WotLK DPS spreadsheet - Page 4

Shandara · 08/28/08, 8:53 AM

Update:

- Sniper Training now increases damage of Aimed/Steady/Explosive by 2%/4%/6%
- Chimera Shot now deals nature damage (ignores armor and is improved by +nature damage debuffs), Improved SS now also affects the sting part of the damage
- Re-implemented Wild Quiver according to Ravenfire's calculations
- added some wotLK mined trinkets
- Glyph of Steady Shot only affects steady shot if there's Serpent Sting in your rotation now
- Pet Frenzy now differentiates between different critrates for specials and melee hits
- Dwarf level 80 has the correct wotLK beta stats, so use that to get a correct impression of mana costs/longevity

Chimera Shot ignoring armor and being boosted by +nature damage debuffs on the boss makes it gain the lead yet again. Or would have, depending on what sort of buffs you have. BM gets a huge boost out of having a MM hunter in the party and a SV hunter in the raid, but with Blizzard assuring us every class will have 2.5 raid slots, that's a bit problematic.

SV hunter raid damage seems a bit low to me, but we're not counting any raid benefits and that'd most likely make up the difference by a big margin.

I still don't have level 80 stats for most races (or level 71-79 for that matter) except dwarves.

Making myself into a dwarf the mana costs for abilities finally take real shape and we can make a more accurate judgement of longevity and sustainability.

From the Hunter WotLK thread I've set the JoW proc amount to about 250 per proc (since that was what a sunwell equipped paladin would get according to the poster). Real level 80 raid values will probably be higher, but only MM spec'ed hunters really have to worry about mana it seems, both BM and SV will probably have enough, even without using a potion.

Ebonleaf · 08/29/08, 11:59 AM

I've noticed that Animal Handler doesn't raise your overall dps when you put the 2nd point into it, but when you manually adjust your hit it does go up. And did our hit cap actually raise that much?

Shandara · 08/29/08, 12:37 PM

Originally Posted by Ebonleaf

I've noticed that Animal Handler doesn't raise your overall dps when you put the 2nd point into it, but when you manually adjust your hit it does go up. And did our hit cap actually raise that much?

We need roughly double the hit rating to get the same % (EDIT: at level 80 of course)

I'm assuming that hunter +hit is transferred to the pet at the moment, so the pet should be nearly hitcapped with or without animal handler. This is I was told was going to happen, I have no idea whether pet scaling is actually like that in beta at the moment.

Ebonleaf · 08/29/08, 1:19 PM

Yea, i'm in the beta and I can't tell for sure if thats the case. I guess i could log it when my pet is attacking and do a wws to see.

Shandara · 08/30/08, 2:15 PM

Update

- Lock and Load back to 5/10/15% proc chance off stings
- Hunter's Mark now only increases hunter RAP (and doesn't stack ) and Expose Weakness as well (i.e. no pet AP)
- Improved Hunter's Mark increases HM by 10/20/30%
- Trueshot Aura increases RAP by 10%, Glyph works now as well
- Trueshot Aura, Unleashed Rage and Abomination's Might are now mutually exclusive
- Combat Experience now increases agility by 3/6% instead of 1/2%
- Improved Arcane Shot now only 3 talent points and increases damage by 5/10/15%
- Added Rhino's Stampede ability (although it doesn't do anything DPS-wise, it's just selectable)
- Added new Glyphs
- Chimera Shot's sting proc effect now is affected separatedly by damage adjustments (crit + modifiers)
- Ferocious inspiration and Swift Retribution are now mutually exclusive
- Blood Pact and Commanding Shout are now mutually exclusive (no data on Blood Pact Health bonus though)
- Added Rank 7 Strength of Earth totem (assumed to be same as DK Horn of Winter with talents, i.e. 135 base, 155 talented)
- Changed Greater Blessing of Might +AP values to match battleshout
- Added new LW bracer enchants (stamina/AP)
- Improved Faerie Fire no longer increases +hit to target
- Curse of Elements and Earth and Moon no longer stack and both increase spell damage against targets by 13%. Earth and Moon no longer has stacks
- Cobra Strikes now only works if you have the talent
- Added Spiced Mammoth treats to pet snacks
- Winter's Chill and Improved Scorch buffs removed as they will increase spell crit against target instead of damage

Cranch · 08/30/08, 11:37 PM

Link's still giving v61 of the spreadsheet.

By the way, thanks for the fast update!!

*edit* ya, it was my browser cache as well (firefox.)

Shandara · 08/31/08, 3:40 AM

Originally Posted by Cranch

Link's still giving v61 of the spreadsheet.

By the way, thanks for the fast update!!

It should have the V62 now.

Edit: Or at least I re-uploaded the correct version but it's still giving me v61.. maybe some caching issue.
Edit2: Cleared my browser cache and it's updated now.

Stinkerbelle · 09/01/08, 2:39 AM

Thanks for taking on this task, Shandara. I'm not on beta, but am using the spreadsheet to try to find optimal raid talent choices at level 70 for when 3.0x goes live. (BM was way ahead on version 60, but on version 62 MM has pulled ahead by ~500 DPS.)

I realize the spreadsheet is now targeted at WOTLK, but during the weeks/months after 3.0, there is going to be keen interest among non-beta hunters about how to adjust to the new talents and mechanics. At the moment there are some parts of the spreadsheet that do not permit adjustment to level-70 spells or buffs. If you'd be willing to adjust those, I think people will find it very helpful once 3.0x goes live.

These are the cells I've noticed could not be adjusted to level 70 values:

Buffs/Debuffs
-Greater BoM: Rank 2 not available in drop-down menu
-Sunder Armor: Locked at level 80 values

Pet
-Spell ranks locked at level 80

You might even consider auto-limiting ranks based on character level, depending on how much work you want to give yourself(!)

************

Also, I'd love to be able to see how some of the weapon buffs should impact dps: weightstones, sharpening stones, and righteous weapon coating. I'm still not sure whether I'm better off with Shivering Felspine or a combination of one-handers.

Sympa · 09/01/08, 3:18 AM

Originally Posted by Stinkerbelle

Thanks for taking on this task, Shandara. I'm not on beta, but am using the spreadsheet to try to find optimal raid talent choices at level 70 for when 3.0x goes live. (BM was way ahead on version 60, but on version 62 MM has pulled ahead by ~500 DPS.)

I realize the spreadsheet is now targeted at WOTLK, but during the weeks/months after 3.0, there is going to be keen interest among non-beta hunters about how to adjust to the new talents and mechanics. At the moment there are some parts of the spreadsheet that do not permit adjustment to level-70 spells or buffs. If you'd be willing to adjust those, I think people will find it very helpful once 3.0x goes live.

These are the cells I've noticed could not be adjusted to level 70 values:

Buffs/Debuffs
-Greater BoM: Rank 2 not available in drop-down menu
-Sunder Armor: Locked at level 80 values

Pet
-Spell ranks locked at level 80

You might even consider auto-limiting ranks based on character level, depending on how much work you want to give yourself(!)

************

Also, I'd love to be able to see how some of the weapon buffs should impact dps: weightstones, sharpening stones, and righteous weapon coating. I'm still not sure whether I'm better off with Shivering Felspine or a combination of one-handers.

None of additions you've mentioned will matter in WoTLK. The entire point of the spreadsheet is to model a WoTLK raiding environment. IE it would be pointless to include the changes you have mentioned.

Stinkerbelle · 09/01/08, 4:28 AM

Originally Posted by Sympa

None of additions you've mentioned will matter in WoTLK.

I said this already, Sympa. However, there will be a significant time gap between 3.0 and WoTLK. During this time, not everyone will cease raiding. Hence your "pointless" comment is indeed.

Shandara · 09/01/08, 10:24 AM

I love lists.

Pet spell ranks should scale automatically on the level you select.
Greater Blessing of Might rank 3 is my fault, I'd been pruning the lower ranks (i.e. sub-70) out of the sheet and must've deleted it accidentally
Sunder Armor was just a quick hack to get the new value in, I'll redo that stuff when I find a moment

Small update:

- JoW now restores 2% of your total mana per hit
- Hunting Party now restores 0.5% total mana per second (it's assumed you get the buff every time at the moment)
- Explosive Shot now hits the initial target 3 times with the 'big' scaling (345 + 20% RAP)
- Death Knight's Anguish trinket now adds its stacking crit bonus to your actual crit rate
- Windfury Totem now has modifiers for the talent Improved Windfury Totem (improved works for ranged haste too, no?)
- Fixed Buff loading/saving
- Explosive Shot and Arcane Shot share CD
- Added level 70 ranks of Sunder Armor and Greater Blessing of Might

ragex · 09/01/08, 1:00 PM

does anyone have an older verion of the open office soread sheet

Shandara · 09/01/08, 1:51 PM

Originally Posted by ragex

does anyone have an older verion of the open office soread sheet

Open Office is not supported at the moment (fancy way of saying I don't have the time or inclination to adapt it). Once WotLK hits and the sheet is in a stable state I'm sure someone will step forward and adapt it.

You should be able to get the Open Office version of Cheeky's v49 from the old Spreadsheet thread.

EDIT:
After pondering the above discussion about level 70 raiding pre-WotLK, I should have the missing level 70 stuff in the next version again.

One really important bit of info I need though is pet base attack damage at level 80. I'm using the level 70 values at the moment (min 50 and max 70 damage) since I have no information on it.

That is the pet BASE melee attack damage (without modifiers or anything). Any comparison is a bit skewed since with the right talent spec the pet will do nearly the same amount of melee dps at level 70 as it will at 80 without the correct values.

Other pet stats are nice to have, but don't have such a big impact. I'd still like to know them though.

EDIT2:
I'm also missing level 80 armor calculations. I have not found any definite numbers on the scaling at level 80 yet.

EDIT3:
Small update:

- Trinkets can now have sockets and added the Emerald Boar trinket
- Profiles now save spell ranks used
- Profiles now save player level and target level and armor level
- Added new cooking items to buffs

ragex · 09/01/08, 8:25 PM

oh , i tottaly understand, im just after the OLDER version, someone must have an old copy for open office.

KraxisSingular · 09/02/08, 9:09 AM

Shandara, whenever I set my own talents and I pick Bestial Wrath the total DPS doesn't go up, The Beast Within does give a litmited value (as does the Bestial Wrath glyph). That makes BM DPS slow to a relative halt.

Also with that glyph what is the cooldown for Bestial Wrath set to? 64 or 70 seconds?

Shandara · 09/02/08, 9:49 AM

Originally Posted by KraxisSingular

Shandara, whenever I set my own talents and I pick Bestial Wrath the total DPS doesn't go up, The Beast Within does give a litmited value (as does the Bestial Wrath glyph). That makes BM DPS slow to a relative halt.

Also with that glyph what is the cooldown for Bestial Wrath set to? 64 or 70 seconds?

The Glyph is applied first, then Longevity. So with 3/3 Longevity and the Glyph it'll be 70 seconds. (I believe this to be the 'intended' effect, which of course can be wrong in reality)

The Beast Within thing is a bug, apparently moving things about made it check the wrong talent (it was checking Invigoration).

Ravenfire · 09/02/08, 1:09 PM

Shandara,

Marked for Death and Imp. Steady Shot both got changed last patch. Marked for Death went back to its original 5% damage 10% crit damage for max, while Imp. Steady Shot is now 15% chance to proc a 30% bonus damage, 25% mana reduction on Arcane/Aimed/Chimera shot.

Edit: Both trinket gem slot #2 are broken and only have one option (don't even have the option of selecting "none").

Edit #2: On the buffs tab. Selecting zero buffs causes incorrect calculations in the "Haste" column which results in "#DIV/0!" errors all over the place. More specifically, both you and your pet must have Windfury Totem and Swift Retribution set to "YES" to be able to get anything other then the divide by 0 error.

Shandara · 09/02/08, 1:31 PM

Originally Posted by Ravenfire

Shandara,

Marked for Death and Imp. Steady Shot both got changed last patch. Marked for Death went back to its original 5% damage 10% crit damage for max, while Imp. Steady Shot is now 15% chance to proc a 30% bonus damage, 25% mana reduction on Arcane/Aimed/Chimera shot.

Edit: Both trinket gem slot #2 are broken and only have one option (don't even have the option of selecting "none").

Trinkets aren't broken, I just uploaded the sheet without re-enabling automatic updates for the cells, so the code that puts in the right gems does nothing. Blame me.. I should have an update later this evening which fixes it.

Small update:

- Bestial Wrath talent now properly activates and deactivates based on the right talent point
- Marked for Death back to 1/2/3/4/5% damage instead of 2/4/6/8/10%
- Improved Steady shot now a 30% damage bonus and 25% mana reduction (from 15% damage, 40% mana)
- Fixed Haste bug when there are no buffs
- Trinket slots should work now

Ravenfire · 09/02/08, 4:29 PM

Shandara,

I apologize. I logged on during lunch and noticed I am wrong on the Imp. Steady Shot change, you'll need to revert it back to 15% damage and 40% mana. Also, ATM Marked for Death is currently bugged, it grants 2/4/6/8/(5!!)% and 2/4/6/8/10%. I'd leave it as you have it at the moment since there is no telling which it will end up as. Sorry for making you do extra work.

Ebonleaf · 09/02/08, 5:49 PM

Couple things. First thanks for trying to pick up the spreadsheet.

When i do an armory grab and my gear overwrites yours, it still keeps the slots for the trinket, applying them to my DST, instead of removing the option for them.

Also I noticed in the shot rotation tab is has chimera lists as the top option in fire order, even when you spec BM for 51, which as you know wouldn't allow you to actually have chimera shot. It still applies the DPS and everything else as if the shot were still available.

Shandara · 09/02/08, 6:24 PM

Originally Posted by Ebonleaf

Couple things. First thanks for trying to pick up the spreadsheet.

When i do an armory grab and my gear overwrites yours, it still keeps the slots for the trinket, applying them to my DST, instead of removing the option for them.

Also I noticed in the shot rotation tab is has chimera lists as the top option in fire order, even when you spec BM for 51, which as you know wouldn't allow you to actually have chimera shot. It still applies the DPS and everything else as if the shot were still available.

The trinket thing is a bug I'll look in. Unfortunately I know that it doesn't update the shot priority list if you change specs or load from armory. I haven't found a way yet to dynamically change the validation lists involved with it so you'll have to re-do it manually every time you make a big change (it's only 4-5 shots anyway so it's not that onerous).

Still, I have some ideas about it, but it's not straightforward.

Cranch · 09/02/08, 8:28 PM

Probably the easiest thing to do is just have 3 shot rotations available to choose from, and a button underneath them to choose one. Then you can make them different based on talent, or just experiment with different rotations with the same talent. A little note that says you don't check the shot rotation against the talents would be good enough for me.

Indora · 09/03/08, 1:51 PM

Sorry for taking so much time to look through the Shot Rotation tab, our "Schützenfest" distracted me (It's comparable to the Oktoberfest).

Sadly, I wasn't able to find a lot of things

Calculations!N168 should be duration / frequency, not vice versa
Shot Rotation!O.. The frequency is limited by 1.7 I think 1.5 + CastLag may be a better idea
Shot Rotation!T.. It shouldn't be possible to have 3 Stings, simply change the cells to =IF(..;..;T(row-1))
Shot Rotation!U.. While Serpent Sting is refreshed, it results DpM instead of DpS (doesn't have any impact though)
Pet Calculations!F30 should use CrittingShotsPerSecond
Pet Calculations!I57 what about resists / crits with spell-specials?
Pet Calculations!L22 Misschance doesn't decreases the critchance of your pet
Pet Calculations!L38 will be 2% in WotLK

Ravenfire · 09/03/08, 2:13 PM

Shandara,

Some Dwarf base stats for you. I'm only posting the stats I am 100% sure on.

lvl 73
str 69
agil 156
sta 117
base mana 3882

lvl 74
str 70
agil 159
sta 119
int 81
spi 88
base health 3934
base mana 4018

lvl 75
str 71
agil 162
sta 121
int 82
spi 89
base health 4061
base mana 4200

lvl 76
str 72
agil 165
sta 123
int 83
spi 90
base health 4189
base mana 4381

Your intellect number of 131 at level 80 seems like a typo (matches the stamina value) as i just don't see us gaining 48base intellect going from level 76 to 80.

NOTE: I stripped and detalented at lvl 76. I also recorded the values gained from leveling from 74 to 75 and from 75 to 76 and as such simply subtracted those numbers from the lvl 76 values to obtain accurate vales that matched my calculated values (wowwiki formulas for base stats). At lvl 73 I am only sure on str, agil, and stam. I originally had lvl 73 as having 81 int but that would mean a gain of 0 intellect going from 73 to 74. The base mana I am sure on because i made it a point to calculate what my mana cost was for specific abilities and it matches perfectly with all the tooltips in game.

EDIT: not sure why I didn't put these in to start with...
lvl 75 ding granted:
1 str, 3 agil, 2 sta, 1 int, 1 spi, 127 health, 182 mana

lvl 76 ding granted:
1 str, 3 agil, 2 sta, 1 int, 1 spi, 128 health, 181 mana

I am starting to suspect that whom ever originally gave you the level 80 dwarf stats gave you some bad/incorrect numbers...

Shandara · 09/03/08, 7:25 PM

Thanks for the notices.

@Indora:
The magical damage adjustment shouldn't include because every magical pet skill currently does the resist/crit checks themselves, so the number 'Adjustment for Magic' is just all the bonus talents, excluding pet critical strike bonus damage and resist chances.

@Ravenfire:
Judging from the stat increases on leveling, it seems to be fairly linear (differences probably in rounding errors).

Update:

- Misc bug fixes and some more dwarf base stats
- Serpent Sting uptime now is duration/frequency instead of vice-versa
- Blood Frenzy changed to +2% physical damage (down from 4%)

Should hopefully have addressed the issues Indorra brought up.