That is how the spreadsheet works. An average would be just as wrong if not even more wrong. I'll try to walk you through the logic as I understand it.
When calculating the value of a certain item, the gear planner will un-equip the current item in the slot and test out every item available for the slot. It will record the change in DPS and that's the value it shows on the gear planner. Now, since there are two ring slots this happens for each one.
Here's an example of a Hunter that is just Hit-Capped using one ring with No Hit on his first slot, and one with Hit on his second ring slot.
When the gear planner removes the first ring and tests out all available rings, this hunter is STILL Hit-Capped causing any Hit stats to not contribute at all to the DPS Value of each. Now, when the gear planner removes the second ring and tests out all available rings, this Hunter falls under the Hit Cap and Hit stats contribute significantly to the DPS Value of each item. So, the gear planner shows the values of each item in each slot(sorted by value in the first ring slot). The gear planner will show that the Hit rings will result in DPS Lost if equiped in the first slot, but that they are the best in slot for the 2nd slot. This is correct and what currently happens.
This is how the spreadsheet works and I don't see that Averaging will give better results.
Okay I tried to find an answer to this and doesn't seem like anyone asked it.
On the new spreadsheet, Cunning and Tenacity pets can only get 1 pt in new pet talents, instead of 2.
It takes 15 spent talent points to access the last(new) tier. That leaves only 1 pt left to spend in new talents if you're not specced into Beast Mastery's 51pointer. This applies to all three pet trees. Pet Calculator - Wowhead
[Bug] Deadly Gladiator's Band of Victor is still listed as Deadly Gladiator's Band of Triumph and won't load from the Armory.
Also please add the frost resist gear to the spreadsheet.
Now comes the unusual request. For use with pet tanking I'd greatly appreciate if a display for Threat per second be added to the Pet tab. I understand the threat generation formulas for certain abilities can be complex and hard to calculate, but I'd certainly be willing to help test if needed.
Thank you for all your hard work on this never ending project, we'd be lost without it.
It takes 15 spent talent points to access the last(new) tier. That leaves only 1 pt left to spend in new talents if you're not specced into Beast Mastery's 51pointer. This applies to all three pet trees. Pet Calculator - Wowhead
Is this what you meant?
No, I mean if you try to spec the cunning and tenacity trees in the spreadsheet, Wild Hunt and Silverback only have 1 rank each. Can't put 2 points in it regardless of whether I have Beast Mastery talent or not. I was trying to see what kind of dps non-ferocity pets would do, but since I can't put 2 points in Wild Hunt, it hurts the dps quite a bit.
I downloaded the latest live version of your spreadsheet. However, whenever I try to load my profile from the armory, it says, "There is no Nerzhan of Dethecus on the U.S. servers." I have enabled macros. I tried to work the spreadsheet earlier today and it did not work then either. Could anyone help me figure out how to get this working? I have had older versions of your spreadsheet work, so I do not understand why this one doesn't load my armory. Thanks in advance.
That message indicates that the armoury is unavailable. Try pulling up your profile using IE, and re-attempt the download if that works. Note I said IE, not any random browser, as Excel uses the IE engine for http retrieval under the covers and so tests with J.Random Browser may not prove anything.
That message indicates that the armoury is unavailable. Try pulling up your profile using IE, and re-attempt the download if that works. Note I said IE, not any random browser, as Excel uses the IE engine for http retrieval under the covers and so tests with J.Random Browser may not prove anything.
I just tried to get on armory using Internet Explorer, only to be confounded by the following message:
Cannot view XML input using XSL style sheet. Please correct the error and then click the Refresh button, or try again later.
Edit: I forgot this part of the message as well:
A string literal was not closed.
I assume after I fix this I will be able to download my armory profile. Thanks
That is how the spreadsheet works. An average would be just as wrong if not even more wrong. I'll try to walk you through the logic as I understand it.
When calculating the value of a certain item, the gear planner will un-equip the current item in the slot and test out every item available for the slot. It will record the change in DPS and that's the value it shows on the gear planner. Now, since there are two ring slots this happens for each one.
Here's an example of a Hunter that is just Hit-Capped using one ring with No Hit on his first slot, and one with Hit on his second ring slot.
When the gear planner removes the first ring and tests out all available rings, this hunter is STILL Hit-Capped causing any Hit stats to not contribute at all to the DPS Value of each. Now, when the gear planner removes the second ring and tests out all available rings, this Hunter falls under the Hit Cap and Hit stats contribute significantly to the DPS Value of each item. So, the gear planner shows the values of each item in each slot(sorted by value in the first ring slot). The gear planner will show that the Hit rings will result in DPS Lost if equiped in the first slot, but that they are the best in slot for the 2nd slot. This is correct and what currently happens.
This is how the spreadsheet works and I don't see that Averaging will give better results.
It's well understood the limitation of the gear planner to only point upgrades. The 'problem' as it has been noted is that items which are not upgrades for either slot (ring, 1H or trinket) may appear above a currently equipped item. If an item is an upgrade for one slot, I think it's okay to appear the slot for which it is not an upgrade, but if it is not an upgrade for either slot, shouldn't it appear beneath both slots? Also it would ideally list the biggest upgrades not restricted by which slot they would have to replace. That is why I suggest using the maximum (not average) delta for sorting.
A little bit non-standart question:
Is there possibility to fast import gear in Shandara spreadsheet without armory?
I mean some trick like "Copy"/"Past Special".
I need to import gear that i don't have actually.
It's well understood the limitation of the gear planner to only point upgrades. The 'problem' as it has been noted is that items which are not upgrades for either slot (ring, 1H or trinket) may appear above a currently equipped item. If an item is an upgrade for one slot, I think it's okay to appear the slot for which it is not an upgrade, but if it is not an upgrade for either slot, shouldn't it appear beneath both slots? Also it would ideally list the biggest upgrades not restricted by which slot they would have to replace. That is why I suggest using the maximum (not average) delta for sorting.
I haven't found any issues of items that aren't upgrades of the first slot (ring/1h,trinket) being overrated. It is sorted according to the first slot and was designed this way. Maybe what you'ld prefer is a separate Gear Planner thing for each ring/trinket/1H slot?
Here's the example given before:
As you can see, it is correctly sorted by the Delta of the First slot.
A little bit non-standart question:
Is there possibility to fast import gear in Shandara spreadsheet without armory?
I mean some trick like "Copy"/"Past Special".
I need to import gear that i don't have actually.
This is something I have been considering. Much like talent strings it should be possible to describe all gear in a single string somehow.
@Trinkets/Ring sorting
The Gear Planner doesn't actually try out each item (unlike Ranged weapons where it does have to), it determines the dps based on some calculations for each stat's worth. Now for items which have 2 equal slots (Trinkets and Rings) there's still only 1 list.
Long ago it only listed 1 dps value, which was a comparison with the first trinket/ring only. This meant you had to swap rings/trinkets around each time to get the values for both your equipped ones.
Still a while back I changed it showed at least the delta for both slots. Mind you each ring/trinket has 2 numbers. The first shows the delta compared to the top trinket/ring slot, the second number show the delta compared to the bottom one.
These numbers don't really have any meaning if I'd sort on the highest amongst both, since they are both comparison to different items.
The only real solution would be duplicating the current Ring/Trinket tabs and make 2 different sortings based on different trinket/ring slots.
I've found easy but slow way to import gear in your spreadsheet.
I can create excel file containing the same info as 'gear' tab.
Next I modify everything what I want.
And next i can "Copy" and "Paste Special"->"Values". There is forbidden only copying 'Bonus achieved' field.
Is it correct? Can i cause something wrong in spreadsheet?
I understand the sorting thing, and even know when it switched then, I have (without thinking deeply about it) switched my trinkets around, and did a fresh armoury import - thus I get my "easier to read" (for me) sorting back if I switch back around again. Oddity solved.
From Rezdans explanation of the logic I do have an additional question, that might have been answered in Shandaras explanation of how the sorting works;
Is it correct that a +hit is "ignored" for slots that currently have no +hit in them?
I.e. Rings, ring A has no hit rating, ring B has hitrating. For deltavalues of ring A (being the first) hit is ignored because you don't need hit?
If so can this be circumvented with the "assume 100% hit" setting?
I want to value hit very much, as I find it a bit hard to actually balance my hitrating as close to 263 as possible, meaning that items that show as an upgrade might not be if hit is discounted?
I notices in the stat values that hit is still a very valuable stat even though I am hitcapped, I am also wondering if hit is overvalued when capped - as shown in the pawn string I included, hitrating is valued at 0.762 dps value, while 2 ap is at 0.796 dps value, but we know that additional hit would not increase my dps the slightest as I am at 264 hit rating, so hit would only be valuable if I lose some in the exchange, where AP will always be valuable.
I ask becaus eI am trying to understand how the calculations are done as I use the stat values in overview for quick and dirty calculations on what gems, enchants etc to use (and if the values are "flawed" for that purpose).
No, I mean if you try to spec the cunning and tenacity trees in the spreadsheet, Wild Hunt and Silverback only have 1 rank each. Can't put 2 points in it regardless of whether I have Beast Mastery talent or not. I was trying to see what kind of dps non-ferocity pets would do, but since I can't put 2 points in Wild Hunt, it hurts the dps quite a bit.
Small error in spreadsheet
Last lvl of pet talents
Cunning:
Wild hunt should be 2 point talent (only 1point in spreadsheet 85c)
Roar of sacrifice - 6th tier as 1 point talent
Grace of Mantis 5th tier as 2 point talent (only 1 point in spreadsheet 85c)
Tenacity:
Wild hunt should be 2 point talent (only 1 point in spreadsheet 85c)
Silverback should be 2 point talent (only 1 point in spreadsheet 85c)
The value of hit on the "Overview" tab list is a more general concept. It is the average dps increase you get from going from 0 hit to hit-capped in +1 steps.
As for your other question, even if your currently equipped item has 0 hit rating the Gear Planner considers any hit on compared items. Of course if you are hit-capped any +hit on those items isn't used because swapping the items would still leave you hit-capped, just more so.
For the "Assume 100% hit" function, it has never really functioned the way I wanted so I've made some changes to the next version that should hopefully clear it up. It will then just zero out the values for +hit on the overview tab so that all comparisons on the Gear Planner will then value +hit at 0 dps.
EDIT:
@Atuin, noted. This will be fixed next version.
It works the way Ive been thinking all along then, and the change to "Assume 100% hit" sounds very good, and very intuitive - looking forward to 3.1 when I can start using the new functionality.
- Made some changes to the Gear Planner 'Assume 100% hit' so it devalues all hit completely now
- Trap Mastery now affects Immolation Trap damage
- Tenacity/Cunning mobs now have proper 2 pts talents at the highest tier (Wild Hunt and Silverback/Graxce of the Mantis)
- Spelling corrected on Deadly Gladiator's Band of Victory
- Corrected Cunning pet talent tree to account for the new changes (addition of Roar of Sacrifice, moving of grace of mantis)
- Added a gear import/export string to the overview tab
Try out the gear import/export string feature. I cooked it up in about an hour, but it has a modicum of error-checking built-in to prevent invalid items and such. It's human-readable at the moment and I like that. Encoding it in some way (even if I could use ItemIDs) probably won't make it better.
Try out the gear import/export string feature. I cooked it up in about an hour, but it has a modicum of error-checking built-in to prevent invalid items and such.
Doesn't work for me. I did export - successful. Next, import and... Microsoft Visual Basic reports:
Run-time error '9':
Subscript out of range
Actually i even can't find export file.
I saw Hunter_dps.bin in %mydoc% folder, next i removed it because of thinking that old version may cause problem.
Now it even doesn't be created.
Is it possible to make second field where is possible 'Paste' string?
And button 'Parse' with the same function as 'Import'?
I just want to use copy/paste for import/export. It's easy and more intuitively.
Originally Posted by Shandara
It's human-readable at the moment and I like that. Encoding it in some way (even if I could use ItemIDs) probably won't make it better.
If this string allow unequivocal parsing it's good. I think it is, at least you parse it.
Are you using the 2 buttons next the input field on the Overview tab?
You can copy the text in that field out and/or paste something else in there and then hit the 'Import Gear String' button to import it.
If you are using the 'Export to File'/'Import from File' buttons they have nothing to do with this, but are for exporting the whole sheet's settings to file. Likely I broke that because I made some corrections to the pet talents.
The basic idea is just copy and paste someone else's string into your sheet:
V1:Calamity's Grasp;Greater Potency (One Hand);None;None;None;Torment of the Banished;Accuracy;None;None;None;Hyaline Helm of the Sniper;Arcanum of Torment;Relentless Earthsiege Diamond (21 Agi);Rigid Autumn's Glow (16 Hit);None;Pendant of the Outcast Hero;None;None;Beast-tamer's Shoulders;Greater Inscription of the Axe;None;None;Hammerhead Sharkskin Cloak;None;None;Valorous Cryptstalker Tunic;Super Stats;Bright Scarlet Ruby (32 AP);Infused Twilight Opal (16 Ap, 3 Mp5);None;Bands of Anxiety;Fur Lining - Attack Power;None;None;Valorous Cryptstalker Handguards;Major Agility;Rigid Autumn's Glow (16 Hit);None;None;Vereesa's Silver Chain Belt;Belt-Clipped Spynoculars;Infused Twilight Opal (16 Ap, 3 Mp5);None;None;Leggings of Failed Escape;Icescale Leg Armor;Bright Scarlet Ruby (32 AP);Infused Twilight Opal (16 Ap, 3 Mp5);None;Trespasser's Boots;Icewalker;None;None;Mobius Band;None;None;Ring of Invincibility;None;None;Mirror of Truth;None;None;Loatheb's Shadow;None;None;Accursed Bow of the Elite;Heartseeker Scope;None;None;Netherscale Ammo Pouch;Terrorshaft Arrow;
Yeah, I use "Export Gear String" and "Import Gear String".
Sorry, I thought that it's implemented by .bin file.
Anyways VB reports about "Error 9". It doesn't work in my system.
I have no idea why
May be it's my excel2007. But all other features work.
Yeah, I use "Export Gear String" and "Import Gear String".
Sorry, I thought that it's implemented by .bin file.
Anyways VB reports about "Error 9". It doesn't work in my system.
I have no idea why
May be it's my excel2007. But all other features work.
Most odd. Can you upload your sheet somewhere?
Made a small re-upload which fixes a few things (like damn excel always wanting to do partial matching instead of EXACT matches).
03/01/09, 11:09 PM
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