WotLK DPS spreadsheet - Page 95

Dch48 · 05/07/09, 6:12 PM

the yellow socket is missing on Deadly Gladiator's Sabatons of Triumph

Shandara · 05/07/09, 7:34 PM

Update:

- Blood Frenzy for pets now 4%
- Changed base stat calcs for strength, intellect and spirit to match agility/stamina
- Hunter's Mark/Expose Weakness now affected by TSA and CotW
- Marked for Death now affects Arcane critical damage
- Removed duplicate 30% modifier from Piercing Shot's Steady Shot calculations
- Removed greatness proc from in-game RAP value shown on the calculations tab
- Tier 8 4-piece bonus now 25% proc chance with 45 sec ICD
- Rotation test LnL proc chance changed to 2/4/6% to match static frequency calculations
- Added Gnomish Lightning Generator trinket
- Fixed socket bonuses on melee weapons
- Meta-gem activation/deactivation by gem colours works again
- Gear Planner should now factor in tier8 2p and 4p bonus
- Swapped Furious Gladiator's Rifle/Shotgun stats

Added the Algalon drops as well as some socket bonuses. Still missing most of the sockets of Armory-mined gear.

KraxisSingular · 05/07/09, 7:58 PM

Originally Posted by beckon

according to the spreadsheet the shoulders i currently have tier 7.5 are better than tier 8.5 from the gear planner tab. Is that a bug or is that suppose to be like that. I do have like 100 hit over the cap, so maybe that is it, but still pretty weird. Any explanation would be nice, thanks.

The Hit and the potential loss of the T7 2-set bonus are the culprits here. The T8 shoulders invest in Hit, while the T7 invest in crit. So when capped for Hit you basically lose all the benefits of the T8 shoulders, and even for Surv and MM the T7 bonus is not to be ignored. It can amount to a rather significant amount of DPS. Unless it is a huge upgrade like the helmet or chest, chances are it is better to hold onto 2-T7 until you have 2-T8, for the upgrade in stats and get the bonus, that might be weaker but should lessen the blow a little.

Kharthus · 05/07/09, 8:07 PM

Shandara,

Found a small bug in the Pawn string. It's not taking Crit into account for any of the gem slots (Red/Yellow/Blue). I have an agi/crit gem for Yellow and it's only grabbing the agi. If you put a full crit gem as the default, you'll get a zero in the pawn string.

elandriel · 05/08/09, 3:32 PM

Shandara,
I was wondering if it's possible to make a chart for the Rotation Test tab of the spreadsheet. A bar graph with time on the horizontal axis, similar to the visual output of the WoWUI - EventHorizon addon. I tried fumbling with Excel's Chart Wizard but until now my success was limited at best.
Thanks.

Iru · 05/08/09, 4:31 PM

What kind of graph are you thinking about? The rotation test tab has 5000 shots by default so you'd almost certainly need some sort of pivot table to get the graph down to a reasonable set of datapoints

elandriel · 05/08/09, 5:17 PM

Iru, what I have in mind is along the lines of the following screenshot, taken from the EventHorizon WoWInterface page:

Eventhough it's from a priest player's point of view, I think of something similar for the hunter spreadsheet: Every ability on a separate horizontal bar, spanning from the time it was activated till it's off the cooldown again. Thus the X-axis of the graph represents the time (multiple 1-D variables graph).

Without being an expert on spreadsheets (quite the oposite actually) I believe there is the option within Excel to select the timeframe which is to be displayed, for example the first 100 secs. Perhaps even a slider to shift through the whole rotation test (not sure if this is possible with Excel alone though).

Iru · 05/08/09, 6:38 PM

I'm familiar with EventHorizon,; I'm just wondering what such a picture would tell you in the context of the spreadsheet. Is that just an easier way of looking at the current wall of shot rotation text so you can more easily see how complicated a given shot priority might be to perform?

That said, if I decided I'd rather play with the spreadsheet that play WoW (or I get stuck on a plane), I will play around with your suggestion. Unless Shadara gets all uber and does something amazing first of course

GwolfGarona · 05/09/09, 1:33 AM

The gem sorter is still bugging out, i have my priority as DPS, Agi, Crit with a SV build.
I've calculated attributes and sorted
I am 10 hit over cap.

It puts Hit gems at the top. 3 of the top 5 gems are Rigid. Am I missing something?

Attribute DPS Per Item Budget
Agility + 1 1.087 1.087
AP + 1 0.377 0.755
Crit + 1 0.675 0.675
Hunter Hit + 1 1.133 1.133
Pet Hit + 1 0.229 0.229
Int + 1 0.644 0.644
ArP Rating+1 0.575 0.575
Haste + 1 0.464 0.464
Stamina+1 0.179 0.268
Mp5 0.663 0.265

It could be that my statistics sheet says that for every additional point of hit over the cap I gain 1.1 DPS but I'm getting lost trying to trace the calculations.

Slarmo · 05/09/09, 2:04 AM

Originally Posted by GwolfGarona

The gem sorter is still bugging out, i have my priority as DPS, Agi, Crit with a SV build.
I've calculated attributes and sorted
I am 10 hit over cap.

It puts Hit gems at the top. 3 of the top 5 gems are Rigid. Am I missing something?

Attribute DPS Per Item Budget
Agility + 1 1.087 1.087
AP + 1 0.377 0.755
Crit + 1 0.675 0.675
Hunter Hit + 1 1.133 1.133
Pet Hit + 1 0.229 0.229
Int + 1 0.644 0.644
ArP Rating+1 0.575 0.575
Haste + 1 0.464 0.464
Stamina+1 0.179 0.268
Mp5 0.663 0.265

It could be that my statistics sheet says that for every additional point of hit over the cap I gain 1.1 DPS but I'm getting lost trying to trace the calculations.

It is due to you not having the box assume 100% hit to yes. Point for point hit is the best dps gained until hit capped. But it will still show that as the best dps gem at the top until you say yes to that box. Btw if you didnt know, that box is on the gear planner page, you have to scroll to the right to see it.

Shandara · 05/09/09, 3:12 AM

Originally Posted by GwolfGarona

The gem sorter is still bugging out, i have my priority as DPS, Agi, Crit with a SV build.
I've calculated attributes and sorted
I am 10 hit over cap.

It puts Hit gems at the top. 3 of the top 5 gems are Rigid. Am I missing something?

Attribute DPS Per Item Budget
Agility + 1 1.087 1.087
AP + 1 0.377 0.755
Crit + 1 0.675 0.675
Hunter Hit + 1 1.133 1.133
Pet Hit + 1 0.229 0.229
Int + 1 0.644 0.644
ArP Rating+1 0.575 0.575
Haste + 1 0.464 0.464
Stamina+1 0.179 0.268
Mp5 0.663 0.265

It could be that my statistics sheet says that for every additional point of hit over the cap I gain 1.1 DPS but I'm getting lost trying to trace the calculations.

For +hit, the value computed is the average dps gained from going from 0 hit to hit-capped. It is the amount of dps hit would be worth if you COULD use the point. The Gear Planner uses it to calculate how much items are worth if you replaced an item with a lot of hit with something without hit (or vice-versa if you were under the hit-cap).

So even if you are hit-capped this value will still be > 0, because the gear planner needs to know how much +hit is worth..

• Varance · 05/09/09, 12:19 PM

Shandara: does the spreadsheet consider Silencing Shot crits? Non-crit/crit values show up as n/a on 88b.

ra1330 · 05/09/09, 6:00 PM

I think I'm noticing a minor bug with regard to target debuffs and worms.

When I compare Target Armor Reduction (Overview tab) with my Wolf and with my Worm, I see the target's effective armor is the same regardless of which pet I have out. I've double-checked the buffs tab, as well -- the only target debuff I have on is Faerie Fire, so there shouldn't be a second source of the Major Armor debuff (my typical 10man team doesn't have either a rogue or a warrior). It looks like the totals section for Target Debuffs isn't including the "from pet" line, at least for Armor: the formula is, basically TotalDebuff = 1-((1 - amount Debuffed by Sunder)*(1-amountDebuffed by various other rows, not including fromPet row)). I believe the major armor calculation should be (1 - max(SunderDebuff, FromPetDebuff))

Shandara · 05/09/09, 6:44 PM

Originally Posted by ra1330

I think I'm noticing a minor bug with regard to target debuffs and worms.

When I compare Target Armor Reduction (Overview tab) with my Wolf and with my Worm, I see the target's effective armor is the same regardless of which pet I have out. I've double-checked the buffs tab, as well -- the only target debuff I have on is Faerie Fire, so there shouldn't be a second source of the Major Armor debuff (my typical 10man team doesn't have either a rogue or a warrior). It looks like the totals section for Target Debuffs isn't including the "from pet" line, at least for Armor: the formula is, basically TotalDebuff = 1-((1 - amount Debuffed by Sunder)*(1-amountDebuffed by various other rows, not including fromPet row)). I believe the major armor calculation should be (1 - max(SunderDebuff, FromPetDebuff))

My changing the pet's debuffs to percentages messed things up. It also isn't adding the pet's debuffs properly yes, as you noticed. I should have this fixed soon. As to Silencing Shot crits, they are considered just not displayed on the Shot Rotation tab. This will be in the next version.

• Varance · 05/10/09, 12:44 AM

Originally Posted by Shandara

My changing the pet's debuffs to percentages messed things up. It also isn't adding the pet's debuffs properly yes, as you noticed. I should have this fixed soon. As to Silencing Shot crits, they are considered just not displayed on the Shot Rotation tab. This will be in the next version.

Good to know, thanks.

Another MM observation: I've found that the Imp Steady Shot calculation does not adjust to latency and the current shot rotation. For example, with 150+ms lag and a typical MM rotation, you're going to end up with Chimera Aimed Arcane Steadyx3, repeat ad nauseam until readiness is up. A rotation like this should have a 38.6% chance to proc ISS, with an average damage bonus of 5.8% and mana reduction of 11.58% on Chimera and a 0% bonus for both on Aimed and Arcane. In this situation, the spreadsheet damage would be slightly lower and mana consumption 3.5% higher than it would be in reality.

Also, I noticed there's no calculation for the BE racial Arcane Torrent. Getting back 6% of your mana every 2 mins via something you can macro to Chimera Shot has a small impact on DPS.

Slappywag · 05/10/09, 9:00 AM

Just curious, isn't [Grim Toll] a lot better with the new armor penetration changes? Surely at least decent enough to be on the top 10 list in Gear Planner? Or am I mistaken?

Cattiebrie · 05/10/09, 9:09 AM

It really depends if you can put all of that +hit to use.

Slappywag · 05/10/09, 9:10 AM

Assuming you can (I'm using it and 2 other hit gems because all of my Ulduar gear has absolutely none D=) does anyone have a vague estimation of where it would be compared to other trinkets?

Whitemane · 05/10/09, 11:03 AM

Originally Posted by Slappywag

Assuming you can (I'm using it and 2 other hit gems because all of my Ulduar gear has absolutely none D=) does anyone have a vague estimation of where it would be compared to other trinkets?

What does the spreadsheet tell you? And what makes you think that we can give you a better answer than the spreadsheet? It's a complex subject matter and the spreadsheet has much more knowledge to base its decision on than we do.

Slappywag · 05/10/09, 11:31 AM

Originally Posted by Whitemane

What does the spreadsheet tell you? And what makes you think that we can give you a better answer than the spreadsheet? It's a complex subject matter and the spreadsheet has much more knowledge to base its decision on than we do.

The spreadsheet doesn't even put it in the top 10, which seems odd because other sites (and people) are telling me it's one of the best with the armor penetration change (at least, probably better than some 5-man trinket).

Which was why I was querying it.

Whitemane · 05/10/09, 11:46 AM

Originally Posted by Slappywag

The spreadsheet doesn't even put it in the top 10, which seems odd because other sites (and people) are telling me it's one of the best with the armor penetration change (at least, probably better than some 5-man trinket).

Which was why I was querying it.

As someone already answered, if you can put the +hit to use it's a good trinket. However if it's really good is a complex question, especially when concerning hit. Hit is a stat you need to maximize and because you don't need that much of it, where you get it from becomes very important and is most likely the single most important decision in your gear layout. Having so much hit from one item is not that good, because it precludes you from using a lot of gear. This then dictates pretty much the rest of your gear layout and may force you into making gear decisions that are not so good. This touches on something I was talking about in this post.

elandriel · 05/10/09, 12:03 PM

Actually, on the Gear Planner tab, if you set "Assume 100% hit" to "No", you will get Grim Toll listed as #5. Same place with Wrathstone. Darkmoon Card: Greatness and Mjonir Runestone being the only ones with more than 20dps delta from it.

• VRoscioli · 05/10/09, 4:28 PM

I'm confused as to what exactly the "Assume 100% hit" option does. My best understanding is that if you are not hit-capped, this option will treat you as hit-capped for determining the value of hit on gear (and that is has no effect if you are actually hit-capped).

If this is accurate (and correct me, please, otherwise), would it be possible to get an opposite option. That is, an option that allows the spreadsheet to count hit towards an item's DPS value even if not hit-capped?

Dch48 · 05/10/09, 4:42 PM

Originally Posted by Slappywag

Just curious, isn't [Grim Toll] a lot better with the new armor penetration changes? Surely at least decent enough to be on the top 10 list in Gear Planner? Or am I mistaken?

I have Grim Toll equipped and in my sheet, it is rated as BiS in the second trinket slot because it is the thing that maximizes my hit. I do not have the assume 100% feature on either.

There is a bug in the second trinket slot however. Only a few of the trinkets will show the delta as a - from the one you have equipped. The rest of them that are sorted below the equipped one will show a delta number without a minus sign that seems to make no sense at all when compared to the delta given at the bottom for the equipped item (some will have a higher number). The first trinket slot works fine. The deltas given in both slots however do not translate over to the gear page when you plug the items in. you get very different changes than the planner suggests. The old system of having both trinkets in the same frame of the planner worked better.

Shandara · 05/10/09, 5:19 PM

Originally Posted by Dch48

I have Grim Toll equipped and in my sheet, it is rated as BiS in the second trinket slot because it is the thing that maximizes my hit. I do not have the assume 100% feature on either.

There is a bug in the second trinket slot however. Only a few of the trinkets will show the delta as a - from the one you have equipped. The rest of them that are sorted below the equipped one will show a delta number without a minus sign that seems to make no sense at all when compared to the delta given at the bottom for the equipped item (some will have a higher number). The first trinket slot works fine. The deltas given in both slots however do not translate over to the gear page when you plug the items in. you get very different changes than the planner suggests. The old system of having both trinkets in the same frame of the planner worked better.

The old system was limited in that it could sort only one way though. The 2nd trinket slot is currently reading the dps value from the wrong column (same as 1st trinket slot). Since it IS being sorted on the 2nd column in the background the values look strange. This will be fixed in the next version.