WotLK DPS spreadsheet - Page 62

Xanathorn · 02/04/09, 11:32 AM

Originally Posted by Lactose

I doubt it was modeled correctly.
[Mirror of Truth] vs [Anvil of Titans].
Both have the same proc, so we can ignore it for easier comparing the items. [Mirror of Truth] has a DPS stat (Critical Strike Rating) while [Anvil of Titans] has a defensive/PvP stat (Resilience Rating).
Given the same proc rate and cooldown on the trinkets, there is no way for 84 Resilience Rating to to yield a higher DPS in the spreadsheet than 84 Critical Strike Rating.

Note that [Mirror of Truth] has a chance on crit and [Anvil of Titans] a chance on hit, which might have something to do with it.

Edit: Gah, Ufthak beat me to it.

jmlsteele · 02/04/09, 12:12 PM

Heres the thing both of you are failing to take into account. Yes one is on crit and one is on hit, but both have an internal CD of roughly 45s (still needs more proving, but seems to be that much) and a proc chance of 10% (also needs more proving).

That means in order for the Mirror to be significantly less useful you would have to not crit for something like 90 seconds (or more). Assuming 1 shot every 2 seconds (45 shots) you'd have to have < 2% crit rate. That just isn't possible with sane gear levels.

Yes, if you have 0 agility and 0 crit rating then the Anvil will be better, but that's not going to happen, so he likely modeled it wrong.

Lactose · 02/04/09, 12:53 PM

Seems I misread slightly in my haste. I remember doing some math on it a while back and coming to the conclusion it wasn't worth it at all.

Some quick napkin math with 1 shot per second, 10% chance to proc follows. Keep in mind that this is simplified a bit:
Anvil:
Proc frequency --> TimeToProc + InternalCooldown --> 10 + 45 = 55
Average RAP gain --> Uptime*RAPGain --> (10/55)*1000 = 182 RAP

Mirror, 30% crit rate:
Proc frequency --> TimeToProc + InternalCooldown --> 30 + 45 = 75
Average RAP gain --> Uptime*RAPGain --> (10/75)*1000 = 133 RAP

At this crit rate, the Anvil has 49 more RAP, but 84 less Crit Rating.
As crit rate increases to more realistic values (including buffs and what not), the Anvil loses out more and more.

Like jmlsteele, I can't really see any real situation where the Anvil would be worth using over Mirror for pure PvE DPS.

Shandara · 02/04/09, 1:04 PM

Double-checking the calculations for the Anvil and the Mirror I have not found any glaring bugs.

The Anvil's slightly higher uptime (faster proc after the ICD is over) gives it a slightly higher +AP effect overall, but the loss of 85 crit rating puts it squarely below the Mirror at a 60 dps loss.

It is currently spelled incorrectly in the sheet (which will be fixed next release) but if you use the custom trinket option be sure to input the stats of the Anvil correctly.

Special Type:		On Hit	
Duration:		10	
Cooldown:		45	
Proc Chance		10%	
Min Damage		0	
Max Damage		0	
Can Crit?		No	

And as the effect +1000 AP

EDIT:
In case the 'can crit?' option confuses someone, it's an option in the version v83d:

- Gronnstalker Boots added again
- Elixir of Accuracy added
- Added setting to have Shot Rotation Test automatically redone if you make changes to the shot priority queue (default=No)
- Custom Trinkets that deal damage now have an option to factor in your crit chance for extra damage.
- Corrected Anvil of Titans spelling

Thelastdeadmouse · 02/04/09, 1:18 PM

Another request from the silly tanking hunter, but could we get Devo Aura added to the hunter buffs, and Devo Aura, Fort, and Commanding Shout added to the pet buffs available?

Glodd · 02/04/09, 2:08 PM

Originally Posted by Vitaro

It is my experience that the spreadsheet does not check whether you properly specced into Aimed Shot the moment you put it into your rotation.

Edit: As a techy; saying you do not have Access to Excel is funny. Also, you must have missed the BIG FAT BOLD WARNING in the OP not to ask for an OO version.

I'm sorry, I should have been more clear. I am not asking the OP to make a version for OO. I am asking if someone else has adapted the sheet to OO. And why is it funny that I cant get Excel? I don't want to break the law, and I would have to to get it. Or were you making a joke about the relational database in Office?

Avellyr · 02/04/09, 3:59 PM

I posted this on the hunter boards, but I'm sure it will get eaten, so I thought I'd post it here too. This is the band-aid that I use to get the spreadsheet to work in open office. I still can't get the sorting macros to work properly, but what I do is take the stat weights and plug them into Loot Rank for WotLK to compile a BIS list. Here's what you need to do to make that work.

DISCLAIMER: This has only been tested with version 38d of the spreadsheet and OO 3.0

1) First, make sure that your OO is set to allow macros. Go to Tools > Options > Security > Macro Security. Set this to low or medium.

2) Now you need to monkey with the macros to get them to support OO basic. Go to Tools > Macros > Organize Macros > Openoffice.org basic. In this window select Hunter_DPS > Standard > Module1, then hit "Edit".

3) In the code window that should be up now, first go to Edit > Find/Replace, and enter "Rem" in the find field, nothing in the "replace with" field, and hit "replace all". This makes all the macro code active.

Now go to sheet 36 and put the "rem" back in the method name that now reads "Private Sub IncentTest_Click". It should be "Private Sub IncrementTest_Click".

4) Now you need to go through every module (the tabs at the bottom) and delete the top two lines as well as the bottom line. The top two should be "Attributes VBA...." and "Sub..." the bottom line should be "End Sub". Then, at the top of each tab, add the line

Option VBASupport 1

5) Go the the "Overview" sheet and unprotect it (Tools > Protect Document > Sheet)

6) Pull up the form controls toolbar (View > Toolbars > Form Controls)

7) Turn on design mode by clicking the button in the upper right-hand corner (a pencil and a ruler)

8) Click on the "CalcAttributes" button in the spreadsheet to select it

9) Right click the button and select "Control" from the dropdown menu

10) In this window, in the "Events" tab, click the ellipsis button next to the field that reads "Mouse Button Pressed"

11) Click "Macro" in the next window

12) The macro you want is under "Hunter_DPS > Standard > Sheet36 > Increment_Test_Click. Select this and click "OK". You can now close the other windows you opened

13) Click the pencil/ruler button in the upper right-hand corner of the Form Controls toolbar to turn design mode off. You may also close the toolbar.

14) Click the button, watch the spreadsheet do its magic, and take the stat weights to lootrank.com!

You can also get most of the other macros to work now that you've fixed the formatting on them, the names are pretty straightforward and it's easy to guess which ones go with which buttons, just use the same procedure outlined in steps 6-13. As I mentioned before, the sorting macros don't sort properly, and the import-export functions cause errors. If you're getting errors in the import-export functions, just comment out (a single apostrophe before the line) or delete the entire function so that the other macros in that module will run. If anyone knows of a simpler way to do steps 3 and 4 or if you think you can get the other functions working, I'd love to hear it.

Pootch · 02/04/09, 6:29 PM

"We made a hotfix recently to lower the coefficient of Explosive Shot. Sorry we didn't get a chance to announce the change ahead of time. We don't typically do patch notes for hotfixes so we don't have a system in place to always broadcast these before they happen.

We are in the process of making some changes to get damage done more in parity (in PvP and PvE). If there are other classes far ahead of you on the damage meters, chances are good they will see some nerfs to their damage soon too.

Would be nice to see a new spreadsheet version for testing.

alienangel · 02/04/09, 6:35 PM

Originally Posted by Pootch

Would be nice to see a new spreadsheet version for testing.

Someone needs to figure out what the new coefficient is first

jmlsteele · 02/04/09, 6:36 PM

Originally Posted by Glodd

I'm sorry, I should have been more clear. I am not asking the OP to make a version for OO. I am asking if someone else has adapted the sheet to OO. And why is it funny that I cant get Excel? I don't want to break the law, and I would have to to get it. Or were you making a joke about the relational database in Office?

I'm working on converting it to OOo right now. Base functionality works "out of the box" with the excel version, it's just all of the good features like profiles, loading gear automagically, the gear planner, and any of the other buttons that doesnt work (basically everything that makes this an amazing spreadsheet instead of just an awesome one)

And I think the joke was indeed poking fun at the fact that Access is also a db app in MS Office, not that you aren't pirating it.

Tzentch · 02/04/09, 7:34 PM

small bug.

The newly added Elixir of Accuracy does not get totaled when selected.
In cell: M36 on the Buffs sheet.

Runningelk · 02/04/09, 7:53 PM

Originally Posted by alienangel

Someone needs to figure out what the new coefficient is first

From the thread, post #166 ... World of Warcraft - English (NA) Forums -> HUNTERS: why the stealth nerf?

From the testing I've done the coefficient seems to have been changed to [RAP * 0.14 + 428]-[RAP * 0.14 + 516] from [RAP * 0.16 + 428]-[RAP * 0.16 + 516] that it was before.

Iru · 02/04/09, 8:09 PM

Two small bugs that started after version 82 and are still present:
It's [Staff of the Plaguehound] not Staff of the Plaguehand, and the stats associated with the later are somehow messed up. They produce #N/A on selection

EDIT: the item is correct in the weapon list on the melee sheet, it's just wrong in the selection list for the main hand (AO78 on the Melee tab).

Onouris · 02/05/09, 1:45 AM

I'm getting massive problems importing from file in the latest two versions of the spreadsheet. Even downloaded them multiple times to make sure that wasn't the problem.

It doesn't import gear, which I suppose I can live with, but maybe that, maybe something else, is messing up importing of other things. For example, my Buff Profiles are apparently now Yes, Improved 4/4 and Rank 5, whereas my Talent specs are now No, blank, No, None and No. Importing one of the talent specs fills every slot with #N/A.

One of the minor glyphs isn't imported, none of my custom settings are imported (don't know if it does that normally), and shot priority (again don't know if it does that anyway).

Hopefully that's enough to spot a pattern and figure out what's going on there.

Iru · 02/05/09, 2:25 AM

The structure of the import/export file changed between v82 & v83 and the v83 sheet does a poor version of recovering data from a v82 file. I recommend reloading from the armoury and rebuilding shot rotations, talent & buff specs by hand. It's less painful.

Sirael · 02/05/09, 9:08 AM

Yesterday Ghostcrawler posted that they made a hotfix and lowered the coefficient of Explosive Shot.
Is this change already in the spreadsheet?

Thelastdeadmouse · 02/05/09, 11:08 AM

Originally Posted by Sirael

Yesterday Ghostcrawler posted that they made a hotfix and lowered the coefficient of Explosive Shot.
Is this change already in the spreadsheet?

Scroll up four posts.

Tolmandary · 02/05/09, 11:34 AM

Would you be able to include Darkmoon Card: Death if possible in a future build please. In most raids this seems to account for over 1% of my total DPS from procs plus of course the extra 85 crit rating is useful.

Fierra · 02/05/09, 11:47 AM

Originally Posted by Thelastdeadmouse

Scroll up four posts.

That post does not say it is in the spreadsheet; it is merely quoting a WoW forum stating the new coefficient. His question is entirely valid, and I would like to know as well.

alienangel · 02/05/09, 1:12 PM

Originally Posted by Fierra

That post does not say it is in the spreadsheet; it is merely quoting a WoW forum stating the new coefficient. His question is entirely valid, and I would like to know as well.

If it is in the spreadsheet, there is a post somewhere in the past page or two of this thread saying "new version of spreadsheet, changes are: ... [changed Explosive Shot coefficient]... ". This will also appear in the changelog in the first post of the thread. So you can answer your question yourself in all of 20 seconds.

Innersakura · 02/05/09, 2:17 PM

I posted this a few pages back. In the spreadsheet for the "Go for the throat" calculation (Pet Calculations!F33), shouldn't it use the "CompositeShotCritRate" value instead of the "Calculations!B41" which is the base crit value?

GftT procs off any shot correct? not just Auto Shots.

Using "Calculations!B41" doesn't account for the extra crit from "Survival Instincts", "Imp Barrage", "T.N.T", "Sniper Training", "Rift Stalkers 4-piece bonus", or "Glyph of Trueshot Aura". "CompositeShotCritRate" does.

Esoth · 02/05/09, 4:33 PM

I really think partial resists should be calculated for all abilities that are subject to it. Currently only explosive shot is subject to partials in the sheet; it should also apply to chimera, chimera - serpent, serpent sting, wild quiver, and arcane shot. I've been looking around for a good source to point to that shows ongoing or updated work on the assumed damage reduction due to partial resists, but I simply can't find it. I've asked some well known people from these forums directly and here assumptions that it is either 5% or 2% per level (6% for bosses) or somewhere around there. Perhaps it could be a configurable setting?

Also, your max value for explosive shot (496) does not match what wowhead has (516): Explosive Shot - Spell - World of Warcraft I'm assuming this was taken from an earlier version of the shot; if there's been evidence that suggests wowhead is wrong I apologize.

ahhzz · 02/05/09, 9:14 PM

Originally Posted by Shandara

Update:

- Fixed Arcanum of Rapidity bug
- Fixed TSARankSet reference
- Added Darkmoon Card:Crusade back in
- Added custom trinket slot, most on-use trinket and on-hit/crit procs can be modeled

Thanks VERY much. I know it's not easy listening to all of us complaining here, and picking at your work. We really do appreciate it , even if we don't say it much

thehittmann1981 · 02/05/09, 9:39 PM

Originally Posted by thehittmann1981

There seems to be a bug with latency in the Spreadsheet. Here are my current buffed dps outcomes when changing latency.

0.1 - 6025.12dps
0.2 - 5857.80dps
0.3 - 5696.52dps
0.4 - 5531.74dps
0.5 - 5779.99dps (back up again)

Can anybody else confirm or deny this please? A simple 2 min test.

Esoth · 02/05/09, 10:18 PM

Originally Posted by thehittmann1981

Can anybody else confirm or deny this please? A simple 2 min test.

It's doing roughly the same for me. An initial guess it's that it's not a bug, per se, but a re-optimization of your shot cycle. For instance, if you're survival, without latency you'd be doing explosive + 3 specials. This probably has you doing explosive + 2 specials, but it's much tighter than your explosive + 3 specials with high latency. Just a guess.