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Old 08/24/08, 11:24 AM   #61
Indora
Von Kaiser
 
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Draenei Hunter
 
Azshara (EU)
You forgot to hide the numerous calculations on the right side of the priority table. ^^

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Old 08/24/08, 11:29 AM   #62
Shandara
Great Tiger
 
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Night Elf Hunter
 
Azjol-Nerub (EU)
Originally Posted by Indora View Post
You forgot to hide the numerous calculations on the right side of the priority table. ^^
I also noted I broke exporting/importing somehow. C'est la vie.

I'm not locking the sheet out of any sense of keeping it to myself, I just find it handy so I don't accidentally touch cells/sheets and delete/modify stuff without noticing.

On a different note, Arcane Shot and Multi-shot seem to be falling behind again as I fix/change things. But this is mostly due the unknown armor levels I guess in the case of Arcane Shot.

And I repeat my entreaty to whoever is in the beta to check their class base stats and base pet stats so I can add them to the spreadsheet.

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Old 08/25/08, 7:43 AM   #63
Shandara
Great Tiger
 
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Night Elf Hunter
 
Azjol-Nerub (EU)
Update:
- Added Datamined WotLK Mail Gear - only blue quality or better
- Added Stamina to the list of calculated attributes
- Added some WotLK Leather Gear - only blue quality or better
- Added all relevant mined Gems
- Gems with haste or ArP now are properly added to the gear tab
- I've set Boss Armor to 12,000 for target as a guesstimate of boss armor in WotLK
- Added WotLK Enchants, LW enchants, etc..
- Added WotLK Mining/Skinning profession perks (+stamina/+crit)
- Fixed Armory Import
- Master Tactician now has a 10% chance to proc instead of 6%
- Fixed Unleashed rage
- Added Glyph of Hunter's Mark (currently works on both base and bonus stack)
- Fixed Import/Export (hopefully for the last time)
- Removed green-quality TBC gems from the list
I've not really been extensive on adding gear, especially leather. Let me know if you want specific items added.

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Old 08/25/08, 9:47 AM   #64
Indora
Von Kaiser
 
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Draenei Hunter
 
Azshara (EU)
It really looks like Marksman will be the future raidtree (As long as you have enough mana...)

Btw, why do you still create a HasteLookUp table?
I think calculating Dps per Haste, Haste Softcap & Dps per Haste after Softcap is enough, you aren't using the Haste Table to calculate Itemvalues anyway.

Oh, and you forgot to unlock the Gathering Skill selection.

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Old 08/25/08, 10:37 AM   #65
Shandara
Great Tiger
 
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Night Elf Hunter
 
Azjol-Nerub (EU)
For mana usage, the figures aren't really realistic, since I have no information on base mana pools at level 80, so I'm still using level 70 figures, thus making the abilities really cheap.

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Old 08/25/08, 3:26 PM   #66
Cranch
Don Flamenco
 
Dwarf Hunter
 
Perenolde
Thanks for the work so far, including fixing the armory import!

One thing I noticed is that you don't turn off or reset autoshot when doing an aimed shot. For example, putting in aimed shot as the only shot in the shot rotation should drop autoshot dps by about a third, but it doesn't (tried it on v59.)

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Old 08/25/08, 4:43 PM   #67
Shandara
Great Tiger
 
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Night Elf Hunter
 
Azjol-Nerub (EU)
Originally Posted by Cranch View Post
Thanks for the work so far, including fixing the armory import!

One thing I noticed is that you don't turn off or reset autoshot when doing an aimed shot. For example, putting in aimed shot as the only shot in the shot rotation should drop autoshot dps by about a third, but it doesn't (tried it on v59.)
Is this still the same on beta then?

If it is, it's easy to implement.

EDIT:
Never mind, this question has just been answered in the WotLK Hunter thread.

EDIT2:
Should be added to next release.

EDIT3:
Small bug-fix update and addendum:
- Added calculations for pet health and armor and dodge (mostly guesstimates until we know the scaling/base levels)
- Added Commanding Shout to pet buffs
- Implemented Wolverine Bite
- Changed Rabid to a 45 sec Cooldown, 30 duration and modified calculations
- Changed Furious Howl to a 5% damage bonus on next attack (averaged over the # of attacks during the frequency it is used)
- Using Aimed Shot in the rotation penalizes Auto Shot dps by the amount of time spent casting aimed shot over the frequency used
- Gathering profession perks can be changed now

Last edited by Shandara : 08/25/08 at 4:59 PM.


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Old 08/26/08, 10:55 AM   #68
Ravenfire
Piston Honda
 
Dwarf Hunter
 
Stormrage
Shandara,

Some new info on wild quiver for you; the proc deals nature damage and thus is not likely affected by armor. This info comes from the beta boards and at this time I don't know if it is supposed to deal Nature damage or physical damage (it is being reported as a possible bug due to the nature damage). I'll try and do some Doc. Boom tests during my lunch period to see if the WQ proc is directly related to the damage dealt by the Auto shot that procs it, or a static amount based on weapon damage. In the same vien I'll try and varify whether or not AS crits can proc WQ. I'll also try to check if WQ's damage is effected by debuffs that increase nature damage though that might be a stretch for my lunch break. =)

Edit: Bad grammer is bad.

Edit 2: WoWhead shows the spell "Wild Quiver Auto Shot" as dealing Nature damage and 60% of weapon damage. So I suspect that the bonus damage value will not be related to the AS that procs it crit or otherwise. It remains to be seen if WQ can crit on its own accord, though I highly doubt it.

Edit 3: Your current Wild Quiver "Damage per Shot added" calculations contain an error. Your calculation is: (# procs * Ave. AS damage * 0.6) / (60 / Total static haste) IE. your using H25 instead of H26 under that 60. This should be varifiable be the following equation: Ave. AS damage * 0.6 * 0.1
IMO its not worth correcting at this time due to the likely hood of Wild Quiver needing to be totally reworked to; not count AS crits as part of its damage, account debuffs (if applicable), and how WQ crits are calculated (if applicable).

Last edited by Ravenfire : 08/26/08 at 11:52 AM.

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Old 08/26/08, 11:35 AM   #69
Juggernaught
Glass Joe
 
Orc Hunter
 
Thunderhorn (EU)
I noticed that Frenzy didn't seem to be efffecting my total dps.

On the "Pet" tab, cell C7 (Base DPS) is pointing at 'Pet Calculations'!F24. F24 is the base damgae of the pet's attack, not the dps of the pet's attack which is why the Frenzy talent seems to have no effect. It should be pointing to 'Pet Calculations'!F25 if I'm not mistaken.

EDIT
Ah, this also explains somewhat why Cobra Reflexes seems to take a big cunk of pet dps. The damage decrease is being counted, but not the speed increase.

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Old 08/26/08, 11:59 AM   #70
Shandara
Great Tiger
 
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Night Elf Hunter
 
Azjol-Nerub (EU)
Originally Posted by Juggernaught View Post
I noticed that Frenzy didn't seem to be efffecting my total dps.

On the "Pet" tab, cell C7 (Base DPS) is pointing at 'Pet Calculations'!F24. F24 is the base damgae of the pet's attack, not the dps of the pet's attack which is why the Frenzy talent seems to have no effect. It should be pointing to 'Pet Calculations'!F25 if I'm not mistaken.

EDIT
Ah, this also explains somewhat why Cobra Reflexes seems to take a big cunk of pet dps. The damage decrease is being counted, but not the speed increase.
Cheers,

I've been moving stuff around and this cell displacement must've slipped, hehe. And because it pointed to a valid cell it didn't bug. This means a big dps boost for my popular BM spec again.

On a related note, does anyone know the exact amount Cobra Reflexes reduces damage by on beta?

Originally Posted by Ravenfire View Post
Edit 3: Your current Wild Quiver "Damage per Shot added" calculations contain an error. Your calculation is: (# procs * Ave. AS damage * 0.6) / (60 / Total static haste) IE. your using H25 instead of H26 under that 60. This should be varifiable be the following equation: Ave. AS damage * 0.6 * 0.1
IMO its not worth correcting at this time due to the likely hood of Wild Quiver needing to be totally reworked to; not count AS crits as part of its damage, account debuffs (if applicable), and how WQ crits are calculated (if applicable).
You're correct, I'm not sure why Wild Quiver is like this in the sheet, but it's one of the first 'new' things I added back when I took over and it shows. Your suggestion will do for now until we know exactly how Wild Quiver works.

I'm guessing it is _supposed_ to be part of auto-shot damage and be purely physical dps, at least reading the tooltip suggests that.

Last edited by Shandara : 08/26/08 at 12:07 PM.


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Old 08/26/08, 12:06 PM   #71
Lactose
Don Lactose
 
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Tauren Hunter
 
Talnivarr (EU)
It seems to be identical to live. Posting something Cheeky had in some other thread/forum:

Originally Posted by Cheeky
Carrion Bird at Content (100% happiness only) - 191-219 Damage, 2.0 speed, 102.5 dps pre-Cobra Reflexes. with Cobra Reflexes - 159-187 Damage, 1.54 speed, 112.7 dps. (Cheeky - seems pretty similar to live, 30% speed, 85% damage.)

Look, Lactose, we'd rather you didn't eradicate the whole human race.
- Sam & Max

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Old 08/26/08, 12:20 PM   #72
Shandara
Great Tiger
 
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Night Elf Hunter
 
Azjol-Nerub (EU)
Made a small update:
- The Pet tab now uses the correct pet melee attack dps
- Fixed Wild Quiver to be actually doing what I intended.
- Cobra Reflexes reduces auto-attack pet damage by 15% instead of 30% now
It's made me doubt the numbers a bit though. BM pets doing more than 1000 dps over non-BM pets (with full raid buffs, I don't really know yet whether having all those at the same time is feasible, I doubt it really).

It mostly comes from the AP scaling on melee attacks. Pets get a sick amount of buffs that improve AP and it shows in their melee attack damage.

Edit:
That said, we have pets in TBC doing 600-700 dps on certain encounters already, so it mustn't be that far-fetched.


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Old 08/26/08, 2:52 PM   #73
Ravenfire
Piston Honda
 
Dwarf Hunter
 
Stormrage
Well my lunch period was.... productive but frustrating.

Test information
My level: 72
Dr. Boom: 68
RAP: 3007 (TSA & Hawk self buffs)
Crit %: 25.9
Spell Crit %: 10.9
damage range: 1007 - 1184
Talents: MM Limited build
No debuffs were put on Dr. Boom.

Things I learned:

1) /combatlog on beta doesn't seem to actually make a WoWcombatlog.txt file... Any help with this would be greatly appreciated.

2) Wild Quiver can and does proc off of any Auto Shot hits be they crits/blocked/normal.

3) The damage done by the Auto Shot that procs WQ doesn't appear to have any bearing on the damage dealt by the bonus shot; A verification of sorts for Wowhead's spell data: [Weapon % Dmg] Value: 60. And yes, it does do Nature damage.

4) Wild Quiver bonus shots do NOT use ammo (arrow stack doesn't decrease in size), and has no flight annimation despite having a firing annimation. No combat log means I cannot varify whether it is instant or has a flight time.

5) Wild Quiver CAN crit. Since I some how failed at making a Combatlog.txt file, I cannot get a realistic crit chance but my impression is that it is using Spell crit.

6) Not sure how Wild Quiver is calculating regular damage, but it appears critical strike damage is based on the physical crit damage modifier of 100%. Non crit range I saw was 512 - 584. Crit range was 1050 - 1268. I did not see a single instance of a WQ proc doing over 600 unless it was a crit, Based on the talents I ran this test with I am unsure as to how WQ crits are being calculated either


Future tests:
a) does Mortal Stirkes affect WQ crits
b) does Imp. Stings affect WQ (via nature damage)
c) does RWS affect WQ
d) does Marked for Death affect WQ
e) does Imp. Tracking affect WQ
f) does Focused Fire affect WQ


EDIT: Fixed a typo on one of my numbers.

Update: After playing around with Numbers for a bit I have a rough equation that matches the results I saw. While Weapon Damage is normally calculated as: [(Low end + high end)/2 + (ammo dps * base weapon speed) + (RAP / 14 * base weapon speed)], it appears that Wild Quiver ignores ammo quality when calculating weapon damage for purposes of it's damage as follows: [(low end + high end)/2 + (RAP / 14 * base weapon speed)]

Example: With Golden Bow of Quel'thalas, Timeless Arrows (which is what I used for my test)
w/ammo low end ---> 204 + (53 * 3) + (3007 / 14 * 3) = 1007 * 0.6 = ~604
w/ammo high end ---> 380 + (53 * 3) + (3007 / 14 * 3) = 1184 * 0.6 = ~710

w/o ammo low end ---> 204 + (3007 / 14 * 3) = 848.36 * 0.6 = ~509 * 2 = ~1018
w/o ammo high end ---> 380 + (3007 / 14 * 3) = 1024.36 * 0.6 = ~614 * 2 = ~1228

This covers the WQ range I saw for non crits (512 - 584) and also very nearly covers the crit range (1050 - 1268) assuming a pure 100% bonus damage on crits. The fact that it appears to not use ammo quality in its equation makes sence due to WQ not consuming any ammo when it actually procs.


UPDATE 2:

I went and conducted 3 more Dr. Boom tests last night, or I should say reconducted one and did two additional tests. Each test was 50 WQ procs worth of data, for a total of 150 controlled environment Wild Quiver procs. One third was conducted as a base line test, one third was conducted as a base line + maxxed Hunter's Mark test, and one third was conducted with a full compliment of "hopeful" talents and a maxxed Hunter's Mark. Talent builds for each test case will be included in this update.

Disclaimers: 50 procs per test doesn't seem like a big enough sample size to really verify all possible talents that have an impact on WQ, however 50 procs is 2-3 Dr. Boom's worth of auto shots and a significant amount of time (roughly 40 minutes per test). As for Crit chance purposes, all three tests can be combined due to a constant crit chance across all three tests of 25.9%, thus a total test pool of 150 procs.

Summarized Results

Test 1; Base Line
Talents: Base Line Test
Proc Break Down:
AS normals AS Crits WQ normals WQ Crits
36* 14 42** 8
Minimum
687 1444 513 1111
Maximum
802 1648 611 1264
Median
745 1555.5 575 1210.5
Average
743.9 1554.9 566.5 1197.1
Expected Averages (Hypotheticals)
743.9*** 1510.2 561.8 1140.5

* 2 AS were blocked for 49 damage each
** 3 WQ were blocked for 49 damage each
*** I used the [AS average seen]/[pre armor AS average] to find the effects of armor reduction to be 32%.

Note: Previously I had stated that the range of normals was covered and the crit range was vertually covered. I know now that the crit range IS covered. I forgot that I had a +3% crit damage Meta in my helm and once I took it into account the hypothetical crit range lines up perfectly with initial crit range I saw. I also was conducting this test barely into lvl 72 and as such my bow skill wasn't maxed out for my level. Blocked damage amounts were added back into the actual hit values to improve the accuracey of the data.

Test 2, Base Line with a Maxxed out Hunter's Mark
Talents: Base Line & Hunter's Mark
Proc Break Down:
AS normals AS Crits WQ normals WQ Crits
36* 14 32 18
Minimum
835 1631 647 1298
Maximum
976 1990 768 1570
Median
921.5 1842.5 702.5 1474
Average
921.6 1839.4 709.0 1472.6
Expected Averages (Hypotheticals)
918.6 1864.7 716.1 1453.7

* 3 AS blocked for 49 each

Conclusion of test: Hunter's Mark DOES effect the damage of Wild Quiver.

Test 3, Full Talent effects
Talents: Full Talent Set
An explanation is needed here. Due to careful planning of talent point distribution, I figured it would be possible to test all the talents at once so long as no talent gave the same Hypothetical bonus values to WQ. Thus; 1% from Imp. Tracking, 2% from Focused Fire, 5% from RWS, 10% from Marked for Death, 30% from Imp. Stings, and 30% crit bonus from Mortal Shots.

Proc Break Down:
AS normals AS Crits WQ normals WQ Crits
36 14 38 12
Minimum
975 2378 744 1812
Maximum
1229 2950 871 2093
Median
1026 2531.5 809.5 1973.5
Average
1041.2 2546.2 807.7 1961.3

Right away I can see that Imp. Sting has zero impact on WQ and that WQ gains full benefits from Mortal Shot. I believe that Imp. Tracking doesn't work at the moment in Beta so I'll calculate the expected averages based on that also. Modifiers in use (non crit): 1.02 * 1.05 * 1.1
Modifiers in use (crit): 1.02 * 1.05 * 1.1 * 2.339

Expected Averages (Hypotheticals)
1082.2 2531.2 843.6 1973.2

With the average numbers significantly less then 10% off from the expected values, Marked for Death is confirmed as having an impact on WQ proc values. I do feel reasonably sure that RWS does impact WQ and while I strongly suspect that FF also impacts WQ; with the sample size I conducted this test for, the margin of error for the results forces me call the evidence inconclusive.

Critical Chance of WQ
Since all 3 tests were conducted with the same ranged critical strike chance of 25.9%, I can combine all 3 sets of data for a larger and thus more accurate calculation.
Crit Chance Data:
150 procs
8 + 18 + 12 = 38 Crits
38 / 150 = 0.25333 or a 25.33 Crit rate

This is significantly close enough to my ranged crit chance for me to call it the same, thus; WQ uses Ranged Critical Strike Chance as its own.

Last edited by Ravenfire : 08/27/08 at 11:38 AM. Reason: Added WQ test results

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Old 08/27/08, 11:03 AM   #74
Juggernaught
Glass Joe
 
Orc Hunter
 
Thunderhorn (EU)
Sniper Training seems a bit broken.

It should increase the damage of Steady, Aimed and Explosive shots by 2%/4%/6% and give 5% crit to Kill shot on targets below 30% health.

From what I can see Snipe training in the spreadsheet is currently adding 5%/10%/15% to Kill Shot and Explosive Shot.

------------------EDIT
Also seems tha a number of pet talents have the wrong CD and focus values. Demo Screech (Carrion Bird) and Pin (Crab) are two that I spotted - I'm using Hunter - WotlkWiki - Wrath of the Lich King Information as reference.

Also Furious Howl doesn't seem to do anything - should be 5% extra damage on next attack for all party members.

Last edited by Juggernaught : 08/27/08 at 11:45 AM.

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Old 08/27/08, 12:19 PM   #75
Shandara
Great Tiger
 
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Night Elf Hunter
 
Azjol-Nerub (EU)
Originally Posted by Juggernaught View Post
Sniper Training seems a bit broken.

It should increase the damage of Steady, Aimed and Explosive shots by 2%/4%/6% and give 5% crit to Kill shot on targets below 30% health.

From what I can see Snipe training in the spreadsheet is currently adding 5%/10%/15% to Kill Shot and Explosive Shot.

------------------EDIT
Also seems tha a number of pet talents have the wrong CD and focus values. Demo Screech (Carrion Bird) and Pin (Crab) are two that I spotted - I'm using Hunter - WotlkWiki - Wrath of the Lich King Information as reference.

Also Furious Howl doesn't seem to do anything - should be 5% extra damage on next attack for all party members.
Cheers,

The Sniper Training should be fixed next release.

Furious Howl should be working, but I average the effect over the attacks done during the cooldown so the effect is barely noticeable. I have, however, no other way of representing the 'on next attack' effect, because there's no way to predict or model which attacks receives it.

The way I do it is as follows:

You/your pet do X attacks per second, the cooldown is Y; so X*Y = Z attacks made over the cooldown time.
Each of those Z attacks gains an equal share of the 5% damage bonus.

That bonus is added to the hunter/pet's damage adjustments on the calculations tab.


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