I'd hesitate to say they're not accurate, as they still seem to be accurate as to what the INTENTION of ArP is. From what I've read in that thread, ArP is currently broken on the PTR and not as effective as it should be. That would leave the Spreadsheet as listing the value of ArP "correctly".
From my reading of the thread, there are different things - first, there is 0.8 multiplier to ArP buffs (which basically seems to a lack of the promised 1.25x improvement) - but even if that is assumed to be a bug, the way that the multiplicative debuffs and the additive armor buffs combine is described by the formula, and produces a different result.
From my reading of the thread, there are different things - first, there is 0.8 multiplier to ArP buffs (which basically seems to a lack of the promised 1.25x improvement) - but even if that is assumed to be a bug, the way that the multiplicative debuffs and the additive armor buffs combine is described by the formula, and produces a different result.
You're absolutely right, I had skipped over that.
Unfortunately I don't actually know how Shandara's spreadsheet is calculating it compared to how it appears to be calculated. If they are off, that could mean a rather large change in the value of quite a few Ulduar items.
What I did was take Blizzard's post that the effect of ArP was increased by 25% and apply it across the board.
While the formula devised matches the data gained from testing on the PTR, it is in my eyes doubtful that it is really supposed to work like that. Nevertheless I am keeping an eye on that thread, since what we the players find illogical often turns out to be what Blizzard actually implements.
I am referring to the live spreadsheet. Version84 uses 14% coeff in the calculation for Explosive when it should be 16%.
In February shortly after 3.08, it was announced that a hotfix had reduced ExS to 14%. Which is in hindsight, incorrect. The coefficient was reduced to 16%, from presumably 18%. My guess is that the 16% coefficient was meant to go live with 3.08 but somehow didn't make it in.
I dont know if this has been reported or not, however, I have found sort of a bug in both the live realm spreadsheet and the PTR spreadsheet. For both spreadsheets, when you go to use the Blacksmithing only prismatic sockets in the gloves and wrists, it doesnt allow you to also have an enchant. It forces you to choose either an enchant or the prismatic socket for both slots. Since this is not how it actually works in-game, you can have both the prismatic socket and the enchant, I figured I would report this to hopefully get that updated in a future version of the sheet.
Finally, keep up the awesome work with the spreadsheet, I love it.
EDIT: I figured out a way to do it, but it becomes pretty tedious to continuously do it. If you select the prismatic socket for the enchant, then select the gem, then reselect the actual enchant for you item, it will properly display the gem in the extra socket as well as the actual enchant. It would be nice to have a slot reserved there for just the prismatic socket slot.
EDIT #2: PTR Spreadsheet: Just found that when trying to do the above to a wrist with a predefined socket, adding a prismatic socket brings up no selection box for an extra gem. This solution worked in the live realm version of the spreadsheet, so I am not quite sure what happened in the programming of the prismatic sockets between the live and PTR spreadsheets.
After having played with the WWS spreadsheet alot recently, and having used the DPS spreadsheet for a long time, I was wondering if something like this would be possible.
- Add in a section to the settings page that lets us enter our efficency values that we get from the WWS sheet.
- Factor these values into the DPS calcs (the eaisest way I would think would be to just multiply the efficency value by the Spammed DPS value for each shot)
This would give us the option to build models with an essence of our own skill built into it, instead of just having a model based on what you can do in a perfect situation.
As an example of the sort of information i'd like to get from this...
From the WWS sheet, i seem to average about 85% efficiency on my ES. This comes down to my skill/lag/etc and isn't something I can eaisly change (obviously skill is something to work on, but we all have our own skill caps - not eveyone can be perfect).
So from that, what i'd like to be able to do is compare say an SV spec (assuming my less than perfect rotation), to say a BM spec (where I can get a rotation alot closer to perfect). In theory SV (with todays numbers) seems higher, but in reality, this may not be the case (for an individual).
Obviously applying a % to the DPS of each shot wouldn't be 100% accurate (eg. Having say 80% up time on serpent sting would (may) in reality affect LnL procs, and that isn't really something you can model - since it all depends on when serpent sting was up and when it was down) but imo it would help to create a more accurate model for the individual player.
If it ain't broke, don't screw with it. If you already screwed with it, blame someone else.
Shouldn't points in FA only affect hunter dps?
When I increase points in FA the pet dps is also increased, but from what I've read hit % from FA isn't transferred to the pet.
Hit from FA is carried over to pets on the PTR. The latest spreadsheet reflects the current PTR changes.
Ah, that's nice! Must have missed that change. Any place this is documented/confirmed by Blizz? Can't find it in the 3.1 patch notes, but probably one of many hidden changes.
I'm messing around with the PTR version of the spreadsheet and noticed something odd. While adjusting my spec by speccing into rapid recuperation my pet dps increases in the top left hand box. Its a roughly 54dps increase for the first point and nothing for the second point, yet looking on the PTR version of the talent there is nothing there to actually affect pet dps. Is this potentially a bug in the coding?
Rapid recuperation will lower the time you spend in Viper. Spending more time in DragonHawk means your pet will spend longer with an extra 66 base AP (which is then affected by buffs etc), and so do more damage. QED.
I updated from v86a to v86c to play with some SV talent builds. I had thought that the changes to BoW and mana totem might negatively effect dps when dropping TotH and HP. But instead mana regen nearly doubled. I went from gaining ~130 mana/sec to 225 mana/sec while spending 180 mana/sec. I find that quite hard to believe! I had a glance at simulationcraft showing only a 150 mana/sec gain while mana spent was quite the same.
I just took a second look at the sheet and the mana-gain from JoW went from 227mp5 to 837mp5 and when I tried to deselect the debuff (setting it to "no") it stayed in effect.
Rapid recuperation will lower the time you spend in Viper. Spending more time in DragonHawk means your pet will spend longer with an extra 66 base AP (which is then affected by buffs etc), and so do more damage. QED.
However, if this dps increase was due to my not needing to be in AotV, logically it would increase my personal dps as well. However, speccing into rapid recuperation only increases my pet's dps, while hunter dps is left unchanged.
I updated from v86a to v86c to play with some SV talent builds. I had thought that the changes to BoW and mana totem might negatively effect dps when dropping TotH and HP. But instead mana regen nearly doubled. I went from gaining ~130 mana/sec to 225 mana/sec while spending 180 mana/sec. I find that quite hard to believe! I had a glance at simulationcraft showing only a 150 mana/sec gain while mana spent was quite the same.
I just took a second look at the sheet and the mana-gain from JoW went from 227mp5 to 837mp5 and when I tried to deselect the debuff (setting it to "no") it stayed in effect.
I was about to post a similar question. I've been playing around with the v84c to see what the best glyphs, specs & pet were for the next patch with BiS gear. I noticed that Cat > Wolf still at 3.1, Cat doing 1131 dps and Wolf 1117. The glyphs I took were IAotH, Explosive Shot & Kill Shot.
And here now when I went to select the best talent spec possible, I came out with this. Other switching didn't seemed to increase the dps on the spreadsheet at all. If you take a close look on the spec, you'll notice there's only one point in Thrill of the Hunt, our so very important manasaving talent. The shot rotation sheet says that I would never run OOM after 1k shots, not even after 5k shots still. So I tested completely unbuffed, but it still said the same. I wonder whether it's a bug in the spreadsheet, or only one rank in Thrill of the Hunt does the trick? I find the latter hard to believe. Surely two points would normally move up from Resourcefullness to Thrill of the Hunt.
I was about to post a similar question. I've been playing around with the v84c to see what the best glyphs, specs & pet were for the next patch with BiS gear. I noticed that Cat > Wolf still at 3.1, Cat doing 1131 dps and Wolf 1117. The glyphs I took were IAotH, Explosive Shot & Kill Shot.
And here now when I went to select the best talent spec possible, I came out with this. Other switching didn't seemed to increase the dps on the spreadsheet at all. If you take a close look on the spec, you'll notice there's only one point in Thrill of the Hunt, our so very important manasaving talent. The shot rotation sheet says that I would never run OOM after 1k shots, not even after 5k shots still. So I tested completely unbuffed, but it still said the same. I wonder whether it's a bug in the spreadsheet, or only one rank in Thrill of the Hunt does the trick? I find the latter hard to believe. Surely two points would normally move up from Resourcefullness to Thrill of the Hunt.
While the cat does more dps than the wolf, furious howl increases your own dps and ends up being better overall; make sure you're looking at total dps (pet + hunter) and not just the pet. The highest DPS I've come up with is 3/14/54 with Explosive Shot, Kill Shot, and Hawk glyphs.
Not taking thrill of the hunt is interesting, though I'd probably still take it for progression raids to be safe.
I updated from v86a to v86c to play with some SV talent builds. I had thought that the changes to BoW and mana totem might negatively effect dps when dropping TotH and HP. But instead mana regen nearly doubled. I went from gaining ~130 mana/sec to 225 mana/sec while spending 180 mana/sec. I find that quite hard to believe! I had a glance at simulationcraft showing only a 150 mana/sec gain while mana spent was quite the same.
I just took a second look at the sheet and the mana-gain from JoW went from 227mp5 to 837mp5 and when I tried to deselect the debuff (setting it to "no") it stayed in effect.
Yes it appears that spreadsheet is calculating judgement of wisdom numbers from 2% of max mana rather than 2% of base mana. With the default settings of gear and buffs your mana is set at 13765.5. 2% of this is the 275 mana restored each proc shown in the calculations. Altering your mana by changing gear or buffs also changes this number which should be the constant 2% of base mana (100.92). Heres a WWS from the Ptr that was made after the latest spreadsheet showing that it is still 2% of base mana. Changing this proc value to the correct amount should give simmilar mana/per second gain to the simulation craft numbers and show why Thrill of the Hunt is much more important than what currently appears to be the case. (roughly 33.21 mana/sec gain with default spreadsheet values)
While the cat does more dps than the wolf, furious howl increases your own dps and ends up being better overall; make sure you're looking at total dps (pet + hunter) and not just the pet. The highest DPS I've come up with is 3/14/54 with Explosive Shot, Kill Shot, and Hawk glyphs.
Not taking thrill of the hunt is interesting, though I'd probably still take it for progression raids to be safe.
Thank you for pointing out about the pet. I indeed forgot to check the total dps, and it's a serious increasement. That said my next task ingame is to level up a Wolf to lvl80. I also made a small mistake on the talent spec I posted. The one point in Trill of the Hunt (TotH) was actually in Expose Weakness, making it 2/3. So there was no TotH at all. Although this can be quite appealing I'll be on the safe side with 3.1, and spent the points from Improved Stings into Thrill of the Hunt. Improved Stings doesn't do a lot of dps increase and it's better then taking points off of Resourcefulness. After checking the talent spec you posted it gave me some ideas to change a talent here and there. I ended up with this. The dps spreadsheet suggest that taking one point off IaotH and getting Expose Weakness to 2/3 instead, I believe that 1/3 will still provide enough uptime, especially as Ulduar gear will give you more agility and critrating.
Probably with T8 BiS gear Thrill of the Hunt might not be needed anymore, but we'll see.
I am noticing the exact same thing. Judgement of Wisdom does not clear when you clear the buffs and remains in the calculations on the calculations tab. Even manually setting it to no on the buffs tab has no effect.
Also have the same bug on 86 C. I also downloaded a fresh copy, and just hit the clear buffs button. A value still remains in the box, skewing the results.
Edit - Sorry, saw above that you had noticed the problem. Thanks
- Pauldrons of Havoc stats fixed
- JoW now turns off properly when it is disabled on the Buffs tab, also fixed to provide base mana instead of erroneously total mana.
- Fury of the Five Flights now an approximation rather than a fixed figure
- Mixology applied to Elixir of Mighty Agility/Thoughts
- Changed Wrist/Hand slot prismatic sockets to be always selectable.
- Removed Explosive Shot ticks setting
03/30/09, 2:03 PM
Must have missed that change. Any place this is documented/confirmed by Blizz? Can't find it in the 3.1 patch notes, but probably one of many hidden changes.
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