t29453-c...gs_level_80_a/