WotLK DPS spreadsheet - Page 64

Mr Tazza · 12/14/08, 6:13 PM

Originally Posted by Mr Tazza

Hello, I wanted to ask if Grim Toll is implemented correctly in the spreadsheet, as it is waaay below other trinkets, even below TBC ones!

I guess it might not be at the same level of Fury of the Five Flights/Bandit's Insignia/Greatness Card, but its indeed worth more.

Sorry for quoting myself, but could you answer this please?

Thanks in advance!

Cranch · 12/14/08, 6:39 PM

Originally Posted by Mr Tazza

Sorry for quoting myself, but could you answer this please?

Thanks in advance!

Per the calculations page, Grim Toll averages out to around 100 ArP. You can put in to the hand-adjust fields on the Gear page the same values as that trinket (83 hit, 100 ArP) and get the same results as putting the actual trinket in. So there's nothing broken with the trinket implementation.

It is true that the gear planner undervalues Grim Toll by about 21 dps for some reason but the gear planner is just a guide -- you should always insert your gear into the Gear page for the best estimation of actual dps.

Whitemane · 12/14/08, 6:53 PM

Originally Posted by Cranch

It is true that the gear planner undervalues Grim Toll by about 21 dps for some reason but the gear planner is just a guide -- you should always insert your gear into the Gear page for the best estimation of actual dps.

To me that smells more like bad implementation than actual design logic. I'm sure Shandara will fix it?

TrevvyTrev · 12/14/08, 11:13 PM

Originally Posted by Zerlu

EDIT: I can confirm that the DoT will be applied whether or not Faerie Fire is up, however I'm unsure as to whether or not the Ignore Armor function is being applied in that situation. Is there a way I might be able to test this?

You and a druid can test it on a beast mob. You an use Beast Lore to see the exact amount of armor a beast NPC has, so if the two stack then you should notice that value go down even further from when the first is applied.

flimflam · 12/15/08, 3:32 AM

I've found a weird thing with v80. I haven't touched any of the default settings that play around with AotH/DH settings.

On the Calculations panel under Ranged Attack Power:

Aspect of the Hawk: 242.94
Aspect Mastery: 59.02

Shouldn't that be 300 and 90? The reason I ask is because my ingame tooltip ap is 3982 but in the spreadsheet adding those same values up i get 3894.

Edit; This is with buffs "cleared". It looks when I load 80 Raid Buffs its correct with 300 and 90.

Hunterlin · 12/15/08, 4:11 AM

Originally Posted by Zerlu

Patch 3.0.2 - On Debuffs, Buffs, and Raid Stacking

I'm fairly sure it does stack, but I don't have a druid near by to test with. On a side note, I have its spore cloud set to auto cast, but it never does, not even with full focus. Has anyone else experienced similar issues?

EDIT: I can confirm that the DoT will be applied whether or not Faerie Fire is up, however I'm unsure as to whether or not the Ignore Armor function is being applied in that situation. Is there a way I might be able to test this?

I have tested this with druid and spore cloud's armor debuff does not stack with FF.

Iroared · 12/15/08, 6:44 AM

The gear comparison thing still isnt working properly. E.g. envoy of mortality is shown as one of the lowest DPS weapons and gives 0 dps increase.
And with other items, same thing. Black ice is rated lower than runeblade of demonstrable power, but when I switch between the two in the gear tab (even without the gem) it shows dps increase for black ice.

Shandara · 12/15/08, 7:25 AM

Originally Posted by Iroared

The gear comparison thing still isnt working properly. E.g. envoy of mortality is shown as one of the lowest DPS weapons and gives 0 dps increase.
And with other items, same thing. Black ice is rated lower than runeblade of demonstrable power, but when I switch between the two in the gear tab (even without the gem) it shows dps increase for black ice.

1) Are the filters set correctly to show the loot involved?
2) Have you run the 'Calculate Attributes' button?
3) Have you run the 'Ranged Weapons' button?
4) Have you run the 'Sort' button?

If you have done all 4 in this order and it's still showing Envoy as the lowest weapon then you might have found a bug. The same for Black Ice.

Selmarix · 12/15/08, 11:07 AM

I made a crude hack to the spreadsheet to evaluate the dps of BM and MM hunters in spreadsheet version 80 at different points in item progression. The assumption is that the item stats increase linearly with item level.
The evaluation is at full raid buffs with a cat as pet.

This is the BM hunter (total dps blue, pet dps red):

The MM hunter (total dps blue, pet dps red):

The x axis in both cases is the percent of item stats from gear below (negative) or above (positive) a 10 man geared hunter.
Only gun/quiver/ammo is not changed (as that was not quite that easy to hack in for the gun).

Dch48 · 12/15/08, 2:13 PM

Originally Posted by Iroared

The gear comparison thing still isnt working properly. E.g. envoy of mortality is shown as one of the lowest DPS weapons and gives 0 dps increase.
And with other items, same thing. Black ice is rated lower than runeblade of demonstrable power, but when I switch between the two in the gear tab (even without the gem) it shows dps increase for black ice.

In mine the Envoy of Mortality shows as the top weapon by far in the gear planner with a delta of 100.49. I'm not seeing any bug here on that item but Black Ice rates below the Runeblade of Demonstrable Power if you don't need the hit rating on it and we know haste doesn't do much any more. If you do need the hit on Black Ice, then it jumps up to a higher position. Make sure that the assume 100% hit option on the gear planner is set to no.

So much of the budget on Black Ice is spent in hit and haste that the other stats are not all that great.

Dch48 · 12/15/08, 2:47 PM

There is a bug in the talents page. If you put one point in longevity, dps goes up as it should. If you put in a second point, dps drops. Adding the third point produces an increase. Something is definitely wrong with that second point.

Xoran · 12/15/08, 3:23 PM

No, it is not, if you are using a cat, as has been pointed out numerous times here.

Keltan · 12/15/08, 4:19 PM

In regards to why Longevity 3/3 > Longevity 1/3 > Longevity 2/3 when using a cat.

Originally Posted by Shandara

The calculation in the sheet as it is now is correct, it's just a bit kludgy. The results won't change.

It comes from the fact that Rake ticks 3 times. Every 3 seconds for 9 seconds. Now if you have 2/3 or 3/3 Longevity (i.e. 8 or 7 sec cooldown) you'll cut off the last part of the Rake DoT.

In case of the 2/3 and coupled with pet GCD you waste nearly a whole tick (at a 1.25 sec pet GCD Rake will fire in ideal situations every 8.75 seconds). You'd have gotten the 3rd tick at 9 seconds so you waste 2.75 seconds of time. This is what leads to the dps LOSS.

In case of 3/3 Longevity it's the same, but with a 7 sec cooldown you waste less time. But, at the same time you get an added benefit from the reduced CD on Bestial Wrath/Rapid Fire, because of how the cooldowns line up. This leads to the substantial DPS boost.

This is all in theory and in the sheet of course. Testing will have to determine whether or not it's close enough to the truth.

Hunterlin · 12/16/08, 2:58 AM

There are some bug in gear planer, 3 of top ranged weapons (Envoy of Mortality, Arrowsong and Final Voyage) have 0 dps value.
Top weapon shown for me is Nerubian Conqueror. If I chose those weapon in gear list dps go up as it should.
I have no clue what causes them have 0 value in gear planer (and so they are in bottom in gear combobox).

Edit: I did as in instructions above and situation did become worse, 3 savage weapons did had 0 value too after ranged weapons calculation.
All filters are on(did uncheck and check them again).

Iru · 12/16/08, 3:09 AM

Try using the directions in the post six above yours