I know this. I have gone back and customized to the buffs/debuffs normally in our raid and it's still way higher than my DPS is. I guess I just don't understand how people with gear similar to mine are pulling over 1k more DPS than I am. And don't tell me to L2P because I know what I'm doing "rotation/priority system" wise. I just can't understand the huge DPS difference and am asking for suggestions on why the gap is so large.

I need to compare projected shot average damage with what I see in practice fully raid buffed, but I am beginning to believe the spreadsheet falls short for SV (and perhaps MM) estimations because of how it handles IAotH. Basically the haste is averaged out, resulting in constantly being at the haste soft cap (i.e., when steady shot is 1.5s or less). This isn't how it works in practice and can cause a good bit of variation.

Hopefully I will have the chance to verify its values for average damage per shot, ideally completely unbuffed against a test dummy, then checking in the real world. If the expected damage of each shot matches, then it would confirm the rotation estimations are perhaps off. If any particular shot shows a divergence between expected and actual damage, the problem is somewhere else.

For reliable testing, though, you have to unequip proc'ing trinkets etc so values don't get averaged in the spreadsheet and so your experiments don't have variation due to that. And, of course, always test against a dummy no one else is using (lest you pick up their debuffs).

Or you could just turn off averaging in the spreadsheet (it is one of the options)

Yes, but that doesn't really give a more accurate number, either. Proc haste is a very important part of SV and MM rotations if you are under the haste cap. The best way to test the core values coming from the spreadsheet is to eliminate as much randomness as possible and get a solid number of samples.

It would be nice if an additional box were made on the shot rotation and rotation test pages so we could configure LnL behavior, and another box below it that shows where our casts would be in terms of cooldown at the first hypothetical LnL proc. Also consider the fact that you need to put 1 shot after each explosive in the LnL rotation, and one after the second explosive shot before it triggers the normal CD again (perfect opportunity to refresh Serp if it has 3-seconds left). Explosive shot's last tick will fire just before the new explosive shot is applied if you put one shot between each (the shot travel time + latency opens just enough of a gap to get the last tick before the new one is applied.

The current A.I. in the rotation test tab shows that DPS calcs are being made based on waiting until all 3 ticks of ES ( initial + 1 per sec x 2 sec = 3) have fired before casting another. In-game mechanics make it possible to take advantage of all 3 ticks without waiting till the debuff is done before firing another shot. In the spreadsheet, the remaining ticks are overwritten if you set the logic to calculate based on letting only the first post-hit tick to fire before hitting ES again. (this is done by setting "Explosive Shot ticks" to 2).

In the LnL rotation I use in-game, with 160ms latency would go: 0.00 ES is cast, ~0.33 ES hits (tick 1), ~1.33 ES hits (tick 2), ~1.66 MS is cast, ~2.33 ES hits (tick 3), ~2.49 MS hits, 3.16 ES is cast.
In other words, ES > MS > ES allows 3 ticks because the combined GCD of MS and ES is 3-seconds. Travel time opens up the gap to cast without wasting charges, so a rotation like ES > MS > ES > SS > ES is viable (assuming you include the first cooldown-consuming ES).

Unfortunately the "Rotation Test" page A.I. is putting two shots between some explosive shots in LnL procs, so it takes longer to put in the final ES. Thus, some of the DPS from ES in the LnL rotation isn't being optimized.

Adding a tool that would allow hunters to set priority shots for a ES:A:ES:B (where shot A has priority over shot B) would be helpful. We could determine what to use so that when LnL initially procs, we're ready to use a priority-optimized LnL rotation immediately. This would also give hunters who were thinking of making a LnL rotation macro some visual feedback on how they should change their shot rotation outside LnL procs to keep debuffs active.

It also raises the potential for theorycrafting on how to keep high-damage shots like MS and KS available when the internal cooldown on LnL is finished so hunters can optimize burst during those crucial standing-still portions of boss fights. This topic alone is enough to get an addon writer started on a new project ( /wink ).

There were a lot of changes in the most recent patch, and I hope you find the time to sort through em all for v83

How is the Gear Planner dealing with possible enchantments on swapped items? I assume that it is just using the current item's enchantment for the possible swapped item, but how can that work for comparing s 2h weapon vs. 2 1-handers (which have much different enchantments available to them)? I am guessing that, for this reason, the numbers comparing the dps of a 2-hander with that of 2 proposed 1-handers (or vice-versa) may not be very accurate?

Maybe there should be a default 1-hander and 2-hander enchantment option (much like the default gems for gem slots)?

Not sure if it's been mentioned (or at least I haven't seen it), but when you are looking at the gear planner the Nessingwary 4000 has a value of 0 or reacts as if it has a value of 0 and thereby doesn't autorank itself where it fits in the "wish list".

Deadly Gladiator's Band of Victory is mislabeled as Deadly Gladiator's Band of Triumph.

Press the "Ranged Weapons" button at the top of that sheet to correctly update their ranking. This was put in as a separate calculation as it takes a long time to execute.

Shandara: It might be a good idea to mention this explicitly right near the Ranged Weapon box, as to avoid this question pop up every second page.

I did that and it went through its little number crunching and still puts a value of 0 and a location of 0 in the yellow box at the bottom.

BTW, this is version 81f

What gear selection options have you chosen? I get that behaviour when I have gear equipt that isn't available in the raid combinations I've selected, e.g. TBC gear without that box checked, 25man gear when I only have 10man selected.

I've decided to try using the spreadsheet again.

I've loaded my gear from the armory, my talents, my glyphs, and change my pet spec.
I've added my gathering prof mining buff.
I've removed all raid buffs, set it to none.
However, I saw a descrepancy of 2% crit and do not understand why. I'm basing this from what I'm seeing in the armoury.
I notice that my agi, stam, crit rating, haste rating on the spreadsheet matches the armoury.
However, there is an ap difference which i thought to be caused by aspect of the hawk. So i went to Settings and set the custom value to 0. (I'm unsure if there's a SAVE SETTING button that I can use). I don't see any change in my ap.

Anyway, I would like a few suggestions of what may have cause that crit % difference.

I'm not being anal about it, but i thought I can only make accurate judgments in using the spreadsheet when everything falls into place.

Thanks for any help.

I found my issue. I had de-selected profession required (which I believe is a really poor named item since some of the items are BOE and don't require the profession to use). I had also, in the past, hit that ranged weapon button, but I guess I had never selected both while having the N4000 equip'd to allow it to be ranked properly.

After both were toggled, it was ranked in the proper area I believe it should be.


Thank you

A few things:

1. The spreadsheet is setup by default to assume all the trinket/talent averages that you would get during a fight. If you want to ignore them to get a 'tooltip' or 'character sheet' value, then under settings tab set 'Disable Averaging' to 'Yes'
2. If you want to turn off Aspects like Dragonhawk, do it under the Shot Rotation tab
3. Master Tactician and Crit Depression fields don't turn off/get disabled when disabling average, which is a spreadsheet bug which leads to an extra ~1% crit.

I imported your gear and spec, turned off Aspect of Hawk/Dragonhawk, disabled averages, then if you consider a fixed spreadsheet where Master Tacticition and Crit depression is zero, then you get pretty close to your armoury values.

Note: Not sure if Shandara has updated all the base stats for races yet, so you may want to compare what the spreadsheet thinks and your character pane thinks.

Apologies if I'm missing something obvious, but what is the "Yes" option for replenishment doing? I'm seeing some strange behaviour with it, viz. at 100% or 50% uptime setting it to "No" while having 2/3 EW and 1/5 in Hunting party raises my dps over a hundred DPS higher than if I have it set to "Yes" with 0 points in HP an 3/3 EW.

Setting it to "yes" and then changing the Uptime% also has counterintuitive results (0% uptime drops dps, but putting 1 point into HP has no effect on dps).

This is in Viper to OOM mode, for a 4 minute fight - I was trying to work out whether full EW is worth it in a raid without any replenishment other than my 1/5 HP.

This seems vaguely familiar, so did search the past 8 pages or so for "replenishment", but I can't seem to find anything :S

If you select 'Yes' to Replenishment, then it takes that uptime value and ignores any points you have in Hunting Party.
I think Hunting Party and Replenishment buff should work in tandem with each other, not overwrite.

I don't think that the two buffs stack, so the spreadsheet is preferring Replenishment to Hunting Party as it's easier to keep up.

It says the sheet is protected, and I have to 'unprotect' it, but it needs a password. What is the password?

You can change all the fields that need to be changed in order to make the spreadsheet work.
Some fields are protected to ensure that spreadsheet if working as intended.

But I can't even "Load Gear from Armory", nor import or export my character, nothing is working

Do you have macros enabled?

It's not two buffs, it's the same buff. Or more accurately perhaps: Hunting Party is not a buff, it is a talent that grants the Replenishment buff on crits. Replenishment can be given by 3 different classes and the talents are all called different things, so I don't blame people for being confused about this (I know I was at first).