WotLK DPS spreadsheet - Page 96

Synergy · 01/26/09, 2:13 PM

Originally Posted by Fierra

The spreadsheet comes loaded with Shandara's buff/debuff loadout for her group. Tailor yours to reflect what you actually have. Also, make sure you're actually following through with whatever shot priority/cycle you've put in the spreadsheet.

I know this. I have gone back and customized to the buffs/debuffs normally in our raid and it's still way higher than my DPS is. I guess I just don't understand how people with gear similar to mine are pulling over 1k more DPS than I am. And don't tell me to L2P because I know what I'm doing "rotation/priority system" wise. I just can't understand the huge DPS difference and am asking for suggestions on why the gap is so large.

♦ arison · 01/26/09, 2:24 PM

I need to compare projected shot average damage with what I see in practice fully raid buffed, but I am beginning to believe the spreadsheet falls short for SV (and perhaps MM) estimations because of how it handles IAotH. Basically the haste is averaged out, resulting in constantly being at the haste soft cap (i.e., when steady shot is 1.5s or less). This isn't how it works in practice and can cause a good bit of variation.

Hopefully I will have the chance to verify its values for average damage per shot, ideally completely unbuffed against a test dummy, then checking in the real world. If the expected damage of each shot matches, then it would confirm the rotation estimations are perhaps off. If any particular shot shows a divergence between expected and actual damage, the problem is somewhere else.

For reliable testing, though, you have to unequip proc'ing trinkets etc so values don't get averaged in the spreadsheet and so your experiments don't have variation due to that. And, of course, always test against a dummy no one else is using (lest you pick up their debuffs).

Gorektar · 01/26/09, 3:05 PM

Originally Posted by arison

I need to compare projected shot average damage with what I see in practice fully raid buffed, but I am beginning to believe the spreadsheet falls short for SV (and perhaps MM) estimations because of how it handles IAotH. Basically the haste is averaged out, resulting in constantly being at the haste soft cap (i.e., when steady shot is 1.5s or less). This isn't how it works in practice and can cause a good bit of variation.

Hopefully I will have the chance to verify its values for average damage per shot, ideally completely unbuffed against a test dummy, then checking in the real world. If the expected damage of each shot matches, then it would confirm the rotation estimations are perhaps off. If any particular shot shows a divergence between expected and actual damage, the problem is somewhere else.

For reliable testing, though, you have to unequip proc'ing trinkets etc so values don't get averaged in the spreadsheet and so your experiments don't have variation due to that. And, of course, always test against a dummy no one else is using (lest you pick up their debuffs).

Or you could just turn off averaging in the spreadsheet (it is one of the options)

♦ arison · 01/26/09, 3:31 PM

Yes, but that doesn't really give a more accurate number, either. Proc haste is a very important part of SV and MM rotations if you are under the haste cap. The best way to test the core values coming from the spreadsheet is to eliminate as much randomness as possible and get a solid number of samples.

Lavahon · 01/26/09, 3:54 PM

It would be nice if an additional box were made on the shot rotation and rotation test pages so we could configure LnL behavior, and another box below it that shows where our casts would be in terms of cooldown at the first hypothetical LnL proc. Also consider the fact that you need to put 1 shot after each explosive in the LnL rotation, and one after the second explosive shot before it triggers the normal CD again (perfect opportunity to refresh Serp if it has 3-seconds left). Explosive shot's last tick will fire just before the new explosive shot is applied if you put one shot between each (the shot travel time + latency opens just enough of a gap to get the last tick before the new one is applied.

The current A.I. in the rotation test tab shows that DPS calcs are being made based on waiting until all 3 ticks of ES ( initial + 1 per sec x 2 sec = 3) have fired before casting another. In-game mechanics make it possible to take advantage of all 3 ticks without waiting till the debuff is done before firing another shot. In the spreadsheet, the remaining ticks are overwritten if you set the logic to calculate based on letting only the first post-hit tick to fire before hitting ES again. (this is done by setting "Explosive Shot ticks" to 2).

In the LnL rotation I use in-game, with 160ms latency would go: 0.00 ES is cast, ~0.33 ES hits (tick 1), ~1.33 ES hits (tick 2), ~1.66 MS is cast, ~2.33 ES hits (tick 3), ~2.49 MS hits, 3.16 ES is cast.
In other words, ES > MS > ES allows 3 ticks because the combined GCD of MS and ES is 3-seconds. Travel time opens up the gap to cast without wasting charges, so a rotation like ES > MS > ES > SS > ES is viable (assuming you include the first cooldown-consuming ES).

Unfortunately the "Rotation Test" page A.I. is putting two shots between some explosive shots in LnL procs, so it takes longer to put in the final ES. Thus, some of the DPS from ES in the LnL rotation isn't being optimized.

Adding a tool that would allow hunters to set priority shots for a ES:A:ES:B (where shot A has priority over shot B) would be helpful. We could determine what to use so that when LnL initially procs, we're ready to use a priority-optimized LnL rotation immediately. This would also give hunters who were thinking of making a LnL rotation macro some visual feedback on how they should change their shot rotation outside LnL procs to keep debuffs active.

It also raises the potential for theorycrafting on how to keep high-damage shots like MS and KS available when the internal cooldown on LnL is finished so hunters can optimize burst during those crucial standing-still portions of boss fights. This topic alone is enough to get an addon writer started on a new project ( /wink ).

There were a lot of changes in the most recent patch, and I hope you find the time to sort through em all for v83

Scrith · 01/26/09, 6:07 PM

How is the Gear Planner dealing with possible enchantments on swapped items? I assume that it is just using the current item's enchantment for the possible swapped item, but how can that work for comparing s 2h weapon vs. 2 1-handers (which have much different enchantments available to them)? I am guessing that, for this reason, the numbers comparing the dps of a 2-hander with that of 2 proposed 1-handers (or vice-versa) may not be very accurate?

Maybe there should be a default 1-hander and 2-hander enchantment option (much like the default gems for gem slots)?

Sylvand · 01/26/09, 9:10 PM

Feature requests on v82

1. List somewhere (gear planner? statistics?) the approximate contribution to dps from set bonuses.
2. Add 4 piece cryptstalker to the gear planner calculations. With my current gear, with replenishment set to 50% and aimed shot in my rotation, T7 helm is coming out slightly ahead of Blue Aspect Helm because it makes my 4 piece bonus. So for me this bonus is approximately worth about 25 dps. It's not as significant as the 2 piece bonus, but it can still make or break an upgrade.

LordThing · 01/26/09, 10:55 PM

Not sure if it's been mentioned (or at least I haven't seen it), but when you are looking at the gear planner the Nessingwary 4000 has a value of 0 or reacts as if it has a value of 0 and thereby doesn't autorank itself where it fits in the "wish list".

Thelastdeadmouse · 01/26/09, 11:18 PM

Deadly Gladiator's Band of Victory is mislabeled as Deadly Gladiator's Band of Triumph.

Vitaro · 01/27/09, 12:12 AM

Originally Posted by LordThing

Not sure if it's been mentioned (or at least I haven't seen it), but when you are looking at the gear planner the Nessingwary 4000 has a value of 0 or reacts as if it has a value of 0 and thereby doesn't autorank itself where it fits in the "wish list".

Press the "Ranged Weapons" button at the top of that sheet to correctly update their ranking. This was put in as a separate calculation as it takes a long time to execute.

Shandara: It might be a good idea to mention this explicitly right near the Ranged Weapon box, as to avoid this question pop up every second page.

LordThing · 01/27/09, 8:35 AM

Originally Posted by Vitaro

Press the "Ranged Weapons" button at the top of that sheet to correctly update their ranking. This was put in as a separate calculation as it takes a long time to execute.

Shandara: It might be a good idea to mention this explicitly right near the Ranged Weapon box, as to avoid this question pop up every second page.

I did that and it went through its little number crunching and still puts a value of 0 and a location of 0 in the yellow box at the bottom.

BTW, this is version 81f

Iru · 01/27/09, 10:32 AM

What gear selection options have you chosen? I get that behaviour when I have gear equipt that isn't available in the raid combinations I've selected, e.g. TBC gear without that box checked, 25man gear when I only have 10man selected.

Seoman · 01/27/09, 10:50 AM

@Sylvand

Originally Posted by Sylvand

2. Add 4 piece cryptstalker to the gear planner calculations. With my current gear, with replenishment set to 50% and aimed shot in my rotation, T7 helm is coming out slightly ahead of Blue Aspect Helm because it makes my 4 piece bonus. So for me this bonus is approximately worth about 25 dps. It's not as significant as the 2 piece bonus, but it can still make or break an upgrade.

I guess it depends on what you plan on fighting with the gear, but I have yet to switch into AoV during a fight in a Raid-25. If you find yourself needing to do that, you might want to speak with your fellow raid members about buffing you - and debuffing the bosses - more efficiently to give you better mana regen, keeping your DPS optimal and thus helping out the raid.

To simulate all Dragonhawk all the time, Set cell F40 on the Settings tab to Always On and then reCalcAtributes on the Overview tab to remove Per Item Budget value of Mp5 from the DPS calculations.

shermanc · 01/27/09, 12:29 PM

I've decided to try using the spreadsheet again.

I've loaded my gear from the armory, my talents, my glyphs, and change my pet spec.
I've added my gathering prof mining buff.
I've removed all raid buffs, set it to none.
However, I saw a descrepancy of 2% crit and do not understand why. I'm basing this from what I'm seeing in the armoury.
I notice that my agi, stam, crit rating, haste rating on the spreadsheet matches the armoury.
However, there is an ap difference which i thought to be caused by aspect of the hawk. So i went to Settings and set the custom value to 0. (I'm unsure if there's a SAVE SETTING button that I can use). I don't see any change in my ap.

Anyway, I would like a few suggestions of what may have cause that crit % difference.

I'm not being anal about it, but i thought I can only make accurate judgments in using the spreadsheet when everything falls into place.

Thanks for any help.

LordThing · 01/27/09, 4:10 PM

Originally Posted by Iru

What gear selection options have you chosen? I get that behaviour when I have gear equipt that isn't available in the raid combinations I've selected, e.g. TBC gear without that box checked, 25man gear when I only have 10man selected.

I found my issue. I had de-selected profession required (which I believe is a really poor named item since some of the items are BOE and don't require the profession to use). I had also, in the past, hit that ranged weapon button, but I guess I had never selected both while having the N4000 equip'd to allow it to be ranked properly.

After both were toggled, it was ranked in the proper area I believe it should be.

Thank you