WotLK DPS spreadsheet - Page 70

SenorPez · 02/27/09, 11:59 AM

Originally Posted by Neverest

Hi, one silly question, I just download the Spread sheet, but I can't use any option as CalcAttributes or Import from File. Because it keep saying the file is read-only(using Excel 2007), it's protected, and when I try to unprotect it it needs a password. Anything I can do about it? Thanks!

You don't need to unprotect the sheet. Protection is there so that you don't screw up any of the formulas that run behind the scenes.

Make sure:

You're using Excel, and not something like Works or OpenOffice that's masquerading as Excel.
You're not running on a Mac. VBA support on Mac Office is gone.
You've enabled macros. Many of the buttons, including the ones you're mentioning, are tied to macros. If you've got macros disabled, they won't do anything.

baklava · 02/27/09, 12:13 PM

Something is weird, when I spec to BM with the new pet talents with good items, I reached 8k dps... :S is it possible?

alienangel · 02/27/09, 12:55 PM

That's what my sheet is showing too, at least with 85a (85b slightly lower of course). The pet does 1.5 times the DPS I do o.O

Make sure you don't still have explosive shot in your shot rotation though.

Shandara · 02/27/09, 1:34 PM

Originally Posted by alienangel

That's what my sheet is showing too, at least with 85a (85b slightly lower of course). The pet does 1.5 times the DPS I do o.O

Make sure you don't still have explosive shot in your shot rotation though.

Well the Wild Hunt pet talent increases the AP your pet gets from 22% to 62%. Given how well pets scale with AP this is not a bug with the sheet but the result.

Ebonleaf · 02/27/09, 2:31 PM

Nevermind, I figured it out.

Shandara · 02/27/09, 2:35 PM

Originally Posted by Ebonleaf

Nevermind, I figured it out.

Which cells bug out? I've tried it myself but I can't seem to get it to bug.

jon-spain · 02/27/09, 3:40 PM

Hi, first time using the spreadsheet so this may be a silly question, but here goes.

I've cleared the spreadsheet and set up all the tabs as per my current char (including shot rotations etc.) and whilst the Pet dps calculations seem to be almost spot on compared to some training dummy tests I've done, my own dps seems to be considerably out.

Now I know this may be because I'm nit the perfect hunter ;-) however the discrepency is over 10% and as far as I can tell unlike my test dummy runs the spreadsheet is never modelling me go into viper aspect.

Looking at the shot rotation tab the Aspect usage has the following values (the values also don't change when I change the aspect usage setting - although the title cell does).

Aspect Usage (mode: Viper - Regen)	
Viper Regen                       569.26
Normal Regen                      14.77
Regen from Mana Potion            0.00
Mana Expenditure                  167.20
Time to Full                      25.94
Time to OOM                       70.92
Viper time needed to last fight   29.21
Aspect of the Beast Uptime        0.00%
Viper Uptime                      0.00%
Hawk Uptime                       100.00%
Viper Damage Penalty              0.00%
Aspect of the Beast AP bonus      0.00%
Aspect of the Hawk Penalty        0.00

So my question is, if it knows 'viper time to last fight' is ~30 seconds why is viper uptime 0% and Hawk uptime 100%.

Am i just completely missing the point?

Sythe

Ebonleaf · 02/27/09, 3:51 PM

Originally Posted by Ebonleaf
Nevermind, I figured it out.

Which cells bug out? I've tried it myself but I can't seem to get it to bug.

I was being foolish and dropped too many points in. On a side note, that might not be a bad idea. Add in a little points counter, for how many you have left or something. Just a thought.

Argg0 · 02/27/09, 5:35 PM

Is Berserking (Troll Racial) implemented? There is a minor DPS loss on using it.

alienangel · 02/27/09, 6:53 PM

Originally Posted by Shandara

Well the Wild Hunt pet talent increases the AP your pet gets from 22% to 62%. Given how well pets scale with AP this is not a bug with the sheet but the result.

Oh I wasn't implying that the sheet is bugged sorry, I was replying to reassure the poster that pets are in fact ridiculously OP as BM right now if their AP tooltips are correct.

Shandara · 02/28/09, 6:44 AM

Originally Posted by alienangel

Oh I wasn't implying that the sheet is bugged sorry, I was replying to reassure the poster that pets are in fact ridiculously OP as BM right now if their AP tooltips are correct.

I wasn't implying you were implying that either. English is not my main language, sorry.

Update:

- Rapid Fire is now off the GCD for the rotation test.
- Kill Shot on the GCD again
- Filter pet ability dropdown menu to remove all the spurious "none" entries
- Changed boss armor to 10650 and changed the way armor reduction %-based effects are handled
- All pets now have normalized 105% damage/armor/hp
- Pet spell-hit now is the same as physical hit
- Sunder Armor and Faerie Fire now multiplicative
- Feeding Frenzy now 8/16% bonus instead of 6/12%
- Roar of Recovery now 3 min CD
- Troll Berserking added
- Rotation test will now wait for ES/CS CD if they are less than 0.5 seconds to go.
- no L&L internal CD any more (as per testing on EJ)
- Heroism now has a 10 min CD (although it has a in-game CD of 5 mins the debuff you get is 10 mins)

This should cover most of the announced changes.

Joheltro · 02/28/09, 10:11 AM

Using Chimera Glyph does not change dps at all over no glyph as MM with latest version.
Tried even with a shot rotation with only Chimera shot being used.
Same with Killshot glyph it seems.

Shandara · 02/28/09, 10:21 AM

Originally Posted by Joheltro

Using Chimera Glyph does not change dps at all over no glyph as MM with latest version.
Tried even with a shot rotation with only Chimera shot being used.
Same with Killshot glyph it seems.

My fault in part.

The current loaded profile on the sheet is my PTR test set-up. It has kill shot disabled on the settings page. Also, the latency is set to a higher value than normal (200ms) which means that even with 1 sec off Chimera Shot the GCD + latency makes it so you can't fire more Chimera Shots in any case.

Solution:
Clear the custom settings on the "Settings" tab and set latency back to 100 ms (i.e. 0,1 sec).

Sylvand · 02/28/09, 7:46 PM

I have a question about the LnL calculations. In particular I'm looking at 85c with the 1/18/52 - Cat pre-PTR profile (I did change the latency to 100ms and set "Interleave Steady Shot for L&L" to No).

If I select "use shot rotation test" I tend to get a dps figure for ES of about 1990 (I've done 13 tests of 2500 shots so far). Disabling this setting shows a dps value of 2156, for a whopping 166 dps potentially overestimated (the STDEV of the trials I ran is about 20). Note that the special shot dps in these two cases is 3212 vs. 3382, or 170 dps difference. This strongly suggests an overestimation so I was curious how exactly this was formulated.

Looking through the settings, the "Lock&Load # of shots replaced" suggests that 2 "shots" get subtracted out while two ES get added in (i.e. 6 ticks).

However as I went over in the 3.1 changes thread, it should be more like 2 shots for 4/3 ES (i.e. 4 ticks). Using the numbers in the calculations sheet, we should have:

15202.12 damage in 4 ticks of ES
60.86 seconds between LnL proc
~250 increase in ES dps from LnL

Without LnL talent, ES is listed as 1781.50 dps, adding the 250 gives 2031.5, which is much closer to the 1990 but I believe it's still high because it doesn't factor in the 100ms latency that I'm using for the rest of the figures.

Anyway a lower bound for the damage lost will be 2 steady shots. It may be a bit higher than this if aimed shot or serpent sting are also delayed in the ES spam. Again by the spreadsheet, it should be:

7113.6 damage lost in steady shots per LnL
117 steady shot dps lost per LnL

250 - 117 is 133 net dps gain, adding onto the 3079 for the calculated special shot dps yields 3212 special shot dps, which is also the average I got out of the shot rotation tests I did. This of course should be a coincidence, considering my ES dps is showing a bit lower than what I calculated, but it's a sign that we're on the right track.

edit: I just wanted to note, I used the talent spec just as it was in the profile, meaning that these tests used an incorrect spec that uses 74 talent points and doesn't actually spec into black arrow. Hopefully, the findings are meaninful anyway.

Chul · 02/28/09, 8:35 PM

Originally Posted by Shandara

Well the Wild Hunt pet talent increases the AP your pet gets from 22% to 62%. Given how well pets scale with AP this is not a bug with the sheet but the result.

I doubt very much that is the way they'll do that as that would be a 200% increase. It'll be 22%*1.40 not 22%+40%.

Sylvand · 02/28/09, 9:06 PM

Originally Posted by Chul

I doubt very much that is the way they'll do that as that would be a 200% increase. It'll be 22%*1.40 not 22%+40%.

The spreadsheet accurately models the current implementation of Wild Hunt as on the PTR right now (e.g. my pet will get an extra 1661 AP while my AP is 3955). It's widely agreed that it will change before going live but until there is an announcement there's no use in speculating.

Chul · 02/28/09, 9:47 PM

Originally Posted by Sylvand

The spreadsheet accurately models the current implementation of Wild Hunt as on the PTR right now (e.g. my pet will get an extra 1661 AP while my AP is 3955). It's widely agreed that it will change before going live but until there is an announcement there's no use in speculating.

No it doesn't. Wild Hunt does nothing on the PTR right now. Tested with a Tenacity pet and a Ferocity pet.

However, my scorpid pet does seem bugged with extra AP, which I cannot get rid of even with unlearning my pets talents. I think it may have worked like that at one point, but in the latest PTR version, it doesn't.

EDIT: Swapped my scorpid pet in an out of the stables, and its AP is back to normal and WH does nothing.

Sylvand · 02/28/09, 10:05 PM

Originally Posted by Chul

No it doesn't. Wild Hunt does nothing on the PTR right now. Tested with a Tenacity pet and a Ferocity pet.

However, my scorpid pet does seem bugged with extra AP, which I cannot get rid of even with unlearning my pets talents. I think it may have worked like that at one point, but in the latest PTR version, it doesn't.

EDIT: Swapped my scorpid pet in an out of the stables, and its AP is back to normal and WH does nothing.

Untalent your pet and sic it on a training dummy. See how its melee strikes compare when it has 0/2, 1/2 and 2/2 Wild Hunt (wait ~15 seconds for the talents to kick in). It is clearly working. I agree there is a bug somewhere though, either in the UI or in how pet talents are working with dual spec. Those bugs are easily enough worked around though.

Sebudai · 02/28/09, 10:07 PM

Yeah, my Wild Hunt works on the PTR. It didn't display the benefits of the talents in the pet window until my pet attacked something though. I think it's primarily just a display bug.

Chul · 02/28/09, 11:10 PM

Yeah you're right. I added 2/2 WH and looked at the increase in Claw damage and calculated it would need 40% of my hunters AP to reach that. So it looks like the stamina part doesn't work at all, and the extra AP simply isn't showing on the UI.

Steelfleece · 03/01/09, 2:08 AM

Originally Posted by Chul

No it doesn't. Wild Hunt does nothing on the PTR right now. Tested with a Tenacity pet and a Ferocity pet.

However, my scorpid pet does seem bugged with extra AP, which I cannot get rid of even with unlearning my pets talents. I think it may have worked like that at one point, but in the latest PTR version, it doesn't.

EDIT: Swapped my scorpid pet in an out of the stables, and its AP is back to normal and WH does nothing.

Must be an isolated incident. I JUST NOW logged in to check, and both 1/2 Wild Hunt and 2/2 Wild Hunt Stamina AND Attack Power tooltips updated properly after taking the talent, then mounting/dismounting.

Dch48 · 03/01/09, 2:43 AM

Wild hunt is working perfectly on the PTR. It gives my pets almost 50% more health. The only thing that does happen is this. When you select the talent, the pet's AP does not change until you change aspects. I changed from DH to Viper and then back and it works perfectly and does retain it if the pet is stabled and then brought back out. Changing the aspects seems to force a recalculation of the contributions from the Hunter's stats. I also do not think that the way it is working will be changed. Ghostcrawler has already said that they like where BM is right now and when I plug my gear into the spreadsheet with the survival spec, and then redo the AP gems and enchants with agility, The dps I come up with is almost identical to my BM spec. This is what they were aiming at and I think they have hit the mark.

The thing that is not working right on the PTR is furious howl. It ups the wolf's AP but does nothing for the Hunter.

Nooska · 03/01/09, 2:28 PM

I'm not sure this is a bug report, but its a report of an oddity.

Version 84 (I am using it for live, so hevn't upgraded, but I doubt the behavior has been changed)

It concerns the gear planners sorting of trinkets.
Not so much the relative values (as those, of course, depend on the rest of my gear) but of the sorting after the relative values have been calculated:

Here is a Screenshot of what I mean:

Grim Toll is obviously the most dps contributing of my trinkets.
The sorting is set to "Assume 100% hit: No" (which should increase Grim Toll by a significant amount)

Going by the delta values, no other trinket would be a dps increase for me, yet Grim Toll sorts as number 10.
This has happened after I recalculated the attribute values recently, as it was showing as number 1 previously.

All this aside, For some reason sorting the trinkets places Grim Toll below several trinkets which have a negative delta value for both trinkets. I have previously experienced weirdness in sorting trinkets and 1-handers where what would be an upgrade to one would be a downgrade to the other, even though it wasn't intuitively so; The item would be an upgrade to my best, and a downgrade to my worst - but thats understandable due to the multiple factors that goes into calculating each items dps values - I guess the question in this is; is there a perfectly reasonable explanation for the sorting of an item beneath items with double negative delta values?

In case its of help, my current pawnstring is: ( Pawn: v1: "Nooska - Jakkon": Agility=0,75, Stamina=0, Intellect=0,438, RedSocket=12,747, YellowSocket=12,747, BlueSocket=12,747, MetaSocket=45,953, HitRating=0,762, CritRating=0,514, HasteRating=0,321, Ap=0,398, Rap=0,398, ArmorPenetration=0,473, Mp5=0 )

Iru · 03/01/09, 4:03 PM

Sorting uses the slot position for priority, i.e. sorting looks at the item in trinket & ring slot 1 for ordering purposes. Swap the order of your trinkets in the sheet and see what happens

Shandara · 03/01/09, 6:21 PM

This is unfortunately a limitation of the implementation of the gear planner, since Trinkets are drawn from a single list and I can (obviously) only sort it one way at a time.