WotLK DPS spreadsheet - Page 48

Sean · 01/09/09, 7:24 AM

Yeah, Spirit Strike is definitely scaling off Pet AP rather than Pet Spellpower on PTR. Did it used to scale off Pet Spellpower?

Shandara · 01/09/09, 7:43 AM

I'm currently adding the new changes, but I just wanted to say something on the whole haste problem.

The problem with these effects (Imp. AotH and T7 4-set bonus, etc..) is that their effectiveness depends circularly on themselves. The spreadsheet isn't set up as an iterative model though which makes representing these effects difficult.

The same goes for Wolverine Bite. The frequency with which it is used depends on the speed of pet attacks, which is affected by frenzy, which is affected by wolverine bite (since it can crit).

Selmarix · 01/09/09, 9:20 AM

That is part of the difficulty to model such effects and you will have to approximate at some point and leave out the least significant dependency (or crudely model it in a closed way).

Luckily the T7 4-set bonus does not have a significant circular dependency the way the spreadsheet is modeled as long as you insert its effect at the right places.
It has an effect on damage depending on viper uptime but that damage does not influence viper uptime. It can be approximated as an autoshot dps increase depending on viper uptime and viper penalty which is already used in the respective calculation without any circular dependency.
Viper uptime in the spreadsheet is calculated by considering viper regen per second. And that is right where you can multiply in the set bonus on the auto shot contribution to that regen. No circular dependency either.
Now of course that is an approximation (like most things in the spreadsheet), but one that is a lot closer than not considering the set bonus at all.

About Wolverine Bite: The circular feedback is quite small. Especially in the focus and frenzy saturated conditions we tend to have nowadays. So best give it a cooldown using a constant attack number and PetTargetDodge to get an approximate rate of availability. That means mainly the calculation in MaxDPS for Wolverine Bite but not using PetCompSpeed. Instead use a small table of precalculated numbers depending on the talent point number in SS and Frenzy.

Sean · 01/09/09, 11:35 AM

Sorry if this has been mentioned before, but Improved Tracking doesn't seem to effect Serpent Sting on the latest version of the spreadsheet. The change to the talent on PTR does make it increase Serpent Sting damage.

Aern · 01/09/09, 1:53 PM

removed. I'm dumb.

ankah · 01/09/09, 3:13 PM

Originally Posted by Aern

I've been working with the spread sheet to try and figure out what amount of haste would be best to bring steady shot down to 1.5 sec cast and how much it would increase my dps. What I've been noticing is haste wasn't affecting my dps positively at all. That is because steady shot cast time is listed at 1.5 + .1 for lag instead of 2.0 + .1. I don't know if this is because its been too difficult to figure out a way to have the spread sheet show an effect on Steady Shot cast time or if I just don't know something about the spread sheet but it seems like a pretty large problem in trying to accurately rate gear for SV.

I am sure some one will post in detail about that, but real quick, your biggest haste factor is your quiver/ammo pouch, at 15%, so your Steady shot will never be at 2.0

• Nagisamuro · 01/09/09, 4:21 PM

Originally Posted by Aern

I've been working with the spread sheet to try and figure out what amount of haste would be best to bring steady shot down to 1.5 sec cast and how much it would increase my dps. What I've been noticing is haste wasn't affecting my dps positively at all. That is because steady shot cast time is listed at 1.5 + .1 for lag instead of 2.0 + .1.

Where are you looking at the cast time? On the version I'm using (79a), the Calculations sheet, cell K32 shows a Steady Shot Base Cast Time of 2. Right under that is the calculated Hasted Cast Time (1.34 in my case). In the Shot Rotation sheet, looking at my Shot Priority table, the entry for Steady Shot shows a 1.34 'cooldown' and a 'time used' value of 1.6. I assume the 'time used' is calculated by taking the greater of the GCD or the shot's 'cooldown' and adding 0.1 for latency.

greendef · 01/09/09, 4:49 PM

Originally Posted by Esoth

That's because the spreadsheet is treating explosive shot as if it were on the spell hit table, which seems to be in accordance with reports I've seen. The spell hit cap is 17% and 26.23 hit = 1% spell hit so the spell hit cap is 446 (close to your number, which I assume was an estimate). If explosive shot is making up something like 40% (just a guess here) of your total damage, it wouldn't be surprising that hit past physical cap is still more valuable than relatively weak stats like crit and haste.

Does it work like this also on live? Reason I ask is because I haven't noticed a single miss with 265 hit rating during my (limited) testing.

Fierra · 01/09/09, 5:38 PM

Originally Posted by greendef

Does it work like this also on live? Reason I ask is because I haven't noticed a single miss with 265 hit rating during my (limited) testing.

Since I have hit 8% hit on a live server, I have not observed any ES misses at all, either in 10-man OS, Heroics, or in Archavon (in those instances where I don't succumb to the cloud debuff at all). Seems like the ES still uses the physical hit cap, rather than the spell hit cap, for calculating to-hit.

Chul · 01/09/09, 7:40 PM

* Acid Spit has a 10s cooldown not 20s

* "- Call of the Wild will now properly disable if you have a ferocity pet but don't take the talent" doesn't seem to work on 81c. CotW still gives me AP even when I disable the talent. A quick look suggests this is because the Rank isn't used; the AP bonus (C50) should be multiplied by the rank (C46)

* Glancing Blow calculations of a lvl 80 pet against a lvl 70 target dummy gave me +2% damage bonus. If the defense difference is negative, you should just set it to 100%.

Ferrari_13 · 01/10/09, 12:17 AM

Deleted...

Axejess · 01/10/09, 2:20 PM

Looks like Longevity is bugged in version 81c. When i put in 3 points I am getting less dps then with 0 points in it. With 1 and 2 points it's higher but with 3 dps goes down with like -45dps.

Nooska · 01/10/09, 2:45 PM

Bug Report:

I'm using version 81c (according to the changelog on it)
Acid spit when using a worm pet, in pet calculations bugs:
Pet calculations F147 focus per second caluclation returns a #Name? (I assume in english, for some reason my excel is in danish :-/)

The contents of the cell is:

=IF(F146>0;F134t/F146;0)

Apart from the lowercase t in there (which I amnot sure is whether is an error or not, I'm not that good with excel myself) F134 is the crit damage modifier in %, and looking at the other focus per second calculaions it should simply be the focus divdied by the frequency used :

=IF(F146>0;F143/F146;0)

(If I'm not mistaken)

KergeKacsa · 01/10/09, 9:06 PM

It would be nice if we can set Immolation trap in the shot rotation. (to force procc TNT)
For our full enjoy, it would be nice if the last shot before Immolation trap have to be an instant (if no instant, then skip it.) and it could be waste 2 or 3 auto shot (while running.)

Thx for your work

Korvek · 01/11/09, 7:11 AM

Might be just me but serpent sting never fires in my shot rotation.

I set these priorities:
Blood Fury
Serpent Sting
Rapid Fire
Chimera Shot
Arcane Shot
Readiness
Steady Shot

When I run the test, the first serpent sting never fires.

Shandara · 01/11/09, 9:38 AM

Originally Posted by Korvek

Might be just me but serpent sting never fires in my shot rotation.

I set these priorities:
Blood Fury
Serpent Sting
Rapid Fire
Chimera Shot
Arcane Shot
Readiness
Steady Shot

When I run the test, the first serpent sting never fires.

For the sake of simplicity the first serpent sting (because all the others are refreshed by Chimera) is not simulated. The damage is counted though.

Edit:

- Acid Spit now 10 second cooldown
- New PTR Explosive Shot scaling
- New Scorpid Poison changes
- Acid Spit bug fixed
- Glancing blows capped if pet higher level than target
- Improved Tracking affects Serpent Sting now
- Wolverine Bite now uses an approximate 0,75 attack frequency to determine its proc rate
- T7 4-set bonus approximated as far as auto-shot dps and viper uptime goes
- When determining the value of +haste the CalcAttributes button will now discount the effects of dynamic haste procs (rapid fire, item procs, heroism) to determine the cap.
- Call of the Wild now really fixed
- Fire Breath should be correct dps contribution now
- +32 AP enchant on boots fixed
- FI now increases Arcane Shot damage by 3/6/9%

Rezdan · 01/11/09, 12:56 PM

A small issue with an easy workaround, 81d's PAWN String is missing the Stamina value.

Thanks again for your hard work!

Sean · 01/11/09, 4:19 PM

Shandara - the Spirit Beast's Spirit Strike does not work off pet spell power. It works off Pet Attack power, I tested this very easily by using Aspect of the Beast which only effects its AP.

Shandara · 01/11/09, 4:46 PM

Originally Posted by Sean

Shandara - the Spirit Beast's Spirit Strike does not work off pet spell power. It works off Pet Attack power, I tested this very easily by using Aspect of the Beast which only effects its AP.

81d should have it work from pet AP. I checked and I forgot to remove the line saying 'Pet spellpower'. If you check the damage further on it doesn't use that cell anymore but Pet AP instead. It's a bit unclear I admit. I'm cleaning up all the pet abilities to use the same formulas for the next version.

KergeKacsa · 01/11/09, 5:59 PM

Shandara, as I see LnL's new 30 sec inner CD is not yet implemented?

Edit: typo.

Onouris · 01/12/09, 2:18 AM

Something is doing my head in. The Gear Planner is telling me a piece (a belt with no hit rating, compared to my current belt with, and I'm way over the hit cap coz of a new weapon) is better. It makes sense. Drop some hit I don't need, get some stats I do.

I'm survival specced on the sheet, ready for next patch because it still seems to blow everything else away, and when I change the belt on the actual gear tab my DPS goes down. Same buckle, same gem in the buckle, not losing or gaining anything but the stats on the belt, gear tab shows DPS decrease, Gear Planner shows increase.

If it were something to do with 'oh your pet still needs hit' sure I'd go for that, but surely the Gear Planner would work that out too.

Chul · 01/12/09, 2:33 AM

From the PTR notes:

-Judgement of Wisdom: Now returns a percentage of base mana instead of a percentage of max mana.

The spreadsheet still assumes 1% total mana, rather than 2% base mana in 3.0.8.

Few extra points:

Rabid and Roar of Recovery shouldn't on the GCD anymore (Rabid definately isn't, but haven't checked RoR)
Roar of Recovery shouldn't be averaged to get the mana/s like other abilities because it works differently. For example, the shorter the fight, the more mana/s it is. Perhaps look at the boss fight length and work out how often it would be used.
Roar of Recovery shouldn't be red in the talent list since it is a DPS boost, albeit indirectly.
Roar of Recovery isn't being used in Viper uptime calculations. Adding in the spell into the pet rotation adds its mana/s to the Mana Regen section, but the ManaRegenWithoutViper cell (not sure where that is, but it is referenced in Shot Rotation!C45) doesn't consider it so you don't get any DPS boost from less Viper time.

Rezdan · 01/12/09, 2:33 AM

@Onouris
The problem may be that you're going below the hit cap once you've swapped to the new belt.
In many cases, gemming for hit may net a dps increase if you're only a little short of the cap; this would also prevent wasting stats by swapping to gear with more base Hit than you actually need to hit the cap.

Onouris · 01/12/09, 2:41 AM

Originally Posted by Rezdan

@Onouris
The problem may be that you're going below the hit cap once you've swapped to the new belt.
In many cases, gemming for hit may net a dps increase if you're only a little short of the cap; this would also prevent wasting stats by swapping to gear with more base Hit than you actually need to hit the cap.

Yeah could have been that but just gone and rechecked and I'm still over 2% above the hit cap after the change, more than 3 before. The number it's coming up with for hit is wrong, the spec in there has no and is missing no hit from my live spec and the gear is the same, but either way even ingame I'm still 2% above the hit cap after the change.

Rezdan · 01/12/09, 2:56 AM

@Onouris
Is your Survival spec employing 3/3 Focused Aim? Also, what Pet are you testing with? Its quite tough to figure out what the problem is without having your actual spreadsheet setup to play around with.