WotLK DPS spreadsheet - Page 49

Selmarix · 01/12/09, 6:16 AM

Originally Posted by Chul

Roar of Recovery isn't being used in Viper uptime calculations. Adding in the spell into the pet rotation adds its mana/s to the Mana Regen section, but the ManaRegenWithoutViper cell (not sure where that is, but it is referenced in Shot Rotation!C45) doesn't consider it so you don't get any DPS boost from less Viper time.

It is in Calculations!E32 and yes, Roar of Recovery in E26 is missing from that sum.

Shandara · 01/12/09, 6:45 AM

Originally Posted by Selmarix

It is in Calculations!E32 and yes, Roar of Recovery in E26 is missing from that sum.

Fixed next version. Had to make some changes or it would lead to (yet) another circular reference mess.

As for JoW, I couldn't find any data on possibly changed proc chances or internal cooldowns so I'll just stick with a 2% base mana change for now.

EDIT:

Update:

- Added Stamina to PAWN string
- JoW now restores 2% base mana
- Roar of Recovery now bases mana regen on the amount of times it can be used in a boss fight and is also used for Viper Uptime calculations
- Rabid and Roar of Recovery no longer use a pet GCD
- All Pet 'magic' abilities now scale with pet AP at 4,2875% (apart from those mentioned by Ghostcrawler as having a different coefficient). Pet physical damage abilities still scale with 7% of AP (excepting again those mentioned by GC)
- Alchemy Trinket +40% potion effect now implemented

Ravenfire · 01/12/09, 1:01 PM

Bug: While Roar of Recovery is being calculated correctly for actual mana returned, it is not turning off for cases with Ferocity/Tenacity pets and is thus screwing with proper mana regen rates and AotV up time. At the moment Roar of Recovery is calculated via a simple CIELING function (cell E120) and does not check to see if a cunning pet/appropriate talent point is selected.

There is also a pair of #REF! errors in the Thunderstomp calculation section.

Shandara · 01/12/09, 1:24 PM

Originally Posted by Ravenfire

Bug: While Roar of Recovery is being calculated correctly for actual mana returned, it is not turning off for cases with Ferocity/Tenacity pets and is thus screwing with proper mana regen rates and AotV up time. At the moment Roar of Recovery is calculated via a simple CIELING function (cell E120) and does not check to see if a cunning pet/appropriate talent point is selected.

There is also a pair of #REF! errors in the Thunderstomp calculation section.

Good catch. Made a quick fix and reuploaded.

Update:

- Fixed Thunderstomp #REF! errors
- Roar of Recovery only works for Cunning pets now

Seoman · 01/12/09, 1:55 PM

Minor item error:

Concealment Shoulderpads are Leather, but appear even when Leather is unchecked.

KergeKacsa · 01/12/09, 2:08 PM

Shandara, when will be LnL's new 30 sec inner CD implemented?

ankah · 01/12/09, 2:41 PM

I noticed how Mana Regen per Second, under the calculations tab has Hunting party, although it is not listed under hunter buffs. You also have a separate line for target debuffs. Is that Hunting Party mana regen a placeholder for another skill, or should it be listed under hunter buffs as well (the number does carry over to shot rotation)?

Shutruk · 01/12/09, 3:04 PM

I don't know if this has been reported yet, but when I read my gear from the armory, it doesn't pick up the "Darkmoon Card: Greatness", It just displays my "Bandit's Insignia" twice.

Guessing it has something to do with the same ID numbers on the Darkmoon Cards between Int, Agi, STR and Spirit?

Onouris · 01/12/09, 4:06 PM

Originally Posted by Rezdan

@Onouris
Is your Survival spec employing 3/3 Focused Aim? Also, what Pet are you testing with? Its quite tough to figure out what the problem is without having your actual spreadsheet setup to play around with.

Nah it isn't, and it's a Wind Serpent (it's close enough in DPS, seemingly without taking Roar of Recovery into account. So with the new changes which I'll download soon hopefully that'll push it over the edge).

Axejess · 01/12/09, 5:38 PM

Why is Journey's End the best 2hnd weapon? It's a druid weapon according to wowhead and thotbot.

dlanod · 01/12/09, 6:39 PM

Originally Posted by Axejess

Why is Journey's End the best 2hnd weapon? It's a druid weapon according to wowhead and thotbot.

All druid weapons are having their feral AP removed, DPS upped to normal stats, and most are having their strength converted into AP in 3.0.8. That makes a lot of them somewhere in between "good" and "excellent" for hunters.

Whitemane · 01/12/09, 10:41 PM

Originally Posted by Shutruk

I don't know if this has been reported yet, but when I read my gear from the armory, it doesn't pick up the "Darkmoon Card: Greatness", It just displays my "Bandit's Insignia" twice.

Guessing it has something to do with the same ID numbers on the Darkmoon Cards between Int, Agi, STR and Spirit?

I have the same thing - it reports that my Ring of Invincibility is an invalid trinket and then doesn't import Darkmoon Card: Greatness.

I didn't see in the latest version and I didn't see it mentioned in notes, but the spreadsheet counts aimed shot in the shot rotation if you select it in the shot rotation tab - even though you have not put a talent point into it and in effect, do not have it.

Chul · 01/12/09, 10:50 PM

- Roar of Recovery: This spell is taken into consideration regardless of whether it is in the pet rotation so long as the talent is selected so remove it from the selection list. And lastly, the calculated frequency of usage assumes a static 6 minute spell cooldown - a) shouldn't this be referenced like other pet spell data, and b) wouldn't longevity reduce this?

- Rabid: Not sure why Rapid is still in the list since it is off the GCD, but assuming it is selected and then you change pets to say cunning, it still gets the affect of Rabid.

I think all pet talent point checks must also check pet family for completeness.

akbinhil · 01/13/09, 1:30 AM

I know everyone hates them, but do we have an ETA for sporebat special damage for the spreadsheet? I'm leveling one right now, and was curious how they'd stack up against, say, raptors at high AP.

ankah · 01/13/09, 4:05 AM

Originally Posted by akbinhil

I know everyone hates them, but do we have an ETA for sporebat special damage for the spreadsheet? I'm leveling one right now, and was curious how they'd stack up against, say, raptors at high AP.

I ran some numbers by hand, and they didn't stack up all that well against ferocity pets, even with Roar of Recovery factored in. The difference was not huge, but significant. they did look more attractive if there is no armor debuffer around (well, a minor debuff, in this case), but at that point, you may be better off with a wasp. If RoR gets buffed, then they may became viable for MM hunters, otherwise, hug your kitty.

**edited**

the numbers for the spore cloud's dps is in the spread sheet, just not transferring over. Just check out the Pet calculation tab, and it will show the max dps and the actual dps, as long as you have the spore bat selected as pet, and have the skill on the rotation.

Few things to point out:

1. It did make it the number 1 pet for me (15/51/05, with 4 points into UF), in my case by 8dps.
2. The spore cloud's armor debuff is being calculated regardless of minor debuffs (calculations tab, armor penetration shows By Pet Debuffs of -630 armor), so it increases the pet's overall dps (in my case 18dps).
3. In short, it still did less than a cat/raptor (again, for me it was 10 dps less).

akbinhil · 01/13/09, 7:12 AM

Originally Posted by ankah

the numbers for the spore cloud's dps is in the spread sheet, just not transferring over. Just check out the Pet calculation tab, and it will show the max dps and the actual dps, as long as you have the spore bat selected as pet, and have the skill on the rotation.

Few things to point out:

1. It did make it the number 1 pet for me (15/51/05, with 4 points into UF), in my case by 8dps.
2. The spore cloud's armor debuff is being calculated regardless of minor debuffs (calculations tab, armor penetration shows By Pet Debuffs of -630 armor), so it increases the pet's overall dps (in my case 18dps).
3. In short, it still did less than a cat/raptor (again, for me it was 10 dps less).

Since this is going to get out sooner or later: I did the test on live today, Spore Cloud at level 80 was stacking with both Faerie Fire and Sunder. Which means the entire raid gets another 700 (read 10%) armor penetration on the boss on top of the Major and Minor debuffs. My numbers fully raid buffed (according to the spread sheet--which doesn't factor in damage from Spore Cloud) put it *just* under cats when you add in that Spore Cloud damage. Expect a ninja fix soon I guess?

*edit as well*

I just calculated that extra 630 armor reduction as a 40-50 dps increase for me as SV explosive shot. Probably won't make up for CotW (I lose 60 personal dps due to losing CotW, but all other physical damage dealers in the raid will benefit as well--just one other hunter means the difference is evened out)

Breakerone · 01/13/09, 7:57 AM

I hope I didnt oversee that it was asked already, but is there an option to not rate mana related gains as +/- dps?
I wish I could model my talents and not lose dps by not getting invigoration, which is no dps increase if you dont run out of mana. Since there is no way to change the passworded settings, I guess this would be a viable option, dont you think?

Ursu · 01/13/09, 8:30 AM

Originally Posted by Breakerone

I hope I didnt oversee that it was asked already, but is there an option to not rate mana related gains as +/- dps?

In the settings tab, there is an option "Aspect behavior" in "hunter option - Misc option". Put "always on" to stay in dragonhawk (no viper). In this case, mana is not taken in account as dps (more mana or more mana regen is a benefit for dps if you have to put viper).

Breakerone · 01/13/09, 9:55 AM

Originally Posted by Ursu

In the settings tab, there is an option "Aspect behavior" in "hunter option - Misc option". Put "always on" to stay in dragonhawk (no viper). In this case, mana is not taken in account as dps (more mana or more mana regen is a benefit for dps if you have to put viper).

Perfect, thanks a lot. I guessed there must be an option. I didnt realize at all, that you can alter things on the setting page

Vitaro · 01/13/09, 10:02 AM

Originally Posted by akbinhil

Since this is going to get out sooner or later: I did the test on live today, Spore Cloud at level 80 was stacking with both Faerie Fire and Sunder.

Following your post I just went out to tame a Spore Bat with Spore Cloud (Rank 5) and tested at the dummy: It did indeed stack with Sunder Armor (which is a Major Armor Debuff) but not with Faerie Fire (which is a Minor Armor Debuff) (full listing of stacking types). Can you please explain how you came to the conclusion that Spore Cloud stacks with Faerie Fire? Is it only the final rank (Rank 6) that my level 75 bat does not have yet?

Breakerone · 01/13/09, 10:34 AM

I have another thing, that got me wondering. I was filling out both spreadsheets, the pre-ptr and the ptr one to see the difference. But while the sum on the pet dps breakdown is obviously incorrect (complete dps has it correct again), I just cant find out why I would lose on 4.2 percent of crit with the exact same spec and the exact same gear and zero buffs.

To make this easier I attach two screens of the overview.

Pre-PTR:

ImageShack - Image Hosting :: preptrdm7.jpg

PTR:

ImageShack - Image Hosting :: ptryz8.jpg

akbinhil · 01/13/09, 11:02 AM

Originally Posted by Vitaro

Following your post I just went out to tame a Spore Bat with Spore Cloud (Rank 5) and tested at the dummy: It did indeed stack with Sunder Armor (which is a Major Armor Debuff) but not with Faerie Fire (which is a Minor Armor Debuff) (full listing of stacking types). Can you please explain how you came to the conclusion that Spore Cloud stacks with Faerie Fire? Is it only the final rank (Rank 6) that my level 75 bat does not have yet?

--Edit---
Don't go buy a new stable slot for a spore bat just yet, further testing is required since my server went down before I could completely finish!
--/Edit---

My Spore Bat is level 80, with rank 6 Spore Cloud.

I did it by using the Screeching Bow (39.1 damage no range) and testing my autoshot against a target first without debuffs. Then with my Spore Bat's cloud debuff on it (a slight increase in autoshot damage). Then with a druid's feral faerie fire (a slight increase in autoshot damage). Then with 5 sunders (a large increase in autoshot damage).

With each debuff I gained autoshot damage--and since my bow has no more than 4 damage variation (I didn't use hunter's mark, and I removed all equipment that procs), these increases in damage show that the debuffs do indeed stack.

When someone else gets a chance to play with a level 80 Spore Bat and test this again, let me know. My tests were quite rushed as I was trying to beat the server shutdown. So, this test needs to be replicated! Maybe it won't stack with boomkin FF?

I think I calculated it out to about 124 armor pen rating based on the pets's debuff post Sunder and FF--but this number I'm a LOT less sure about. Help me with this one too.

Nakari · 01/13/09, 11:14 AM

Originally Posted by akbinhil

--Edit---
I forgot the importation question, are you testing on the PTR or live? US servers are down... so PTR?
--/Edit---

My Spore Bat is level 80, with rank 6 Spore Cloud.

I did it by using the Screeching Bow (39.1 damage no range) and testing my autoshot against a target first without debuffs. Then with my Spore Bat's cloud debuff on it (a slight increase in autoshot damage). Then with a druid's feral faerie fire (a slight increase in autoshot damage). Then with 5 sunders (a large increase in autoshot damage).

With each debuff I gained autoshot damage--and since my bow has no more than 4 damage variation (I didn't use hunter's mark, and I removed all equipment that procs), these increases in damage show that the debuffs do indeed stack.

When someone else gets a chance to play with a level 80 Spore Bat and test this again, let me know. My tests were quite rushed as I was trying to beat the server shutdown. So, this test needs to be replicated! Maybe it won't stack with boomkin FF?

I think I calculated it out to about 124 armor pen rating based on the pets's debuff post Sunder and FF--but this number I'm a LOT less sure about. Help me with this one too.

It's quite simple... Fareie Fire is stronger than Spore Cloud, so in your test Faerie Fire would have overwritten Spore Cloud and thus resulted in increased damage. If you want to know if they truly stack you'd need to make one test with only Faerie Fire and one with Faerie Fire and Spore Cloud up, and see if the damage differs (my guess: it won't).

akbinhil · 01/13/09, 11:17 AM

Originally Posted by Nakari

It's quite simple... Fareie Fire is stronger than Spore Cloud, so in your test Faerie Fire would have overwritten Spore Cloud and thus resulted in increased damage. If you want to know if they truly stack you'd need to make one test with only Faerie Fire and one with Faerie Fire and Spore Cloud up, and see if the damage differs (my guess: it won't).

Yes you're right, now I look like an ass

. I'll give it a try when my server comes back up. Damn being in a hurry and tired!

danglebombs · 01/13/09, 11:20 AM

On my spreadsheet in the gear planner section, the entire helms section, a couple items in the hands section, the entire trinket, ring, and shoulder section are all coming up as #N/A. I don't have any idea wahts causing this seeing as I haven't done anything differently than I did before.