WotLK DPS spreadsheet - Page 40

Whitefyst · 11/18/08, 5:20 PM

Originally Posted by Smoggers

Is anyone else experiencing an odd result dealing with improved hunter's mark? As cookie cutter survival, I'm getting a higher dps return per point than imp aoth. I've tried glyphing for both respected abilities, and glyphed mark coupled with 3/3 improved mark produces more dps (almost twice the increase) as 3pts invest in a glyphed imp aoth. From what I've read and seen, imp mark is pretty terrible outside of a deep marks build and imp aoth is generally where survival dumps its points. Am I missing something?

Smogs, I was survival pre-Wrath and am deep MM now, so I feel that I can address your question some.

The benefit of Improved Hunter's Mark is a fixed benefit. The Hunter's Mark value is a constant value after adding whatever boost you have to it, such as the Improved Talent and the glyph. It will always provide the same amount of AP and derived from that roughly the same DPS. It does not scale with gear or buffs.

On the other hand, IAotH does not provide a fixed benefit. Sure the amount of haste is fixed, but what is not fixed is the base DPS to which that haste effect is being applied. If you have relatively low base DPS, the benefit of IAotH will be relatively small and can be less than that provided by IHM. As base DPS is increased, the benefit of IAotH becomes greater and it surpasses the benefit of IHM. What the tipping point base DPS value is, I do not readily know since I have not done the analysis. (What also makes a difference is what level of buffs you are assuming - solo, 5-man, 10-man, raids - since the buffs you get affect your base DPS to which IAotH is applied.)

Thus, as soon as I saw your question, I assumed that your base DPS must be low enough such that IHM provides the greater benefit for you ATM. I looked at your armory, and, without trying to make any offense, your stats are quite lacking with all the BC blues and low-level epics. As a comparison, at 70 with a 0/54/7 MM build (a little different than your more PvP one on the armory) pre-Wrath, I had about 38.5% crit and 2900 AP with Hawk and TSA. For me, IAotH is much better than IHM, and I do not plan to talent IHM at 80 since it provides less DPS over other options, such as IAotH.

Hence, for now, if IHM is giving you better numbers, then by all means use it now with keeping in mind that as your gear improves that eventually IAotH (or other options that scale with gear) will be better for you.

Smoggers · 11/18/08, 7:06 PM

Originally Posted by Whitefyst

Thus, as soon as I saw your question, I assumed that your base DPS must be low enough such that IHM provides the greater benefit for you ATM. I looked at your armory, and, without trying to make any offense, your stats are quite lacking with all the BC blues and low-level epics.

The orc hunter is years old, that's not my character anymore. Smogh on frostwolf is my main. Regardless, as you said, I wasn't factoring in scaling which is pretty obvious. Thanks for your input.

Ravenfire · 11/19/08, 12:40 PM

Shandara,

[Valorous Cryptstalker Handguards] seems to be missing from the sheet.

Handa · 11/19/08, 4:19 PM

Nevermind.

Tsook · 11/19/08, 5:20 PM

Originally Posted by Decker

Also there are many Equivalencey Point Mods...why not collaborate and get all data from the spreadsheet into the game for immediate use with leveling?

I have always just put the values from the overview tab for each stat's DPS contribution into Pawn (I'm sure any mod that does something similar would work the same). I have to update the values every once in a while, obviously, because the DPS contribution of various stats changes as your base stats get better, but I've found it useful for approximate dps value of items.

Here's my method (between each step, reset to original gear):
1. Copy values from spreadsheet overview tab for Agi, AP, Hit, Crit, Haste, ArP, Int, Stam into Pawn.
2. Create an identical ranged weapon on Custom Gear. Adjust custom ranged weapon to be exactly 1 more DPS with the same attack speed. Copy resulting DPS difference into Pawn for "ranged dps."
3. Adjust custom ranged weapon to be .1 second slower with the same DPS. Copy resulting DPS difference into Pawn for "ranged weapon speed."
4. Make custom ranged weapon a gun instead of bow. Copy resulting DPS difference into Pawn for "bow" (I'm a troll).
5. Multiply agi/etc stats by the quantities on the gems I'm likely to use for each color socket, copy into Pawn for socket color.
6. Remove meta gem, copy resulting DPS difference into Pawn for meta.

It's a bit handwavy, but it works well enough for what I need. Obviously it assumes whatever gear, shot rotation, pet, and buffs/debuffs you had set on the sheet when you derived the values, and will need to be updated if any of those things changes significantly.

Daagar · 11/20/08, 11:11 AM

That's very cool Tsook, but a lot more 'work' than what Shaman have for example with the sim method of generating EP values

I can see optimizing in that way for level 80 when things won't change too often, but a simple way to generate EP values automatically just for the grind _to_ 80 would be slick.

zebrave · 11/20/08, 11:35 AM

First, thanks to Shandara for this amazing tool.
(btw I love the "Gear Planner", it's super useful)

Just one question, when I'm using the spreadsheet with 52/14/5 talent tree loaded, I still get in the "Shot Rotation" the ability "Readiness" (impossible to get with this build)... It's supposed to work like this? or am I doing anything wrong?

For a correct "rotation test" with this build I've set the priority of Readiness to "none" and then preformed the test...

Cranch · 11/20/08, 12:46 PM

Originally Posted by zebrave

First, thanks to Shandara for this amazing tool.
(btw I love the "Gear Planner", it's super useful)

Just one question, when I'm using the spreadsheet with 52/14/5 talent tree loaded, I still get in the "Shot Rotation" the ability "Readiness" (impossible to get with this build)... It's supposed to work like this? or am I doing anything wrong?

For a correct "rotation test" with this build I've set the priority of Readiness to "none" and then preformed the test...

The shot rotations are not automatically updated when you change talents. You just need to remember to change them yourself, then save the profiles (use the button in the Gear tab for that.)

Azurei · 11/20/08, 1:23 PM

Originally Posted by Tsook

I have always just put the values from the overview tab for each stat's DPS contribution into Pawn (I'm sure any mod that does something similar would work the same). I have to update the values every once in a while, obviously, because the DPS contribution of various stats changes as your base stats get better, but I've found it useful for approximate dps value of items.

I do something similar but I use Excel formulas to automatically create Pawn scales. I've only been doing the attributes and gems so I may add the weapon stuff that you referenced. I don't know how familiar you are with Excel so I'll give you the step-by-step instructions in case you or others need it.

1. In Excel, right-click on a tab (bottom of the screen... Gear, Custom Gear, etc. are examples) and choose Insert...
2. In the Insert dialog, choose Worksheet - OK
3. Double-click the tab that was just created a give it a name, I called mine Pawn
4. If you want to move the sheet around, just click and drag it left/right where you want it
5. Copy the formula(s) below into two cells anywhere on the sheet

This scale is the one that I use when I'm not hit capped.

="( Pawn: v1: ""Hunter"": ArmorPenetration=" & ROUND(DPSArmPen,3) & ", RedSocket=" & ROUND(DPSAgility*16,3) & ", CritRating=" & ROUND(DPSCrit,3) & ", Intellect=" & ROUND(DPSInt,3) & ", MetaSocket=" & ROUND(DPSAgility*21,3) & ", Agility=" & ROUND(DPSAgility,3) & ", HasteRating=" & ROUND(DPSHaste,3) & ", BlueSocket=" & ROUND(DPSHit*8+DPSStamina*12,3) & ", YellowSocket=" & ROUND(DPSAgility*8+DPSHit*8,3) & ", Rap=" & ROUND(DPSAP,3) & ", HitRating=" & ROUND(DPSHit,3) & ", Ap=" & ROUND(DPSAP,3) & ", Mp5=" & ROUND(DPSMp5,3) & " )"

This scale is the one that I use when I am hit capped or I just want to see how good an item is going to be without the hit contribution.

="( Pawn: v1: ""Hunter -Hit"": ArmorPenetration=" & ROUND(DPSArmPen,3) & ", RedSocket=" & ROUND(DPSAgility*16,3) & ", CritRating=" & ROUND(DPSCrit,3) & ", Intellect=" & ROUND(DPSInt,3) & ", MetaSocket=" & ROUND(DPSAgility*21,3) & ", Agility=" & ROUND(DPSAgility,3) & ", HasteRating=" & ROUND(DPSHaste,3) & ", BlueSocket=" & ROUND(DPSAgility*8+DPSMp5*3,3) & ", YellowSocket=" & ROUND(DPSAgility*8+DPSCrit*8,3) & ", Rap=" & ROUND(DPSAP,3) & ", Ap=" & ROUND(DPSAP,3) & ", Mp5=" & ROUND(DPSMp5,3) & " )"

More info:

= at the start means it's a formula
the & is used to concatenate string bits together to make a larger string
ROUND(,3) isn't required but I like seeing the numbers with 3 significant figures instead of running off the screen

I haven't found an automatic way to do the gems based on your preferences on the Settings tab so I just figure out what gem I want for say the red slot (+16 Agi) and then use DPSAgility*16 as the formula. I've used the default preferences from the sheet for the regular scale and the gems below for the -Hit scale.

Hit (Default)
Default Red Gem		Delicate Scarlet Ruby (16 Agi)
Default Yellow Gem		Glinting Monarch Topaz (8 Agi, 8 Hit)
Default Blue Gem		Vivid Forest Emerald (8 Hit, 12 Sta)
Default Meta Gem		Relentless Earthsiege Diamond (21 Agi)

-Hit
Default Red Gem		Delicate Scarlet Ruby (16 Agi)
Default Yellow Gem		Deadly Monarch Topaz (8 Agi, 8 Crit)
Default Blue Gem		Tenuous Twilight Opal (8 Agi, 3 Mp5)
Default Meta Gem		Relentless Earthsiege Diamond (21 Agi)

Once the scale is created in Excel:
1. Copy the cell in Excel that contains a scale
2. Bring up the Pawn settings page in WoW
3. Click Import and paste into the box - OK

Repeat for other scales. NOTE: Make sure that you click CalcAttributes on the Overview tab to get the current attribute values before importing into Pawn.

Elvinalfie · 11/20/08, 1:54 PM

Just an FYI, when I imported my stats from the Armory I got a message saying that the new +55AP +15Crit is not a recognised leg enchant.

Ebonleaf · 11/20/08, 3:15 PM

Any way you could add Fang of Truth to the gear lists please?

Thanks in advance.

Sylvand · 11/20/08, 11:23 PM

77b

Enchant 2H Weapon - Greater Savagery (+85 AP) does not read correctly from armory (someone else noted this already).
Enchant Ring - Assault is +32 AP, not +40 AP as in the spreadsheet. Probably for this reason it does not read correctly from armory.
Enchant Gloves - Greater Assault is +35 AP, not +32 AP as in the spreadsheet. Again is it not read correctly from armory.
Also, there seems to be a bug with Thunderstomp. On the pet calculations page, the frequency used (L197) seems to do a check for Chimera pet, instead of Gorilla.

Thanks for all the hard work!

Rezdan · 11/21/08, 12:26 AM

I'm not seeing the Set Bonus row of the Gear tab when equiping 2pc Crypstalker as giving +5% pet damage.

piccolo58 · 11/21/08, 2:39 AM

someone mentioned this, or a few people mentioned this. if you don't want to pay for microsoft junk, go here www: OpenOffice.org - The Free and Open Productivity Suite. all their programs work as well or almost as well or arguably better. their basic office pack comes with an excel type program that opened up the spreads sheets a-ok! goodluck

Shandara · 11/21/08, 3:31 AM

Originally Posted by Rezdan

I'm not seeing the Set Bonus row of the Gear tab when equiping 2pc Crypstalker as giving +5% pet damage.

This is applied separatedly on the Pet Calculations tab.

I should have a new version out with a ton of corrected items soonish, but I'm too busy leveling to 80 in my spare time at the moment.

As for Open Office, I don't use it myself nor plan to, so it would take someone else to convert the sheet (mostly the VBscript code) for it.