Heh, I've started to play around with the new Ulduar gear that was put in - it's not looking good for BM at all. BM's getting about 200 less DPS than Survival out of the best gear configs I could come up with right now.
I've got about a 350 gain for BM, 550 for Survival, and 610 for Marks.
That's with BM still using the T7.5 2 piece bonus too, or else it has an even bigger loss (Survival and Marks do not need to keep the T7.5 2 piece bonus).
Heh, I've started to play around with the new Ulduar gear that was put in - it's not looking good for BM at all. BM's getting about 200 less DPS than Survival out of the best gear configs I could come up with right now.
I've got about a 350 gain for BM, 550 for Survival, and 610 for Marks.
That's with BM still using the T7.5 2 piece bonus too, or else it has an even bigger loss (Survival and Marks do not need to keep the T7.5 2 piece bonus).
The T7 set bonus is starting to look a lot like feral T4 did in TBC, which is to say basically it couldnt be done without for a long time (2T4 lasted until 4tT6 basically). Without the 2T7 bonus, BM would be minus 4% pet dps and +4.4% more of their hunter's AP compared to live, and one extra talent point required. I was thinking Blizzard might consider maaking 2 piece bonus(es) something pet oriented, or else they are going to be stuck with Cryptstalker for a while to maintain viability.
I went and tested Silencing Shot's GCD changes on the PTR just now:
Triggering the GCD with other abilities does not trigger a GCD on it and using it does not trigger a GCD either.
You can macro it to any of our Shots just like we used to be able to do with Kill Shot as well - is it possible to get this changed in the Spread Sheet? It could be used as DPS in someway with this change.
I went and tested Silencing Shot's GCD changes on the PTR just now:
Triggering the GCD with other abilities does not trigger a GCD on it and using it does not trigger a GCD either.
You can macro it to any of our Shots just like we used to be able to do with Kill Shot as well - is it possible to get this changed in the Spread Sheet? It could be used as DPS in someway with this change.
If that works out to a DPS gain, they'll likely remove the damage from the shot. Firing silencing shot on cooldown at bosses that cannot be silenced just for 50% weapon damage because it's GCD-unaware is right up there with dropping a frost trap at the feet of a boss that cannot be slowed just to cheese a proc, in the ranks of unintended game mechanics.
[edit] Which is not to say "don't bother looking at it".
Heh, I've started to play around with the new Ulduar gear that was put in - it's not looking good for BM at all. BM's getting about 200 less DPS than Survival out of the best gear configs I could come up with right now.
I've got about a 350 gain for BM, 550 for Survival, and 610 for Marks.
That's with BM still using the T7.5 2 piece bonus too, or else it has an even bigger loss (Survival and Marks do not need to keep the T7.5 2 piece bonus).
Sean could you posts the builds you were using for your testing?
Well, it's a half white damage shot on a 20s cooldown for 302 mana - I don't think that would be any real DPS gain over anything else you could put the talent point in. It's not even remotely comparable to "Trap Dancing". Still, we may as well math it out.
Sean could you posts the builds you were using for your testing?
thx
Yup, I posted them in the Marks thread:
I've been playing with Marks in the Spreadsheet with the latest changes and the Ulduar gear updates and I've been getting some very promising results.
With full best in slot using what we have uploaded to the Spread Sheet so far I've had Marks come right equal to Survival in DPS using this 15/56 Survival spec versus this 15/51/5 Marks spec on 3 minute fights and using the Use Rotation Test results setting (it knocks a bit off Marks/Survs and makes it a bit more accurate/realistic).
The most interesting thing out of it for me is that Marks is getting a larger jump in DPS from going from current full BiS gear to a set of Ulduar gear than Survival does - Marks seems to scale slightly better than Survival does now. Also, with Ulduar gear, the value per point of ArP goes up to the point where it surpasses Crit's value.
Though of note, the "Use Rotation Test results" setting randomizes the number of LnL procs a bit for Surv and sometimes it lets a really high and lucky number of them and it evens about Survival slightly ahead of Marks again. Marks DPS however is always a stable and constant number with it.
The +DPS from gear with the current Spreadsheet for me vs my current pretty much BiS horde gear is:
BM - 354
Marks - 647
Surv - 563 (with Use Rotation Test results turned off so it doesn't do the LnL random fluctuation)
It can be a considerable difference if it has al ow proc chance but low or no internal CD, compared to high proc chance and normal ICD.
In the first case Steady spam is encouraged to a degree, making it a slight advantage to BM (though the 2T7 is a loss compared to it) or MM going for ISS for this bonus. The other way round you just need the token Steadies to get a near perfect uptime anyway.
Since there's no way we can test 4T8 at the moment, I'm making a few assumptions, the biggest of which is that there is no internal cooldown at the moment. From wowhead's datamining I took the proc chance (10%).
I just took the same code the exalted Ashtongue Trinket (which had no cooldown either) uses.
EDIT:
#1: The Glyph of Chimera Shot properly reduces the CD for me by one, not sure what is causing problems with it.
#2: The meta-gem requirements are bugged yes, this will be fixed next version. Thanks for catching it, I made some changes to make it more robust but it broke along the way.
EDIT#2:
Small update with the above fixes:
- Changed JoW to PPM system (15 PPM)
- Added Stormjewels
- Fixed Meta-gem requirements to actually work again (and properly disabled if not achieved)
- Silencing Shot off the GCD
If that works out to a DPS gain, they'll likely remove the damage from the shot. Firing silencing shot on cooldown at bosses that cannot be silenced just for 50% weapon damage because it's GCD-unaware is right up there with dropping a frost trap at the feet of a boss that cannot be slowed just to cheese a proc, in the ranks of unintended game mechanics.
[edit] Which is not to say "don't bother looking at it".
This is true, but not exactly game breaking; its better than a point in ISS, but it wouldnt be overpowered. The the main argument of the pvp aspect of the change is that a 3 second silence on a GCD cast gave you exactly 1.5s to do anything actionable before silence ran out. Removing the 50% damage undoes about half the value of that change for PVP. PVE-wise, it works out to about 70dps, which makes it slightly more than 1% for 1 talent point, which isnt far from Blizzard's stated ideal.
This is true, but not exactly game breaking; its better than a point in ISS, but it wouldnt be overpowered. The the main argument of the pvp aspect of the change is that a 3 second silence on a GCD cast gave you exactly 1.5s to do anything actionable before silence ran out. Removing the 50% damage undoes about half the value of that change for PVP. PVE-wise, it works out to about 70dps, which makes it slightly more than 1% for 1 talent point, which isnt far from Blizzard's stated ideal.
I don't think blizzard's objection will be to its use in DPS, it'll just be to the likely scenario of people just macroing it into every attack - ideally to avoid that they'll put in all the gcd changes, but make it so that if you try to macro it, it'll just fail to fall through to the other attack if Silencing isn't off cooldown, like most /cast /cast macros do (but the GCD-less Kill Shot doesn't, which is why we currently get to macro it to everything).
Well, with it off the GCD in the Spreadsheet I've tried putting it into the rotation - it doesn't seem to be a DPS boost at all, it's even a loss with the default ping setting with what I've tried.
Well, with it off the GCD in the Spreadsheet I've tried putting it into the rotation - it doesn't seem to be a DPS boost at all, it's even a loss with the default ping setting with what I've tried.
Fight duration making you run OOM more often perhaps? I can't think of how else it'd be a dps loss if it's correctly modelling the GCD free behaviour.
Well, with it off the GCD in the Spreadsheet I've tried putting it into the rotation - it doesn't seem to be a DPS boost at all, it's even a loss with the default ping setting with what I've tried.
Strange, loading up the Best MM set and adding Silencing Shot to the rotation I got about a 55 dps increase.
Nope, I set for 3 minutes and it stays at an Infinite mana setting. With default ping set it does take up 0.20 time in the rotation though.
Originally Posted by Shandara
Strange, loading up the Best MM set and adding Silencing Shot to the rotation I got about a 55 dps increase.
What's the order you're putting the shots in? I perhaps placed it in a bad spot.
Alright, sorry for confusing anyone - closed and reloaded the spreadsheet and added it in and it's working fine for me now. My apologies.
I get about a 31 or 37 DPS increase using Silencing Shot over dropping a point down from Imp Steady Shot or Barrage. That is with this 15/51/5 setup - it's not exactly a game breaking use of the ability I'd say. Perhaps not intended though.
Edit: For some reason it's just taking a big chunk out of DPS when I do a Rotation Test with it.
Btw, it appears that you do not have the Mana Spring Totem change in yet.
It is now raid wide and does not stack with Wisdom anymore, they share the same spot. It's 91 base with a +7/12/20% increase to it (same as max Wisdom with 2/2).
Btw, it appears that you do not have the Mana Spring Totem change in yet.
It is now raid wide and does not stack with Wisdom anymore, they share the same spot. It's 91 base with a +7/12/20% increase to it (same as max Wisdom with 2/2).
Right, thanks for catching that.
EDIT: Re-uploaded V86b with this implemented and a fix for Silencing Shot on the rotation test tab.
I'm getting a Run-time Error 1004 when I try to use the "Load Buffs" feature with the V86b.
Download again and try it now. Sorry about the mess, I'm kinda tired and making too many silly mistakes (I forgot to unprotect the cell where Mana Spring talent improvements were stored).
#1: The Glyph of Chimera Shot properly reduces the CD for me by one, not sure what is causing problems with it.
I was looking at cell Calculations!H133 which seems to always be set 10, but it looks like the cooldown is also in cell 150 where it appears to be correct. I assume that's the cell actually getting use. Also, it looks like with what I have the latency set to (0.2) the GCD would come up at 8.5 or 10.2, meaning that the glyph doesn't do anything here without a smart wait or better latency - so that's another reason why I thought the glyph wasn't working. My apologies. Definitely highlights the caveats of this glyph though.
Originally Posted by Florrie
What flavour of hipster racism am i missing today?
Btw, I guess you can scrap the Quiver field and just assume the 15% haste all the time now. It´s not like it was more than a quiver haste on/off switch so far (with all listed quivers/pouches giving 15%) anyway, so it´s just a very minor remark.
FaceShooter - a hunter shot recommendation AddOn
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Just a heads up, the sheet is loading up with a 12/54/5 MM spec, with silencing shot in the rotation, but no points into silencing shot itself, nothing major, just in case people are playing around with talents, need to drop a point into it.
Where could I find an extensive description of WoW mechanics? I guess I could read the spreadsheet macros but reading code is meh..
I have questions like, in what order do buffs stack (e.g. 10% AP comes before or after BoM)? What is considered as weapon damage? List of AP coefficients for different abilities etc.
03/20/09, 4:11 AM
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