WotLK DPS spreadsheet - Page 5

Chul · 09/04/08, 3:40 AM

Was reading WoWhead comments for Chimera Shot and noticed this comment:

An Interesting thing is that while the 125% of weapon damage is reduced by Armor, the 40% of Serpent Sting isn't, so this essentially ignores 30% of Armor Reduction....

(Bold mine)

Looking at your spreadsheet, I didn't see where you adjusted the weapon damage for armour.

Shandara · 09/04/08, 3:45 AM

I was under the impression that Chimera Shot ignored armor completely. Did they fix the base damage to deal physical damage now?

KraxisSingular · 09/04/08, 8:56 AM

Originally Posted by Shandara

I was under the impression that Chimera Shot ignored armor completely. Did they fix the base damage to deal physical damage now?

I believe it was just a bug from the combination of the Chimera part and the sting part. Just like stings removed all armor on targets. In any case, 125% weapon damage plus 40% sting damage as nature is a pretty hefty ability.

Dedmon · 09/04/08, 10:19 AM

Just wanted to add my thanks also. Keep up the good work!

muwatallis · 09/04/08, 11:14 AM

Thank you for beginning this work. Just some small details that took my attention:

- Improved Arcane Shot is still 5/5, should be 3/3 and the new 15% ArS damage increase.
- The second talent point of Hunting Party is missing, it goes like 0/1/3/4/5
- The currently known glyphs are missing.

Maybe you are working on these already, just wanted to remind.

Ravenfire · 09/04/08, 12:07 PM

Originally Posted by muwatallis

Thank you for beginning this work. Just some small details that took my attention:

- Improved Arcane Shot is still 5/5, should be 3/3 and the new 15% ArS damage increase.
- The second talent point of Hunting Party is missing, it goes like 0/1/3/4/5
- The currently known glyphs are missing.

Maybe you are working on these already, just wanted to remind.

You might check to see if you have the most recent version for points 1 and 3 though I can confirm that Hunting Party is indeed missing talent point #2 on its drop down menu.

EDIT: On the buffs tab, Curse of the Elements is always on even when selected to off.

EDIT #2: Shandara, it appears as thought the Dwarf stats got put as Draenei stats by mistake.

Shandara · 09/04/08, 6:45 PM

Originally Posted by KraxisSingular

I believe it was just a bug from the combination of the Chimera part and the sting part. Just like stings removed all armor on targets. In any case, 125% weapon damage plus 40% sting damage as nature is a pretty hefty ability.

Two questions pop to mind then:
1) Does target debuffs like Curse of Elements affect only the sting part now?
2) Does Improved Steady Shot only affect the base damage?

I'm assuming points 1+2 are how it is, but I'd like to have confirmation from beta testers.

Ravenfire · 09/04/08, 7:42 PM

Originally Posted by Shandara

Two questions pop to mind then:
1) Does target debuffs like Curse of Elements affect only the sting part now?
2) Does Improved Steady Shot only affect the base damage?

I'm assuming points 1+2 are how it is, but I'd like to have confirmation from beta testers.

Part of what i've been working on this past week has been varifying a reasonable equation that generates on paper what i am seeing in the game. A large part of the problem is that wowhead's spell details on Chimera mention the following three effects:

Effect #1: [Normalized Weapon Damage +]
Effect #2: [Weapon % Dmg] Value: 125
Effect #3: [Script Effect]

I am assuming that the third effect is the sting being refreshed and the second effect is realtively easy to account for. My problem is with the normalizing. I am having a hard time with it. I also suffered miserably trying to get an accurate equation due to a setback I've only now figured out was affecting all of my paper results. I actually found the flaw in my calculations while trying to solve why my paper Serpent Sting calculations wouldn't match in game damage results. Turns out that Hunter's Mark is currently giving ZERO rap. On the plus side I am now able to confirm that Marked for Death's "Increases your damage done by your shots..." also boosts Serpent Sting.

As for the points you raise Shandara...

1) Both CS-Base and CS-Serpent deal nature damage. It would be insanely strange for CotE to NOT have an effect on both. A better question would be: Does CotE basically allow for double dipping via boosting the damage the sting is ticking for and then boosting the CS-Serpent also?
2) A VERY vaild question and could even be extended to Rapid Killing (changed from effecting Auto Shot to Chimera Shot). Since Imp. SS gives a buff that, as far as I know, acts exactly like Rapid Killing where the buff is applied at the firing of any affected shots and lost at the time the first affected shot hits the target, the range (travel time) to the target could be important. I think Chimera Shot's secondary effect only fires off when the base shot hits the target which would negate any potential for the secondary effect to benefit from Imp. SS procs. I also wonder if Chimera Shot's secondary effect having a different name from the base effect in the combat log might have an impact.

Side Note: At the moment Chimera Shot's refresh of Serpent Sting allows for "trinket" rolling of Serpent Sting. The refresh appears to merely resets the duration of the sting to 15 seconds (Glyph of Serpent Sting unfortunately does not increase the refresh length and thus is worthless for MM builds ATM) and does NOT recalculate the Sting's damage from any additional buffs/debuffs on either the hunter or target that were added since the time the sting was applied.

Anyways... I've got another Chimera shot test phase planned for tonight so I'll try and get you some definative answers.

Jamuka · 09/05/08, 2:41 AM

Looks like excellent work so far.

I apologize if these issues has been thoroughly vetted before, but I wrote a little program to look at the benefit of Master Tactician and I came across a few things I hadn't ever seen brought up. I was writing the program because I noticed that people always seem concerned with what percentage of the time MT is up, which is relatively easy to calculate, but doesn't necessarily accurately reflect what percentage of the shots you fire benefit from MT.

When writing the program the first question I came to was whether the shot that procs MT benefits from the increased crit. This obviously would have a noticeable impact on its usefulness, but I am not familiar with any way to actually test this. If this is common knowledge to people I apologize, but I have never seen it discussed.

I went ahead and wrote the program to my own satisfaction, and there was a noticeable difference between the percentage of time MT was up and the percentage of shots that benefited from it. The percentage of shots benefiting from MT was a little over 3% higher than the percentage of time MT was up in the case that the shot proccing MT is affected by it, while the percentage of shots benefiting from MT was a little over 3% lower than the percentage of time Mt was up in the case that the shot proccing MT is not affected by it. For instance, one of the runs I did showed a 61.07% up time, with 63.09% of shots benefiting when the proccing shot benefits, while one of the runs I did without the proccing shot benefiting showed a 60.34% up time, with 58.53% of shots benefiting.

This would pan out to MT averaging out to a few tenths of a percentage of crit higher or lower than the value calculated based on up time. I'm not really sure of a good way to model that without taking as a shot-by-shot basis, but felt like it was something that at least warranted some consideration.

Shandara · 09/05/08, 2:35 PM

Update:

- Curse of Elements now properly turns off when you deselect it on the Buffs tab
- Dwarf stats now in the proper place (instead of Draenei), I've extrapolated the other levels, based on available reports, feel free to correct them.
- Changed Chimera shot: Base damage affected by armor and Improved Steady Shot/Curse of Elements, sting part affected by Curse of Elements and ignores armor.
- Fixed Mana regen, it was counting some buffs/talents double
- Added Mighty Mageblood Elixir

I've fixed some major bugs with the mana regen calculations, it was counting some buffs double so hopefully values should be more realistic now.

As for Master Tactician, without a shot by shot rotation and, in fact, a simulation there's no way to model that really.

Ravenfire · 09/05/08, 3:00 PM

Disclaimer
Long post with lots of numbers, logic, bugs, and potential bugs discussed.

Introduction
I set out last night to thoroughly test Chimera Shot and its mechanics with the hope of figuring out an equation that closely mimicked in game results. I got sidetracked and ended up running 8 tests on Serpent Sting, then 8 tests on Arcane Shot, before finally running 8 tests on JUST Chimera Shot – Serpent (its constant, based on Serpent Sting, and should be easier to figure out then CS-Base). My results can be summed up very simply: Hunters are VERY buggy.

Information
Level: 76
Talent build: http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?hunt...10253105030351
Key stats: RAP = 3562 (with TSA and Hawk on), Hunter’s Mark Glyph (20% bonus rap)

Test Descriptions
For each of the three abilities (Serpent Sting, Arcane Shot, Chimera Shot – Serpent) I ran 8 test parameters. With the above talent build I have control over when the following three talents supposedly come into play: Focused Fire, Improved Tracking, and Marked for Death. Additionally Ranged Weapon Specialization, Improved Stings, and Improved Arcane Shot were considered constantly on depending on which ability I was testing.

Test Results for Serpent Sting (Rank 11): [RAP * 0.2 + 990]

Test #1
Assumed talents in effect: Improved Sting, RWS
Paper calculation: [3562 * 0.2 + 990] * 1.3 * 1.05 = 2323.8 / 5 = 464.7 --> 464 – 465 per tick
Beta test damage seen: 442 – 443 per tick
*Modified calculation (drop the RWS modifier): [3562 * 0.2 + 990] * 1.3 = 2213.1 / 5 = 442.6 --> 442 – 443 per tick

Test #2
Assumed talents in effect: Improved Sting, RWS, Marked for Death
Paper calculation: [(3562 + 300*1.2) * 0.2 + 990] * 1.3 * 1.05 * 1.05 = 2414.2 / 5 = 482.8 --> 482 – 483 per tick
Beta test damage seen: 465 – 466 per tick
*Modified calculation (drop HM’s rap and RWS modifier): [(3562) * 0.2 + 990] * 1.3 * 1.05 = 2323.7 / 5 = 464.7 --> 464 – 465 per tick

Test #3
Assumed talents in effect: Improved Sting, RWS, Improved Tracking
Paper calculation: [(3562) * 0.2 + 990] * 1.3 * 1.05 * 1.05 = 2439.96 / 5 = 487.9 --> 487 – 488 per tick
Beta test damage seen: 487 – 488 per tick
*Modified calculation: No change to previous paper calculation

Test #4
Assumed talents in effect: Improved Sting, RWS, Focused Fire
Paper calculation: [(3562) * 0.2 + 990] * 1.3 * 1.05 * 1.02 = 2370.3 / 5 = 474.1 --> 474 – 475 per tick
Beta test damage seen: 451 – 452 per tick
*Modified calculation (drop RWS modifier): [(3562) * 0.2 + 990] * 1.3 * 1.02 = 2257.3 / 5 = 451.4 --> 451 – 452 per tick

Test #5
Assumed talents in effect: Improved Sting, RWS, Improved Tracking, Marked for Death
Paper calculation: [(3562 + 300 * 1.2) * 0.2 + 990] * 1.3 * 1.05 * 1.05 * 1.05 = 2670.3 / 5 = 534.1 --> 534 – 535 per tick
Beta test damage seen: 512 – 513 per tick
*Modified calculation (drop HM’s rap): [(3562) * 0.2 + 990] * 1.3 * 1.05 * 1.05 * 1.05 = 2561.9 / 5 = 512.4 --> 512 – 513 per tick

Test #6
Assumed talents in effect: Improved Sting, RWS, Focused Fire, Marked for Death
Paper calculation: [(3562 + 300 * 1.2) * 0.2 + 990] * 1.3 * 1.05 * 1.02 * 1.05 = 2594 / 5 = 518.8 --> 518 – 519 per tick
Beta test damage seen: 475– 476 per tick
*Modified calculation (drop HM’s rap and RWS modifier): [(3562) * 0.2 + 990] * 1.3 * 1.02 * 1.05 = 2370.2 / 5 = 474.1 --> 474 – 475 per tick

Test #7
Assumed talents in effect: Improved Sting, RWS, Focused Fire, Improved Tracking
Paper calculation: [(3562) * 0.2 + 990] * 1.3 * 1.05 * 1.02 * 1.05 = 2488.7 / 5 = 497.8 --> 497 – 498 per tick
Beta test damage seen: 497 – 498 per tick
*Modified calculation: No change to previous paper calculation

Test #8
Assumed talents in effect: Improved Sting, RWS, Focused Fire, Improved Tracking, Marked for Death
Paper calculation: [(3562 + 300*1.2) * 0.2 + 990] * 1.3 * 1.05 * 1.02 * 1.05 * 1.05 = 2723.7 / 5 = 544.7 --> 544 – 545 per tick
Beta test damage seen: 522 – 523 per tick
*Modified calculation (drop HM’s rap): [(3562) * 0.2 + 990] * 1.3 * 1.05 * 1.02 * 1.05 * 1.05 = 2613.2 / 5 = 522.6 --> 522 – 523 per tick

Only tests 3 and 7 matched on paper what I was seeing in beta. They have two things in common that none of the other tests have: Improved Tracking and no Marked for death. All the other tests either don’t have Imp Tracking or do have MfD. Tests 5 and 8 beta results match the paper calculations if Hunter’s Mark RAP is ignored. By doing so all tests that have Imp tracking on match beta results to paper results. It took me a while to figure out what the tests that didn’t have Imp Tracking were doing but basically it turns out that Imp. Tracking also determines whether or not Serpent Sting benefits from RWS.

Conclusion of Serpent Sting Tests
Serpent Sting gains zero RAP from Hunter’s Mark. Improved Tracking is either somehow turning RWS on/off with it or (as I think is proven below) is being applied twice while RWS has no effect at all. See stared modified calculations for each test’s modified calculations.

Arcane Shot and Chimera Shot - Serpent Tests
These results got me wondering if Hunter’s Mark was currently giving zero rap or if it was just Serpent Sting not getting any benefit from it. To test this I did the same 8 tests with Arcane Shot. In the interest of keeping this post somewhat short, I’m not going to present numbers and calculations here though anyone that would like the numbers can send me a request via PM with their email and I’ll send them the spread sheet with the results. Long story short: HM not only gives arcane shot 300 rap modified by the HM glyph, it also appears to get all RAP modifiers (TSA, MasterMark, SurvInst.) applied to the HM’s rap as well. RWS appears to work correctly at all times with Arcane shot lending credence to the idea that RWS has no impact on Serpent Sting. Improved Tracking further lends credence to that idea via its apparent double dipping for Arcane shot.

Since I was testing an ability that could crit, I decided to go ahead and check those calculations. While doing so I noticed several oddities. The first one was all crits were doing more damage then they should have been. After a bit of playing around and one stroke of genius later, I determined that it appears that Imp. Tracking still contains the old slaying talent’s 3% crit bonus damage (or its double dipping on my meta gem but that was very easily disproved) and that it is constantly there very much like Marked for Death’s crit bonus damage is. The second oddity I ran into was that when ever Improved Tracking is on I got significantly higher crit damage then expected. For example one test run was giving me normal hits of 1273 and crits of 3028 (tracking off), while a different test run was giving me normal hits of 1243 and crits of 3291 (tracking on). The common factor in these cases was, again, Improved Tracking. The best I could come up with is that if Improved Tracking is not on then I got 3% bonus crit damage from the talent, but when I did have Improved Tracking on I got 23% bonus crit damage. I have no clue where all this bonus damage is coming from. I just know for sure that IF Imp. Tracking is on I crit for ~23% more damage then I should and if Imp. Tracking is off I only crit for ~3% more damage then I should.

After testing both Serpent Sting and Arcane shot I figured I’d go ahead and test Chimera – Serpent to see if I could figure out what it does. This is somewhat easier to do then Chimera Shot – Base due to my new found knowledge on how Serpent Sting is working and my ability to exactly predict what damage serpent sting would do in each test case. Again for brevity’s sake I’ll skip all the myriad of failed and inaccurate calculations I tried. Although the resulting equation is vastly different then what the tooltip hints at it does yield results for all cases that are as close as I’ve come to predicting the damage CS-S will do. I should note that it appears that Chimera Shot – Serpent follows the same modifiers that Serpent Sting does (no RWS and double Imp. Tracking) with one exception, Improved Stings does not apply. All that said, it appears CS-S uses the following equation: [RAP * 0.2 + 990] * 0.4 * 2 * Chimera Modifiers

Example #1
No FF, Imp Tracking, or MfD
[3562 * 0.2 + 990] * 0.4 * 2 = 1361.92
Beta Results for this test run was a consistent 1362

Example #2
With FF, Imp Tracking, and MfD
[3562 * 0.2 + 990] * 0.4 * 2 = 1361.92
1361.92 * 1.02 * (1.05 * 1.05) * 1.05 = 1608.1
Beta Results for this test run was a consistent 1609

With CS-S being able to critically hit, I also did calculations for what crit bonuses it receives. I saw the same oddities in CS-S crits as I did in Arcane Shot crits. As such I found the following critical modifiers apply: Meta Gem’s 3% crit damage. Imp Tracking’s hidden 3% crit damage when off, Imp Tracking’s hidden 23% crit damage when on. Key things to note about critical CS-S hits: Mortal Shots does not apply and neither does Marked for Death (at least not to the secondary damage, it is likely they both apply to CS-Base though).

Final Conclusion
Hunters are VERY VERY bugged. I’m waiting till the next patch to retest all the above and start Chimera base damage tests (especially since a blue posted late yesterday that they had just done a big bug fix sweep).

Wanting to buy next patch already,
Ravenfire

P.S. CS-S can NOT get the Imp. SS proc bonus due to the way it fires when CS-Base hits. It still might be possible to get Rapid Killing’s bonus damage for CS-S but it would require fighting multiple mobs and impeccable timing. Something I am not inclined to test right now. Consider this a confirmation of Question #2. Question #1 I can try and get answered tonight if I have time (Sunwell/BT raid night) and can find a lock/moonkin willing to help.

EDIT: I just thought of a reasonable explination for what CS-S is doing. It might just be applying itself twice, once for the old sting and again for the refreshed sting. Though it is disappointing that it appears to be using pre modified serpent sting damage and not final sting damage.

Ravenfire · 09/05/08, 3:01 PM

Fixed the issue with what i thought was a post limit... please delete.

Shandara · 09/06/08, 3:36 AM

Small update:

- Added Tier7 Naxxramas(10) gear and 3 weapons
- Added Core Hound as Exotic Pet with skill Lava Breath

Addendum:
- Added more Naxx loots

Ravenfire · 09/06/08, 4:27 PM

New build, new results.

I re-did all 24 tests I posted about previously and got a nice update for you Shandara.

Serpent Sting
Imp Stings works properly
RAP from Hunter's Mark is now being applied to Serpent Sting and gains all RAP % modifiers (300 * glyph * HM talent * Survival Instinct * Master Marksmen * TSA)
Marked for Death no longer increases Sting damage
Imp. Tracking is no longer double dipping (just a 5% increase now)
RWS still does nothing for Stings (disappointing)
Focused Fire works properly
Glyph Works properly

Arcane Shot
Imp Arcane shot works properly
Imp Tracking when off still grants 3% bonus damage to critical strikes
Imp Tracking when on grants 5% damage to normal hits and an additional 10% bonus damage (13% total) to critical strikes
Hunter's Mark works the same as it does for Serpent Sting
Marked for Death grants 5% damage to AS when the target is marked (on top of the RAP HM grants)

Chimera Shot - Serpent
Is now taking POST modified Serpent Sting damage and hits noticably harder (previously with every % damage mod on, CS-S was hitting for just over 1600 non crit. It now is hitting for just over 2000 non crit)
Glyph of Serpent Sting still has no impact on CS-S in any form (15 second refreshed durations, no bonus damage)
Still does 40% sting x2 for damage
no longer gets ANY % modifiers applied to CS-S on normal hits
Meta Gems grant 3% bonus critical damage
Imp. Tracking grants 3% bonus damage when off
Imp. tracking grants 13% bonus damage when on
Marked for Death has no impact on CS-S either from the "shot" damage or the "crit" damage
Mortal Shots has no impact on CS-S (VERY disappointing)

Due to the way the newest build has CS-S working and the way Curse of the Elements works (instantly increasing any sting already on the target when applied) I suspect that CS-S will not recieve any bonus from CotE directly but merely through the increased damage of the sting. The damn servers are so unstable I feel lucky to have even finished retesting all 24 test cases. At the moment I am trying to find a Warlock/moonkin willing to help out between server crashes so i can test CotE/EnM.

EDIT: I just got lucky and found a lock. CotE applies to Serpent Sting. The new post modified Serpent Sting is then used to calculate CS-S. CS-S does not double dip CotE (as i suspected). It currently looks as though CS-S gains NO modifiers except for crit modifiers.

Shandara · 09/06/08, 4:46 PM

Originally Posted by Ravenfire

New build, new results.

I re-did all 24 tests I posted about previously and got a nice update for you Shandara.

Serpent Sting
Imp Stings works properly
RAP from Hunter's Mark is now being applied to Serpent Sting and gains all RAP % modifiers (300 * glyph * HM talent * Survival Instinct * Master Marksmen * TSA)

This makes me wonder whether HM * modifiers works for all our shots now, i.e. it is a general increase. Previously, Lactose had said HM didn't benefit from any RAP modifying talents (neither the base nor the stacking).

The same goes for Expose Weakness. If it is affected as well, that would be a nice bonus.

I guess the same conclusion can be drawn as before. Hunters are still very buggy. It seems unlikely they intend our talents (especially Mortal Shots) to behave in such erratic and illogical ways.

I think we can draw the following conclusions about what Blizzard wants:
* Marked for Death says 'damage done by _shots'. I.e. it's not supposed to affect stings are any sting-related damage (like CS-S)
* Mortal Shots and Ranged Weapon Specialization both specifically say 'ranged weapon'. I assume they mean direct shots and auto shots with it and not DoT based damage (i.e. stings).
* Improved Tracking is just plain bugged (it makes you wonder how the logic behind the talent system works..)
* Talents which say 'all damage' (Like Focused Fire) will affect stings
* Chimera Shot - Serpent is supposed to be a flat unmodified 40% of serpent sting's damage (i'm surprised they even let it crit for us to be honest). It's probably a bug in the logic that it does damage twice.

KraxisSingular · 09/06/08, 8:47 PM

So CS+sting component is still Nature damage? Well that is odd.

Have anyone tried using a CS with no sting? Does that do Nature too? If it does then it is safe to assume CoE should affect the shot component at least. No mean buff, as well as other nature buffs like Stormstrike.

Shandara · 09/07/08, 4:54 AM

Re-uploaded the latest version, added some more Naxx loot to it.

- Mining profession benefit is now health instead of stamina
- Marked for Death no longer affects Serpent Sting
- Added more Naxx-10 Loot

Onouris · 09/07/08, 11:43 AM

I've just been playing around with the latest spreadsheet and have a few questions about Focus and Mana Regen.

At the moment things are looking too good to be true, I tried out the pre-set build for BM you have in there and it works out as, according to the sheet, more DPS than the one I'd chosen.

The sheet is telling me that the second point in either Bestial Discipline or Go For The Throat adds no DPS whatsoever, which I don't understand. That seems to me to be saying that the pet isn't running out of focus, so it doesn't need more. Makes sense but how does a pet not run out of focus if it's spamming Bite every Global Cool-down?

Also, does Ferocious Bite take priority over Bite? They both have the same focus cost and I'd rather it was using Ferocious.

The second one is about Mana, I've been playing around and it's saying I'm never going to run out of mana. I assume that's because as you said above the mana regen calculations aren't right at the moment?

KraxisSingular · 09/07/08, 12:48 PM

Well 2/2 BD makes the focus regen add up to 48 focus every four seconds. Spamming a 25 focus ability is 50 focus every three seconds. So the difference is not too great. In three seconds a crit isn't too unlikely at raidlevel. Hence one point in GftT should be enough. I'm not certain about 1/2 BD though. But we'll see.

Shandara · 09/07/08, 1:56 PM

Bite is 25 focus every 1.5 seconds (if you don't use other abilities). Or 16.67 focus per second

Your pet's natural regen rate is 24 focus every 4 seconds. Or 6 focus per second.

So that means without any talents your pet will use Bite every 2.8 seconds.

With 2/2 Bestial Discipline it's still short 4.67 focus per second to spam it.

With ~30% crit rate, firing roughly 1,4 shots per second (steady/auto spam) you crit roughly 2,4 seconds.
That's 25 extra focus (with 1/2 GftT) or 50 extra focus every 3,5 seconds.. or 10,4 to 20,8 focus per second.

As you can see, with 2/2 GftT you have way too much (if you include the natural 6 focus per second regen) and with 1/2 GftT you just enough to spam Bite. Add another ability (like Rabid or the pet's family skill on a short CD) and you have too few.

With 1/2 BD and 1/2 GftT you regenerate 6+6*50%+10,4 = 19,4 focus per second, which is in general enough to spam Bite and other abilities as much as you want.

Get your crit rate high enough and you'll probably have enough focus with just 1 point in GftT and 0 in BD. Caveat is that these are _averages_. It is entirely possible that in a real-world test your pet will have too many streaks of low focus with just 1/2 GftT.

Chul · 09/07/08, 10:32 PM

There is a problem with how you calculate the damage reduction from armour. It is using a hardcoded value of 70 for the attacker level, rather than what you've got selected on the front page. This means that physical damage shots lose a lot more damage to armour than what should be the case, and makes magic shots look better.

Shandara · 09/08/08, 5:09 AM

Update:

- Gear Planner now supports ranged weapons, use the separate button for it.
- Redid the Gear Planner. All TBC-loot is now classed under 'The Burning Crusade' to make room for WotLK Raid dungeons
- Armor Calculations now use the correct level you selected, instead of a hardcoded level 70 value
- Added some more Naxx-10 loot

Notes:
The gear planner compares all ranged weapons with a mythical 0-0 damage/0 dps/0 stats weapon which fires at 2,8 speed. It basically tries all the weapons in the spreadsheet one by one, so it's a tad slow (takes about a minute on my Core Duo E8500).

It doesn't fiddle with ammo/quiver since those are just for flavor anyway and swapping from a gun pouch to an arrow pouch has no actual effect. It doesn't swap gems though if a weapon has sockets, but unfortunately having it check the entire gear-set for correct gems on item changes during the calculations proved to be a bit prohibitive (it slows it down considerably). I'll probably calculate the bonus damage from sockets separately in a future version.

To prepare for WotLK raid dungeons I've renamed all TBC loot to a single name 'The Burning Crusade' (instead of Sunwell/MH/etc..) which you can enable/disable on the gear planner. I plan to remove lower-level gear at some point to reduce the spreadsheet size.

What do you guys think? Personally I feel gear from these instances is basically obsolete anyway when WotLK raiding hits:
* TBC 5-man/quest gear
* Karahzan
* Gruul's Lair
* Magtheridon
* Tempest Keep
* The Eye
* Mount Hyjal
* Black Temple

Exceptions would be trinkets mostly. And maybe 1 or 2 special items.

Chul · 09/08/08, 6:16 AM

Haste from buffs is 0% if you don't specify both Windfury and Swift Retribution.

EDIT:
Another bug:

I took the base spreadsheet and loaded my gear from the armoury. It still had the +agility enchant on my non-existant offhand, and it also had 2 gems in my PvP trinket.

Also, are you planning on adding back the ability to stop the averaging out of BW, Racials, Trinkets etc that Cheeky had in his original spreadsheet?

EDIT #2:

TSA and AB stack when they shouldn't. Currently it means you can get +20% AP

Also, doesn't look like you've got Rampage (Rampage now works on ranged) or FI in the buffs section (Sanctified Retribution is there, but doesn't seem to do much).

Ebonleaf · 09/08/08, 1:18 PM

Originally Posted by Shandara

Update:

- Gear Planner now supports ranged weapons, use the separate button for it.
- Redid the Gear Planner. All TBC-loot is now classed under 'The Burning Crusade' to make room for WotLK Raid dungeons
- Armor Calculations now use the correct level you selected, instead of a hardcoded level 70 value
- Added some more Naxx-10 loot

Notes:
The gear planner compares all ranged weapons with a mythical 0-0 damage/0 dps/0 stats weapon which fires at 2,8 speed. It basically tries all the weapons in the spreadsheet one by one, so it's a tad slow (takes about a minute on my Core Duo E8500).

It doesn't fiddle with ammo/quiver since those are just for flavor anyway and swapping from a gun pouch to an arrow pouch has no actual effect. It doesn't swap gems though if a weapon has sockets, but unfortunately having it check the entire gear-set for correct gems on item changes during the calculations proved to be a bit prohibitive (it slows it down considerably). I'll probably calculate the bonus damage from sockets separately in a future version.

To prepare for WotLK raid dungeons I've renamed all TBC loot to a single name 'The Burning Crusade' (instead of Sunwell/MH/etc..) which you can enable/disable on the gear planner. I plan to remove lower-level gear at some point to reduce the spreadsheet size.

What do you guys think? Personally I feel gear from these instances is basically obsolete anyway when WotLK raiding hits:
* TBC 5-man/quest gear
* Karahzan
* Gruul's Lair
* Magtheridon
* Tempest Keep
* The Eye
* Mount Hyjal
* Black Temple

Exceptions would be trinkets mostly. And maybe 1 or 2 special items.

Alot of the stuff (BoJ, Sunwell, t5/6) is surpisingly good. There will still be some items, as you said, that will be hard to replace. (even at 80) For now, until we start seeing more gear and itemization you might leave them in.

Xyriin · 09/08/08, 1:31 PM

Originally Posted by Shandara

To prepare for WotLK raid dungeons I've renamed all TBC loot to a single name 'The Burning Crusade' (instead of Sunwell/MH/etc..) which you can enable/disable on the gear planner. I plan to remove lower-level gear at some point to reduce the spreadsheet size.

What do you guys think? Personally I feel gear from these instances is basically obsolete anyway when WotLK raiding hits:
* TBC 5-man/quest gear
* Karahzan
* Gruul's Lair
* Magtheridon
* Tempest Keep
* The Eye
* Mount Hyjal
* Black Temple

Exceptions would be trinkets mostly. And maybe 1 or 2 special items.

I think you are correct in stating that most of the gear will be obsolete. However, when WotLK goes live it will be a while before all the gear is replaced. Right off the bat it would be safe to remove BC dungeon/quest gear as those items will be rapidly replaced and in all honesty using this spreadsheet is not for the casual hunter in most cases. The t6 gear, and especially SW gear will see a bit longer lifespan and many raiders will be theorycrafting that gear in mixed sets with WotLK Naxx gear but I think there might be a simple solution to that as well. How about adding another custom gear set? You have the code already for generic custom gear, how about simply adding a duplicate of that and label it BC Custom. Maybe even BC Custom 1&2 to cover alternate gear options. All the hunters could take their final gear and manually enter it into the BC custom section and it should be a one time thing since they won't be picking up BC gear once WotLK hits. This would allow you to completely eliminate all of the BC items including those 'special' ones since everyone will have the custom gear spots to be able to retain those items.

On the other hand I'd like to suggest a possible design change for gear listing. I really think the check box filtering on the gear planner is very useful. I think it would be even more beneficial if it could be applied to the gear tab as well. In other words, if you don't have say 'Naxx10' selected in the gear planning tab then those items from Naxx10 also won't appear in the drop down selection lists in the gear tab. Once again down the road if there are one or two superior items from lower content someone could simply enter those in as custom items.

If you do decided to do some work on the Custom Gear tab some item name integration would be pretty sweet so we can tell what those numbers are for at a glance.