WotLK DPS spreadsheet - Page 47

Kolusius · 11/26/08, 10:24 AM

Strange. I was playing with the different food buffs, and a couple seem to be net dps losses according to the spreadsheet. Both of the AP foods (Ravager dogs, and poached northern skulpin) drop my dps when I turn them on, while all other food buffs will increase it.

Using no buffs at all, I show 1550.16 net dps. If I turn on just grilled skulpin, that drops to 1536.91. With just Ravager Dogs, it shows 1528.69.

I've been out of the loop for over a year, so if there is a reason behind this I apologize, but I can't figure out why this would be.

(e) Going to check it out on a different computer. I don't trust the excel on this one.

mako · 11/26/08, 10:31 AM

"Heroes' Crypstalker Spaulders" are incorrectly listed as "Heroes' Cryptstalker Spaulder" in the spreadsheet, making the armory import for said item fail.

Heenk · 11/26/08, 11:12 AM

Originally Posted by Tsook

Regarding the questions of whether Agi will once again become better for us than comparable ivalues of AP, I investigated with some of the gear available in the sheet. I'm not claiming this solves the argument entirely or is even a particularly scientific approach to the problem, but these are my results.

This is for BM (54/17, but I doubt a few points here or there would dramatically change it). I didn't check for Marks and we already know agi is better than AP for survival. I used the "Level 80 Raid" buff set that comes with the sheet, and a Raptor pet. Again, I'm just looking for a trend here, so I'm not concerned about getting everything 100% kosher.

I selected what seems like a fairly representative sample of good 5-man/heroic gear. For reference, this left me with:
1428 Agi
2880 AP
630 Crit
284 Hit
80 ArP
94 Haste

At these levels, Agi is .788 DPS per item budget and AP is .859. So AP is about 9% better than agi.

Next I picked 10-man gear. This brings the stats up to
1526 Agi
2772 AP
673 Crit
299 Hit
126 ArP
156 Haste

At these levels, Agi is .858 DPS per item budget and AP is .921. So AP is 7.3% better.

Finally I picked 25-man gear. I pretty much just picked the top of everything in the gear planner.
1530 Agi
3146 AP
824 Crit
299 Hit
136 ArP
275 Haste

At this gear level, Agi is .901 DPS per item budget and AP is .952. So AP is 5.7% better.

So, with each gear increase, as AP continues to rise, agi becomes more valuable, just as we've come to expect in BC. I'm not going to speculate on what our future gear will look like exactly, but it seems pretty likely that in a tier or two we'll be back to 1 agi > 2 AP - at least in terms of what the spreadsheet says values are.

Don't forget that while 1 agi might pull up next to 1 ap, you get 2 ap for the same amount of item budget as 1 agi.

Tsook · 11/26/08, 12:32 PM

My numbers were "per item budget." 1 agi easily beats 1 AP for all specs.

thehittmann1981 · 11/26/08, 12:37 PM

Also need to take into account that base stats scale with buffs where ap remains the same.

thehittmann1981 · 11/26/08, 12:39 PM

Originally Posted by samfisher

Hmm, the gear planner MIGHT have some calculation probs. Crossbow of Relentless Strikes = 176.92, Drake Mounted Crossbow = 349.77?? That's a huge increase if it's right xD This is after I click the Ranged Weapons button at the top. Also, Armory has been revamped, but it still works with the spreadsheet if anyone is worrying.

yes it is much better, ask someone who has one (me) to compare their damage range with you sometime.

germanboy3383 · 11/26/08, 1:46 PM

Originally Posted by Shandara

On a non-related note, does anyone know what the tooltip text is for the blacksmithing bonus socket enchant?

Edit:
To the poster above, Claw is a spammable ability while Rake is on a CD. Putting Claw above Rake results in Rake not being used because there are no pet GCDs left to use it with.

oh thank you.
so is there any way in game i can make claw have higher priority than rake?
and is there anyone who can confirm/deny that serpent sting does not have to be your own for Glyph of Steady Shot?
Oh and i set my spreadsheet to optimal raid conditions with full buffs to see what i should be getting dps wise.

Mattaos · 11/26/08, 1:59 PM

Originally Posted by thehittmann1981

Also need to take into account that base stats scale with buffs where ap remains the same.

This was true in TBC, but WotLK raiding buffs have changed. AP does, in fact, scale with buffs i.e. TSA, Abom's Might, Endless Rage

Faerdael · 11/26/08, 3:32 PM

Originally Posted by germanboy3383

oh thank you.
so is there any way in game i can make claw have higher priority than rake?
and is there anyone who can confirm/deny that serpent sting does not have to be your own for Glyph of Steady Shot?
Oh and i set my spreadsheet to optimal raid conditions with full buffs to see what i should be getting dps wise.

The same behavior as explained to you regarding the spreadsheet would hold true in game. If you always spammed claw with a higher priority than Rake, then you will never use rake, as it will always be deferred due to pet GCD.

You "could" macro with:
/cast claw
/cast rake
but has the same effect as turning Rake off completely.

Regarding AP vs Agility thresholds, yes there are breakpoints, where one becomes better than the other. On the spreadsheet, I can take my lvl 70 raid gear (bad crit), slap 5000 attack power into the hand adjust field and 1 agility overtakes 2 ap again. Heck, I can even add 10k AP and 1 crit > 1 agil > 2 ap. These are extreme cases, however, and you shouldn't really run into them.

I did, however, hit a point briefly in TBC raiding where 2 ap was maybe .02 dps better than 1 agility on paper, which was pretty odd. I was running 2 pc s3, a vengeful axe and a tsunami talisman, so I had something like 1900ap and 32% crit.

Mathorli · 11/26/08, 4:20 PM

Originally Posted by Shandara

On a non-related note, does anyone know what the tooltip text is for the blacksmithing bonus socket enchant?
-snip

Prismatic Socket

Decker · 11/26/08, 4:28 PM

Bug:

Bright Cardinal Ruby is listed as a "Yellow" socket.

Shandara · 11/26/08, 4:42 PM

Originally Posted by SpartanKillian

Edit: I also noticed that when I test the 53/11/7 build and set my rotation priorities to Beast Within/Rapid Fire/Serpent Sting/Steady Shot, my Rotation Test tab still calculated Readiness at 3.20... despite refreshing. I can't seem to find a way to disable Readiness and it's obviously throwing non 50/21/0 numbers off. Any suggestions?

I'm not sure what you mean here. You don't put Readiness in your rotation and you have no talent points in it, yet it shows up in the Shot Rotation Test?

SpartanKillian · 11/26/08, 4:58 PM

Originally Posted by Shandara

I'm not sure what you mean here. You don't put Readiness in your rotation and you have no talent points in it, yet it shows up in the Shot Rotation Test?

That's what happened--Readiness would remain in the Rotation Test calculations and affect other abilities accordingly even if I was untalented and didn't include it in my priority list. I was using v78; I switched to 78a and the problem isn't replicated, so I suppose it's no big deal after all. Thanks for all your work on this.

Tsook · 11/26/08, 5:27 PM

Originally Posted by Faerdael

Regarding AP vs Agility thresholds, yes there are breakpoints, where one becomes better than the other. On the spreadsheet, I can take my lvl 70 raid gear (bad crit), slap 5000 attack power into the hand adjust field and 1 agility overtakes 2 ap again. Heck, I can even add 10k AP and 1 crit > 1 agil > 2 ap. These are extreme cases, however, and you shouldn't really run into them.

Sure, you'll always be able to *force* agi to be better than AP by throwing a bunch of AP on without a lot of crit. What I was curious about was *with the way Blizzard is itemizing*, is it likely to hit that point. That's why I compared at three actual gear levels that are attainable in game right now. Obviously until we see how Tier 8 and 9 are itemized we can't say for sure whether it will, in fact, hit the inflection point, but I attempted to demonstrate with real-world stats that the spreadsheet's valuation looks likely to cross with gear attainable this expansion.

KergeKacsa · 11/26/08, 5:56 PM

2 missing thing when imported from Armory:
Hauberk of Arcane Wraith
Enchant Feet - Icewalker