WotLK DPS spreadsheet - Page 85

Sylvand · 01/14/09, 4:41 PM

Originally Posted by Gaj

Is the spreadsheet the best tool for determining upgrades? I know there are a few websites out there that recommend BiS slot items, but im wondering how accurate people are finding the Gear Checker.

I'm using the spreadsheet to plan my upgrade path, was wondering if this is what other people use and if there are any variables (besides spec, etc) that we need to be aware of.

There are several slots with undisputed best in slot items. There are also a couple slots with 2-3 items very close at the top and the best depends on your other gear (primarily your hit rating). However just knowing what items are best in slot doesn't mean you have them, and it doesn't mean those are the items that will drop.

Among the functions of spreadsheet, there are two in particular I would emphasize:

1. Allows you to figure out (within the accuracy of the model) what is the best gear/gem/talent combination among the gear that is in your possession. There isn't a magic button for this but you can try out different things. For example, if you think you have an upgrade but there's no hit on it, does it make sense to equip? Can you mitigate the dps loss by changing talents, gems, enchants, etc.?
2. Allows you to see the relative value of immediate single slot upgrades. Because a lot of DKP systems only work well when you know how much something is worth to you, it's very nice to have something that can answer that question. Not only do you have the list ready, but if you get one upgrade you can update all your lists immediately to help you bid on the next drop.

The main variables I account for are pet dps time and boss buffs/debuffs. The spreadsheet assumes you and the pet both have 100% dps time. However there are times where this is just not the case, e.g. Heigan, Malygos, Sapphiron, etc. Also fights like Loatheb and Thaddius increase your dps while they don't do the same for your pet. For these and other reasons I don't always hold hunter dps and pet dps in a 1:1 tradeoff. Along similar lines you can hold the fight length as another variable, especially if you're trying for some particular goal (3 min patchwerk is a prime example).

SenorPez · 01/15/09, 2:03 AM

I have a question raised by the spreadsheet. Others have mentioned it earlier in the thread, but they didn't get resolution and I'm encountering it as well. As such, I'm wondering if it's either a bug in the spreadsheet, or something I'm not understanding about the Hunter class. Either result is positive to me!

In the latest version of the spreadsheet:

I'm hit capped. Actually, over the (8%) hit cap due to some good drops in tonight's session.
I do not have any points in the Focused Aim talent.
I have a Cat pet setup, running Rake and Claw. No pet "magic" attacks, which may or may not have a different (higher) hit cap. (As an aside, it's my understanding that no concern should be given to the spell hit cap; it's just not smart itemization?)

However, in the spreadsheet Overview tab, Hit is still being rated as being worth 0.250 per point / per item budget. Pet Hit is still being rated as worth 0.135 per point / per item budget.

Manually adjusting Hit in the Gear tab doesn't affect the DPS calculated by the spreadsheet.

Bug? Or something I'm missing with regard to DPS generation?

DanluvsKelly · 01/15/09, 2:22 AM

Has anyone actually come up with a Best-in-Slot list for each spec? I've rest many posts where numbers are thrown out followed by a "assuming best in slot gear", but what exactly are those pieces. It would be nice to see how you have mix 'n matched gear with talents to come up with a "Maximum DPS" for each of the 3 talent trees.

Shandara · 01/15/09, 2:47 AM

Originally Posted by SenorPez

I have a question raised by the spreadsheet. Others have mentioned it earlier in the thread, but they didn't get resolution and I'm encountering it as well. As such, I'm wondering if it's either a bug in the spreadsheet, or something I'm not understanding about the Hunter class. Either result is positive to me!

In the latest version of the spreadsheet:

I'm hit capped. Actually, over the (8%) hit cap due to some good drops in tonight's session.
I do not have any points in the Focused Aim talent.
I have a Cat pet setup, running Rake and Claw. No pet "magic" attacks, which may or may not have a different (higher) hit cap. (As an aside, it's my understanding that no concern should be given to the spell hit cap; it's just not smart itemization?)

However, in the spreadsheet Overview tab, Hit is still being rated as being worth 0.250 per point / per item budget. Pet Hit is still being rated as worth 0.135 per point / per item budget.

Manually adjusting Hit in the Gear tab doesn't affect the DPS calculated by the spreadsheet.

Bug? Or something I'm missing with regard to DPS generation?

The +Hit rating value shown on the Overview tab is calculated as if you had 0 hit (actually it is an average of the value of hit from 0 hit to hit-cap). Even if you are hit-cap we need this value to determine the worth of +hit on the gear planner if you swap in an item with no hit for an item with a lot of hit currently equipped and you would drop below the hit-cap then.

Fierra · 01/15/09, 7:42 AM

Originally Posted by DanluvsKelly

Has anyone actually come up with a Best-in-Slot list for each spec? I've rest many posts where numbers are thrown out followed by a "assuming best in slot gear", but what exactly are those pieces. It would be nice to see how you have mix 'n matched gear with talents to come up with a "Maximum DPS" for each of the 3 talent trees.

Best-In-Slot gear will vary very widely depending on what individual pieces of gear that you have; simply use the spreadsheet, it updates what it believes to be your best gear based on what it sees for your spec, hit, crit etc. There is no hard and fast rule for best spec gear right now; it depends on what you already have.

Selmarix · 01/15/09, 8:53 AM

I tried to use the rotation test numbers for shot frequency (to get some different numbers for explosive shot frequency) but it seems like the dps calculation for the shots on the shot rotation tab still uses the normal frequency (although the rotation test frequency is displayed in the same table).

The normal frequency calculation for Serpent Sting does not include the changes to the glyph.

eko_sha'tar · 01/15/09, 9:24 AM

I don't know if you spotted this one yet.

On version 81e, Overview sheet, Pet DPS Breakdown table:

I get con a cat:

Melee DPS: 1128.73
Special DPS 807.28
KC DPS: 22.84
Claw DPS: 653.44
Total Pet DPS: 2612.29

While in other part of the spreadsheet Pet DPS is 1958.85 (The Sum of the first 3 lines only).

I guess that on the Pet DPS Breakdown, Claw is included in Melee DPS and then you are adding it twice.

Kom · 01/15/09, 9:49 AM

Hi haven't checked this in a while, having a glance at the sheet now few issues (not sure if they've been mentioned or I've got the wrong idea)

- Explosive Shot additional damage was posted by a blue as being 428 now, not 462.
- Curious as to how the spreadsheet handles IAOTH lowering the SS cast time. Seems it doesn't factor this in atm. (maybe I overlooked a averaging option)
- The darkmoon card greatness procs aren't being scaled with LR and Kings I noticed, is this confirmed by anyone yet?

Esoth · 01/15/09, 10:34 AM

+Hit in the gear planner (and just in general) is further complicated by the spreadsheet using the physical 8% hit cap and then the 17% spell hit cap for explosive shot. If you're a survival hunter, hit continues to have value after you are "capped" in this model.

This prompted me to do some testing and start a discussion here, which seems to point to explosive shot only being affected by the 8% physical hit cap (although it can still be partially resisted). It seems that full resists were added in version 70b, but I did not see any mention as to why it was added (keep in mind, that was also back in the beta). Shandara, do you remember the reason this was added? Anything further I can try to test for?

Ravenfire · 01/15/09, 11:21 AM

Originally Posted by Kom

Hi haven't checked this in a while, having a glance at the sheet now few issues (not sure if they've been mentioned or I've got the wrong idea)

- Explosive Shot additional damage was posted by a blue as being 428 now, not 462.
- Curious as to how the spreadsheet handles IAOTH lowering the SS cast time. Seems it doesn't factor this in atm. (maybe I overlooked a averaging option)
- The darkmoon card greatness procs aren't being scaled with LR and Kings I noticed, is this confirmed by anyone yet?

Explosive Shot: I don't think the new damage range (428 and 462 are both averages) for Explosive Shot's base damage has been posted yet.

Regarding IAotH and SS cast time. I suspect this might have something to do with when Shandara made the following change "When determining the value of +haste the CalcAttributes button will now discount the effects of dynamic haste procs (rapid fire, item procs, heroism) to determine the cap"

DC:G procs also don't scale with Combat Experience.

Ebonleaf · 01/15/09, 12:55 PM

Undocumented changes on MMO.

Lock and Load now has a 3/7/10% chance to proc on periodic damage. (Up from 2/4/6%)

Tranquilizing Shot cooldown has been increased from 6 to 8 seconds. Mana cost decreased from 12% of base mana to 8%.

Innersakura · 01/15/09, 4:36 PM

The skinning bonus for Master of Anatomy ranks 5 and 6 are 20 and 32 crit rating respectively on PTR

The crit chance used in the " Go for the Throat" calculation should be the CompositeShotCritRate not Base Crit Chance.

sisonpyhod · 01/15/09, 8:44 PM

Thanks for your DPS Sheet!

I am playing in Kokr Server.

But your DPS Sheet don't include Armory in Kokr server.

Can you include Armory in Kokr server?

Elendril · 01/16/09, 12:31 PM

My inclination is that this is not the case, but I'm curious - does the gear planner consider enchants at all when calculating comparisons between 1h and 2h weapons? The planner indicates that some 2h weapons are significantly better than the 1h combo I have equipped, and I can only assume it's not taking accuracy enchants into account.

Shandara · 01/16/09, 12:43 PM

Originally Posted by Elendril

My inclination is that this is not the case, but I'm curious - does the gear planner consider enchants at all when calculating comparisons between 1h and 2h weapons? The planner indicates that some 2h weapons are significantly better than the 1h combo I have equipped, and I can only assume it's not taking accuracy enchants into account.

It is not considering enchants yet.