WotLK DPS spreadsheet - Page 69

Kom · 02/26/09, 9:22 AM

Couple things:
Wild Hunt - atm its broken on PTR, doesn't do anything. But I'd imagine its 40% more than the current amount, not the current amount plus an additional 40%. As you can see by the default settings on the latest version it's giving 800 dps per pet talent point.

EDIT: seems wild hunt not working for me on PTR was a display bug. ignore this point I guess, nerf inc tho!

LnL - Late here, going to have trouble explaining this, but by my calculations the most accurate figure you can give shots replaced for LnL is 1.5 (no interleaving). Currently the spreadsheet only offers 1/2/3. I'll try do a diagram...

First row is without LnL procs, second is with.
X = explosive shot
- = filler

X---X---X---X---X---X---X---X---X---X---X
XXX---X---X---X---X---X---X---X---X---XXX

or more simply (2consecutive procs)

X---X---X
XXX---XXX

So your gaining 3 explosive shots from 2 procs. So 1.5 shots replaced every proc. Of course this is neglecting the fact the player will likely wait another 0.1 seconds before firing to ensure the final tick goes off... but thats probably beyond whats necessary.

Shandara · 02/26/09, 1:09 PM

Update:

- Fixed prismatic sockets dropdown menus
- Furious Howl now stacks with other AP buffs
- Furious Howl now 40 sec cooldown and (level*2-2)*2 AP bonus (i.e. double from before)
- Thunderstomp now a Tenacity pet talent, Pummel new Gorilla family skill
- Shark Attack now 3/6%
- Some profile fixes - don't count on previous ones loading correctly for the time being, sorry

Furious currently bugged on the PTR in that it only affects the pet, but I'm pretty sure that at least will get fixed. Level 80 Wolf gives +316 AP as per the formula above.

With all the changes going on profiles are a bit iffy. You can try importing and loading your old profile but don't count on it working correctly while I'm doing all these PTR releases.

Mikari · 02/26/09, 1:13 PM

Is it possible for you to make the spreadsheet use the system internet settings for connecting? I use a proxy server and the spreadsheet tries to connect directly so I can't use the armory feature, having to add my gear manually each time there's a change that breaks compatibility with older save files is getting quite time consuming.

Shandara · 02/26/09, 1:32 PM

Originally Posted by Mikari

Is it possible for you to make the spreadsheet use the system internet settings for connecting? I use a proxy server and the spreadsheet tries to connect directly so I can't use the armory feature, having to add my gear manually each time there's a change that breaks compatibility with older save files is getting quite time consuming.

I'll see what I can do, I'm not sure how Excel handles it actually. If anyone knows, PM me please. In the meantime I'll read up on it.

EDIT:
After some searching I turned up the following article:
VBA: WinHttpRequest with Login and Password - Misc Bloglines

One of the comments mentions that you need to use a Windows provided utility to set the proxy for all programs that use the standard windows http-request API, which Excel should use as far as I know.

From the article:

I found what I was looking for: you can use the Windows ‘Proxy Configuration tool’ (C:\windows\system32\proxycfg.exe) to set the proxy information for WinHttpRequest (I found a posting on a talkaboutsoftware.com forum)!

Using the command “proxycfg.exe -u” will set the current user’s Internet Explorer proxy settings for use by any application that uses WinHttpRequest! Woo hoo!

I tried this already and it works like a charm with Excel 2000 on Windows XP!

I have not (yet) found any way to set proxy settings from within Excel.

Komarm · 02/26/09, 2:17 PM

Originally Posted by Shandara

I'll see what I can do, I'm not sure how Excel handles it actually. If anyone knows, PM me please. In the meantime I'll read up on it.

EDIT:
After some searching I turned up the following article:
VBA: WinHttpRequest with Login and Password - Misc Bloglines

One of the comments mentions that you need to use a Windows provided utility to set the proxy for all programs that use the standard windows http-request API, which Excel should use as far as I know.

From the article:

I have not (yet) found any way to set proxy settings from within Excel.

Just tried that on my work PC, the proxy has been my bane with the spreadsheet for some time forcing me to manually add in gear and talents, and it work perfectly. I was able load everything from the armory, it used to error out and go to an Excel debug screen. Thank you for the great work on the spreadsheet.

** edit, ignore DIV/0 error report, working fine now***

Danzou · 02/26/09, 3:59 PM

I have a question. On the spreadsheet there is something fuzzy with the cast of rapid fire. As it is now on the ptr it does not procc GCD but it is still afflicted by it.

Here on the Screenshot you can see Start cast 1.6, Cast end 1.7. But then you see Start cast on Serpent Sting on 3.2.

As Rapid fire does not procc GCD should not the Serpent sting start cast on 1.7?

Hope someone can help me with this one.

Eraist · 02/26/09, 4:27 PM

Originally Posted by Gaj

I'm doing something seriously wrong then. With close to the BiS surv gear, last night I only hit 4313 on Patch (2.37min kill). This isn't even close to what I can model on the Spreadsheet. Not trap dancing and manually weaving shots.

I'm kinda in the same boat. I think I'm doing everything right. Right shot rotation, new macros, keeping up the stings, and ES. KC in macro to keep it up. Marking target, pet commands on auto. 8% hit capped, all AGI gems and enchants. 6/14/51 spec.

My DPS is just slightly better than last week on Patchwerk, 4666 this week, but no where near what I'm seeing in WWS for other people with the same or equal gear. 5700-6100 DPS is what I'm seeing, just not sure how they are getting those numbers without Trap dancing.

Methical · 02/26/09, 4:44 PM

RNG guys. Is your crit rate on every shot the same as the WWS you're comparing to? I myself have yet to have a Patchwerk kill where my crit was anywhere near where it should be.

Eraist · 02/26/09, 5:01 PM

Originally Posted by Methical

RNG guys. Is your crit rate on every shot the same as the WWS you're comparing to? I myself have yet to have a Patchwerk kill where my crit was anywhere near where it should be.

I randomly chose a couple hunters to compare. I don't know either of these guys or guilds.

WWS
Wow Web Stats
Armory
The World of Warcraft Armory

WWS
Wow Web Stats

Armory
The World of Warcraft Armory

Mine
WWS
Wow Web Stats

Armory
The World of Warcraft Armory

Gear is pretty close, specs vary slightly, but overall it's relatively close.

Now if you look at the overall damage, I did more than both, but their DPS was much higher than mine. They both have 3% more crit, but I cannot see that meaning 700-800 more DPS.

I'm just trying to figure out why their avg DPS is higher.

Gutchewa · 02/26/09, 5:08 PM

Originally Posted by Eraist

I'm just trying to figure out why their avg DPS is higher.

The length of the fight is the reason your dps is lower, 1m52s to your 3m10s.

Har · 02/26/09, 5:12 PM

Originally Posted by Eraist

I randomly chose a couple hunters to compare. I don't know either of these guys or guilds.
[snip]
Gear is pretty close, specs vary slightly, but overall it's relatively close.

Now if you look at toverall damage, I did more than both, but their DPS was much higher than mine. They both have 3% more crit, but I cannot see that meaning 700-800 more DPS.

I'm just trying to figure out why their avg DPS is higher.

Before we go parsing through these logs to figure out what you're doing differently, have you compared the buffs and debuffs? These are huge factors. I have gotten 4900DPS on a guild 25 man patch kill, then gone into a pug wintergrasp and gotten 3200.

• Nagisamuro · 02/26/09, 5:14 PM

Originally Posted by Eraist

Gear is pretty close, specs vary slightly, but overall it's relatively close.

Now if you look at toverall damage, I did more than both, but their DPS was much higher than mine.

I'm just trying to figure out why their avg DPS is higher.

That's because your fight was over a minute longer than theirs, which is a minute more than they spent without bloodlust or other long cooldown abilities in effect, which brings the average down dramatically.

[...assuming that WWS is wrong when it says you had two bloodlusts in the 3 minute fight...]

Eraist · 02/26/09, 5:14 PM

Originally Posted by Gutchewa

The length of the fight is the reason your dps is lower, 1m52s to your 3m10s.

I know they are in much higher ranked guilds, but will cutting the fight by 70 sec drop DPS that much?

I'm just trying to understand why because I feel like I'm leaving something on the table.

As far as comparing the buffs, No. My guild runs with the same standard buffs that most good guilds use. It could be a factor, but not 800 DPS worth.

Riqi · 02/26/09, 5:45 PM

Originally Posted by Eraist

I know they are in much higher ranked guilds, but will cutting the fight by 70 sec drop DPS that much?

Actually, yes it will. DPS is "damage per second", or, "total damage" / "length of time". To increase the value, either cause more damage in the same amount of time, cause the same amount of damage in less time, or cause more damage in less time.

Looking at just the first random hunter parse you picked, the total kill took 1m50s. He participated for 1m48s (108s), and caused 600,246 damage. At 1m48s, that gives him 5557.83 DPS. However, lets assume it took him 2 seconds longer (matching the length of combat time). Those two seconds would drop his DPS to 5456.78, over 100 DPS loss for just two seconds.

Your apparent "value" in a raid very much depends on the performance of everyone else in the raid. You could be awesome, but if the raid as a whole sucks, then your awesomeness would be hindered by the raid's lackluster performance.

Neverest · 02/26/09, 6:07 PM

Hi, one silly question, I just download the Spread sheet, but I can't use any option as CalcAttributes or Import from File. Because it keep saying the file is read-only(using Excel 2007), it's protected, and when I try to unprotect it it needs a password. Anything I can do about it? Thanks!

Eraist · 02/26/09, 6:28 PM

Originally Posted by Riqi

Actually, yes it will. DPS is "damage per second", or, "total damage" / "length of time". To increase the value, either cause more damage in the same amount of time, cause the same amount of damage in less time, or cause more damage in less time.

Looking at just the first random hunter parse you picked, the total kill took 1m50s. He participated for 1m48s (108s), and caused 600,246 damage. At 1m48s, that gives him 5557.83 DPS. However, lets assume it took him 2 seconds longer (matching the length of combat time). Those two seconds would drop his DPS to 5456.78, over 100 DPS loss for just two seconds.

Your apparent "value" in a raid very much depends on the performance of everyone else in the raid. You could be awesome, but if the raid as a whole sucks, then your awesomeness would be hindered by the raid's lackluster performance.

So what you're saying is, my guild is holding me back. Those Bastards! I guess that makes sense.

Danzou · 02/26/09, 6:46 PM

No one who think the thing i wrote is a true miss in the spreadsheet or is it intended?

WotLK DPS spreadsheet

Shandara · 02/26/09, 8:12 PM

Originally Posted by Danzou

I have a question. On the spreadsheet there is something fuzzy with the cast of rapid fire. As it is now on the ptr it does not procc GCD but it is still afflicted by it.

Here on the Screenshot you can see Start cast 1.6, Cast end 1.7. But then you see Start cast on Serpent Sting on 3.2.

As Rapid fire does not procc GCD should not the Serpent sting start cast on 1.7?

Hope someone can help me with this one.

This is a bug with the spreadsheet. Although the averaged out priority system takes Rapid Fire off the GCD the rotation test is still putting it on the GCD. I'll have this fixed next version.

KraxisSingular · 02/26/09, 10:08 PM

Originally Posted by Riqi

Your apparent "value" in a raid very much depends on the performance of everyone else in the raid. You could be awesome, but if the raid as a whole sucks, then your awesomeness would be hindered by the raid's lackluster performance.

Ok, I generally don't like people that nitpick too much, but if we discount Bloodlust and other temporary boosts that are affected by time spent (like trinkets and Rapid Fire, but both of those can at certain time marks return a considerable amount of DPS), then what you say shouldn't be true.
Since our nice friendly Hunter would not have any factors that causes him to hit for less or less often. His DPS should be steady, regardless of the fight lasts 1 minute or 6 minutes. It is Bloodlust alone that affects the decrease in DPS in slow vs fast kills assuming the same Hunter. No Bloodlust and his results should show much the same DPS, but with a vastly increased damageoutput in the slow fight (more time = more damage from the same Hunter).

If we were to take the example of the 100 DPS loss from 2 seconds, that would require the Hunter to recall his pet and stop shooting altogether for those seconds. That isn't too likely is it?

Sylvand · 02/26/09, 10:31 PM

Originally Posted by KraxisSingular

Ok, I generally don't like people that nitpick too much, but if we discount Bloodlust and other temporary boosts that are affected by time spent (like trinkets and Rapid Fire, but both of those can at certain time marks return a considerable amount of DPS), then what you say shouldn't be true.
Since our nice friendly Hunter would not have any factors that causes him to hit for less or less often. His DPS should be steady, regardless of the fight lasts 1 minute or 6 minutes. It is Bloodlust alone that affects the decrease in DPS in slow vs fast kills assuming the same Hunter. No Bloodlust and his results should show much the same DPS, but with a vastly increased damageoutput in the slow fight (more time = more damage from the same Hunter).

If we were to take the example of the 100 DPS loss from 2 seconds, that would require the Hunter to recall his pet and stop shooting altogether for those seconds. That isn't too likely is it?

Your argument is valid but not sound. It is just not reasonable to discount bloodlust, trinkets or cooldowns.

thehittmann1981 · 02/27/09, 12:22 AM

I do not see any multi or aimed shots in your rotation. That's at least a 5% dps loss. What were you doing instead? badly scaled Steady Shots or clipping Explosive shots with another Explosive Shot? Hopefully you MD pulled with the Arcane Shot also otherwise that is a bit left field.

This is not the thread to talk about your dps and the conversation topic should be kept on topic (Shandaras Spreadsheet). If you think the spreadsheet is incorrect make a suggestion as to what you think is wrong. Personally i dont see any problems with it and i regularly get very close to my theoretical dps outcome. Feel free to armory me too if you like.

KraxisSingular · 02/27/09, 12:32 AM

Originally Posted by Sylvand

Your argument is valid but not sound. It is just not reasonable to discount bloodlust, trinkets or cooldowns.

But just adding 2 seconds without adding the damage in those two seconds is?

Rezdan · 02/27/09, 12:55 AM

His point is sound Kraxis. Logic will tell each of us that the more time spent outside of Heroism (and to a lesser extent procs such as trinket/lnl/rapidfire/callofthewild) the less dps we have. Look at the WMO Realtime Raid DPS graph as an example.

Namarus · 02/27/09, 2:42 AM

Originally Posted by KraxisSingular

Ok, I generally don't like people that nitpick too much, but if we discount Bloodlust and other temporary boosts that are affected by time spent (like trinkets and Rapid Fire, but both of those can at certain time marks return a considerable amount of DPS), then what you say shouldn't be true.
Since our nice friendly Hunter would not have any factors that causes him to hit for less or less often. His DPS should be steady, regardless of the fight lasts 1 minute or 6 minutes. It is Bloodlust alone that affects the decrease in DPS in slow vs fast kills assuming the same Hunter. No Bloodlust and his results should show much the same DPS, but with a vastly increased damageoutput in the slow fight (more time = more damage from the same Hunter).

If we were to take the example of the 100 DPS loss from 2 seconds, that would require the Hunter to recall his pet and stop shooting altogether for those seconds. That isn't too likely is it?

I think you are being nit picky here. He/she is using an example to illustrate a point. Pretty much all raid dps is front loaded. So the shorter the fight the higher the overall dps, as dps time increases overall raid dps decreases.

Belzi.ET · 02/27/09, 11:32 AM

Talking about heroism/lust, I got a small "bug" in the spreadsheet.
Currently, the cooldown of heroism is set to the following:

=IF(UseHeroism="Once";BossFightLength*60;300)

With the upcoming patch, the cooldown of heroism will be 300 seconds, that's true.
But you gain the debuff "exhausted" for 600 seconds (10 minutes) and therefor can't enjoy the effect of a second heroism within this time. At least if you don't die

Originally Posted by Patchnotes

# Bloodlust/Heroism: Cooldown reduced to 5 minutes, but Sated and Exhausted now last 10 minutes.