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Old 12/07/08, 10:17 AM   #856
dragoonvengance
Von Kaiser
 
Murloc Shaman
 
Mug'thol
Shandara,

Over in the Simple Questions thread


Originally Posted by arison View Post
It double dips from your 10%. Apparently pets get your melee AP not ranged AP (are there any items that give separate AP these days?). So, if before, your pet gained 22% of your AP (standard forumla):

Pet_AP = 0.22 * Your_Melee_AP

Now it is

Pet_AP = 1.1 * (0.22 * 1.1 * Your_Melee_AP)

Which ends up being 1.21 * 0.22 * Your_Melee_AP, or, a 21% bonus.


If this is the case could you modify the spreadsheet to calculate pet RAP off of melee rap? So we can correctly model Aspect of the Beast. After that with the wonderful power of the spreadsheet we can probably quite alot of the discussions of Beast vs DragonHawk.

Again thank you for the great work on the sheet.

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Old 12/07/08, 11:31 AM   #857
dragoonvengance
Von Kaiser
 
Murloc Shaman
 
Mug'thol
*Bug
Cobra Reflexes - The other pet trees that are not active still effect the Cobra Reflexes dmg reduction, but not the Speed.

aka if I have a tenacity pet with 0/2 in CR and have the fer tree with 2/2.
I get speed increase from CR of 100% *correct
I get Dmg redunction from CR of 85%.

If i remove the talents out of the fer tree then it goes to 100% which is correct.

Minor bug, but did confuse me for a few mins while playing with Cobra Reflexes

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Old 12/07/08, 11:35 AM   #858
dragoonvengance
Von Kaiser
 
Murloc Shaman
 
Mug'thol
Yet another question.
I thought Cobra Reflexes talent was just a speed increase and the dmg redunction would offset it equally to force it to cause no DPS gain. I thought the only point of CR was to increase uptime of Frenzy. The spreadsheet is showing 110dps gain when comparing CR 0/2 vs CR 2/2. With 5 points in Frenzy showing a uptime of 99.96% vs 99.9%

Is CR really that large of a DPS gain? If so I can't see anyone not putting 2/2 in CR regardless of how many points you have in frenzy.

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Old 12/07/08, 12:24 PM   #859
Shandara
Great Tiger
 
Shandara's Avatar
 
Night Elf Hunter
 
Azjol-Nerub (EU)
Originally Posted by dragoonvengance View Post
Yet another question.
I thought Cobra Reflexes talent was just a speed increase and the dmg redunction would offset it equally to force it to cause no DPS gain. I thought the only point of CR was to increase uptime of Frenzy. The spreadsheet is showing 110dps gain when comparing CR 0/2 vs CR 2/2. With 5 points in Frenzy showing a uptime of 99.96% vs 99.9%

Is CR really that large of a DPS gain? If so I can't see anyone not putting 2/2 in CR regardless of how many points you have in frenzy.
Cobra Reflexes is supposed to be a net DPS gain. This was proven a long time ago, but I haven't personally checked whether it's still so in WotLK.


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Old 12/07/08, 3:09 PM   #860
Thelastdeadmouse
Von Kaiser
 
Thelastdeadmouse's Avatar
 
Tauren Hunter
 
Hydraxis
I can't get on to check atm, but I'm about 98% sure that CR is still a increase in the pet window paper doll DPS. I remember checking when I speced a pet with the new talent trees, but there is a slim chance that I'm thinking of the beta, not necessarily live.

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Old 12/07/08, 3:45 PM   #861
dragoonvengance
Von Kaiser
 
Murloc Shaman
 
Mug'thol
No problem I was just entirely unaware of this fact.

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Old 12/07/08, 8:00 PM   #862
sihyunie
Piston Honda
 
Dwarf Hunter
 
Bonechewer
Originally Posted by dragoonvengance View Post
Shandara,

Over in the Simple Questions thread

Originally Posted by arison
It double dips from your 10%. Apparently pets get your melee AP not ranged AP (are there any items that give separate AP these days?). So, if before, your pet gained 22% of your AP (standard forumla):

Pet_AP = 0.22 * Your_Melee_AP

Now it is

Pet_AP = 1.1 * (0.22 * 1.1 * Your_Melee_AP)

Which ends up being 1.21 * 0.22 * Your_Melee_AP, or, a 21% bonus.
If this is the case could you modify the spreadsheet to calculate pet RAP off of melee rap? So we can correctly model Aspect of the Beast. After that with the wonderful power of the spreadsheet we can probably quite alot of the discussions of Beast vs DragonHawk.

Again thank you for the great work on the sheet.
So I believe Aspect of the Dragonhawk increases RAP only. When you turn the aspect on and off, pet ap changes (when I changed from Dragonhawk to Beast, my pet ap skyrockets and then comes back down a bit later when Dragonhawk ap is correctly removed). Also, 1 agility give 1 RAP and some crit, so some green item w/ only agility can be used for the testing.
Above math does seem very convincing tho. Is it possible that pet gains % of different AP depending on your aspect?

On a side note, is there any way to know how much 1 dps on a ranged weapon is worth compared to other stats?

Last edited by sihyunie : 12/07/08 at 11:48 PM.

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Old 12/08/08, 12:21 AM   #863
KraxisSingular
Banned
 
Blood Elf Hunter
 
Runetotem (EU)
Originally Posted by sihyunie View Post
So I believe Aspect of the Dragonhawk increases RAP only. When you turn the aspect on and off, pet ap changes (when I changed from Dragonhawk to Beast, my pet ap skyrockets and then comes back down a bit later when Dragonhawk ap is correctly removed). Also, 1 agility give 1 RAP and some crit, so some green item w/ only agility can be used for the testing.
Above math does seem very convincing tho. Is it possible that pet gains % of different AP depending on your aspect?

On a side note, is there any way to know how much 1 dps on a ranged weapon is worth compared to other stats?
Very much agreed on the convincing results there. It matches the boost we see in pets.

I suppose some Strength gear vs Agi gear could effectively confirm or disprove this (Strength still adds 1 melee AP).

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Old 12/08/08, 1:05 AM   #864
 Intermission
Spiral out, keep going
 
Intermission's Avatar
 
Undead Mage
 
Frostmourne
Is there an easy way to simultaneously manage gear/talents for both a Marks and a BM spec? Maybe I'm missing something, but it seems like a lot of processes to swap between the two. The easiest way looks like making two copies of the file and just managing each one.

What I'm trying to do:

I play as BM for 25 mans (2 nights a week), and Marks for 5-10 mans and regular day to day stuff. I would like to know what gear is best for each spec, in addition to fine tuning of talents/glyphs for each spec, different raid buffs, etc. So I'm not really comparing each spec to each other, but rather comparing individual things within each spec.

The profile setting on the gear tab does not seem to apply to the Shot Rotation, Talent Spec, Buffs, etc tabs. So to muck around with each spec, I'd need to redo my shot rotation, etc.

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Old 12/08/08, 2:49 AM   #865
Lactose
Don Lactose
 
Lactose's Avatar
 
Tauren Hunter
 
Talnivarr (EU)
The crit depression against boss level targets seems to be 4.80%, not the 0.60% we're currently using.
This is according to testing made by Rogues, and seems to match up with some other test results here, including ones made by Hunters.
It might be worth looking into, and possibly updating the spreadsheet to account for this.

Vulajin's post on the issue.

Look, Lactose, we'd rather you didn't eradicate the whole human race.
- Sam & Max

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Old 12/08/08, 4:31 AM   #866
Shandara
Great Tiger
 
Shandara's Avatar
 
Night Elf Hunter
 
Azjol-Nerub (EU)
Originally Posted by Intermission View Post
Is there an easy way to simultaneously manage gear/talents for both a Marks and a BM spec? Maybe I'm missing something, but it seems like a lot of processes to swap between the two. The easiest way looks like making two copies of the file and just managing each one.

What I'm trying to do:

I play as BM for 25 mans (2 nights a week), and Marks for 5-10 mans and regular day to day stuff. I would like to know what gear is best for each spec, in addition to fine tuning of talents/glyphs for each spec, different raid buffs, etc. So I'm not really comparing each spec to each other, but rather comparing individual things within each spec.

The profile setting on the gear tab does not seem to apply to the Shot Rotation, Talent Spec, Buffs, etc tabs. So to muck around with each spec, I'd need to redo my shot rotation, etc.
The saving of profiles saves the following things:
1) Gear
2) Settings tab
3) Shot Rotation
4) Pet Rotation and settings
5) Talent Spec

It does not save which Buff profile you selected or any stored talent specs/buff profiles.

Actually you do have a point and I should save the currently selected buffs with the player profile.


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Old 12/08/08, 4:58 AM   #867
Thelastdeadmouse
Von Kaiser
 
Thelastdeadmouse's Avatar
 
Tauren Hunter
 
Hydraxis
Perhaps a tab similar to the gear planning tab could be added but for enchants and gems, where the options available will have their dps shown and ranked. With all the new hit rating enchants I find myself switching hit enchants and gems around with crit/AP/Agi enchants and gems nearly every time I change my gear trying to keep close to the hit cap. It would have the top 4 or 5 enchants for each slot (I really doubt more than that would be necessary) and then a chart for each color gems with check boxes for gem quality.

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Old 12/08/08, 8:04 AM   #868
 Intermission
Spiral out, keep going
 
Intermission's Avatar
 
Undead Mage
 
Frostmourne
Originally Posted by Shandara View Post
The saving of profiles saves the following things:
1) Gear
2) Settings tab
3) Shot Rotation
4) Pet Rotation and settings
5) Talent Spec

It does not save which Buff profile you selected or any stored talent specs/buff profiles.

Actually you do have a point and I should save the currently selected buffs with the player profile.
Oh so it saves the current selected stuff and adds it to the profile list info panel thing. I see.

I was sorta hoping that flipping the profile switch from one to another would basically be like swapping between two separate workbooks. EG, when you change from the BM profile to the Marks profile, the talents change themselves, shot rotation changes itself, etc.

As I said though, it's probably a lot easier just to use two copies. I just wanted to make sure I wasnt missing a feature out of ignorance.

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Old 12/08/08, 9:25 AM   #869
Xoran
Von Kaiser
 
Night Elf Hunter
 
Proudmoore (EU)
Manaregen:

I'm a long-time user of the spreadsheet (many thanks to Shandara for doing so much work on this recently) and by currently evaluating my spec, I noticed that speccing out of Invigoration results in a dps loss, but reading these forum, most people claim that you don't need it for 25-mans. So yesterday was my first time at Patchwerk and I finished the fight with almost full mana. Looking at the WWS, it shows Judgment of Wisdom alone restoring 24k mana over the 248s the fight took. This is something like 5 times the amount asumed in the spreadsheet, thus overvalueing talentpoints spend in Invigoration.

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Old 12/08/08, 2:26 PM   #870
Vaxum
Von Kaiser
 
Human Death Knight
 
Spirestone
Couple bug reports/suggestions:
  • Grotesque Handgrips are missing a yellow socket. Oddly enough, the correct socket bonus is there - just not the socket itself.
  • Darkmoon Card - Greatness isn't importing from the Armory. Character-sheet.xml has has the right ItemID (44253) so this looks like a spreadsheet bug.
  • Default Zoom Level got reset to Custom: 115% - please set back to 100% for those of us on smaller monitors.
  • Please save Hand Adjust values with the profile. Hand adjust is useful for correcting stat bugs in gear/sockets, but when swapping gearsets it is painful & easy to forget to undo/redo adjusts.

Last edited by Vaxum : 12/08/08 at 2:40 PM. Reason: Incorrect bug report re: Draenei aura

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