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Old 05/17/09, 5:42 AM   #2451
Shandara
Great Tiger
 
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Night Elf Hunter
 
Azjol-Nerub (EU)
If you put "Assume 100% hit" to yes, the amount of hit needed to cap is completely disregarded. It is assumed you can use all of the +hit on an item. The value of hit is put 0 DPS so it doesn't interfere with comparisons any more.

I note how you are over the hit-cap (285 hit rating), so once you set "Assume 100% hit" to NO, items with a lot of hit lose DPS (since the gear planner now values only the part of their hit over the hit-cap as 0 DPS) compared to items without hit (which can use utilise all their dps stats).

Last edited by Shandara : 05/17/09 at 5:49 AM.


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Old 05/17/09, 2:22 PM   #2452
GwolfGarona
Von Kaiser
 
Night Elf Hunter
 
Garona
The spreadsheet is correct. The other helms are better if you can get the hit somewhere else. The spreadsheet has historically been dodgy about dancing around the hit cap and goes nuts for a single item with alot of hit.

Also it is possible to create situations where you are near cap (especally for MM/SV where pet damage is a lower % of total) and have crit/AP overcompensate for the lost damage from estimated missed shots.

If you have she cash, I'd keep the Assume 100% to Yes and regem everything to and from +hit. In a related note the spreadsheet hates the Titan Forged Rune of Accuracy (+95 hit) the procs from any trinket seem to be worth more even when Assume 100% hit is No and I'm down 2.2% hit [from Black Ice]

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Old 05/17/09, 3:24 PM   #2453
DoktorD
Glass Joe
 
Draenei Hunter
 
Echo Isles
Mirror of Truth vs. Darkmoon Card: Death

New to the forum and appologize if this has been discussed before, but I could not find it in the thread. I'm using the May 12, 2009 version of the (incredible - thank you!) spreadsheet and have found an oddity.

In the gear planner, it shows Mirror of Truth being a 16.22 DPS upgrade over Darkmoon Card: Death with full buffs loaded and 12.10 DPS with no buffs. However, when I equip the Mirror of Truth, projected DPS in overview drops by 14.94 with full buffs and 10.17 with no buffs.

Thoughts?

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Old 05/17/09, 8:05 PM   #2454
ankah
Piston Honda
 
Orc Hunter
 
Eitrigg
Originally Posted by Zer0Cool View Post
Hello guys,

Today I was able to get hit capped without the need of any points in FA. Currently have 285 (8.69%) I replaced T7.5 helm with “Circlet of True Sight” which is BIS if you not hit capped (No Hard Mode) and replaced "mirror of truth" with “Pyrite Infuser”. My problem is whenever I now change from YES to NO in “Assume 100% hit” not all the tabs change for me and the once that do change I’m not sure if they are correct because in the “Helm” tab, the “Circlet of True Sight” is no longer BIS even though it was previous to the changes… I have a duel spec, the only difference is the 3/3 or 0/3 FA and when sorting the gear I do have the 0/3 spec selected.

The tabs that don’t change for me are Hands, Waist, legs, Shoulders, Neck, Back, Feet, Wrist, Second Trinket, Two-Handed Melee & Range Weapons.

Thanks.
Most of the time, when you load "BIS" it will not display everything as tops, but if you substitute one item for the other (most of the time), it will result in a dps loss.

At 8.69% you are over the hit cap (what ever is over the hit cap will not increase your dps), by the way, and it could very be a reason why it does not show certain items at being tops (drop some of that hit rating).

@doktorD: the gear planner is just another part of the spreadsheet to help you make selections, but I would recommend always plugging in the items themselves first, and seeing what the results are. Mirror procs often, but it is based on your crit rating to begin with, while death is on any attacks, regardless of crits or non crits.

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Old 05/17/09, 11:28 PM   #2455
 VRoscioli
Great Tiger
 
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Troll Hunter
 
Ghostlands
Originally Posted by Shandara View Post
If you put "Assume 100% hit" to yes, the amount of hit needed to cap is completely disregarded. It is assumed you can use all of the +hit on an item. The value of hit is put 0 DPS so it doesn't interfere with comparisons any more.
I'm confused by this. If its assumed that you can use all of the +hit, why would the value of hit be set to 0 DPS? Wouldn't that equate to assuming that you can use *none* of the +hit? (Although this is how I assumed this feature worked, so perhaps its just a typo in your post)

And I know I already posited the idea, but just a bump, could we get an "Assume 0% hit" feature, that would behave this way (i.e. would ignore the hit cap and use full value of hit for all hit rating, including rating that would put you over the cap)?

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Old 05/17/09, 11:35 PM   #2456
Rezdan
Don Flamenco
 
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Dwarf Hunter
 
Nagrand
Originally Posted by RobotChicken View Post
<snip>
Also, the rotation tab (as SV) doesn't actually seem to really DO anything. It doesn't matter what order I put my shots in as long as they're all there and Steady Shot is on the bottom. Am I just completely retarded and misunderstand my class and that's how SV works, or is it a bug? There's been some discussion about whether casting SpS and BA over anything will be a DPS increase, but it seems to give me the exact same values no matter if I put them first, in the middle, or last, above SS of course.
To really determine the difference in how different priorities affect your dps, you have to go to the settings and make sure that the Use Rotation Test Results Instead of Frequencies setting is set to Yes. Next you would choose your priority, and go to the Rotations Test tab and hit Test Rotation. You would have to retest and note down the dps difference if you change the priority.

Last edited by Rezdan : 05/17/09 at 11:36 PM. Reason: missing tags

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Old 05/18/09, 12:42 AM   #2457
Whitemane
King Hippo
 
Orc Hunter
 
Tarren Mill (EU)
Originally Posted by Rezdan View Post
To really determine the difference in how different priorities affect your dps, you have to go to the settings and make sure that the Use Rotation Test Results Instead of Frequencies setting is set to Yes. Next you would choose your priority, and go to the Rotations Test tab and hit Test Rotation. You would have to retest and note down the dps difference if you change the priority.
It's a good tool, however for basic use it'd be nice if the spreadsheet did some of the work for you. It feels a bit silly to set the shot rotation if you aren't going to make the spreadsheet also use the shot rotation and the other way around it would make sense that the spreadsheet had some base automatic detection of talents and so forth and made a shot rotation. Sometimes it just feels redundant to pick Chimera Shot as a talent, then go tell the spreadsheet that you would like to use Chimera Shot in your shot rotation.

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Old 05/18/09, 3:38 AM   #2458
Rezdan
Don Flamenco
 
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Dwarf Hunter
 
Nagrand
There is also a setting to automatically rerun the Rotations Test after any change. The functionality is there to automatically do most of the shot rotation testing work, its just a matter of whether or not we turn on the setting.

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Old 05/18/09, 4:31 AM   #2459
Zer0Cool
Glass Joe
 
Troll Hunter
 
Sargeras
Thanks for the response everyone, but I am still a bit confused… What I have noticed now, only the tabs where my gear has “hit” will change, the gear that doesn’t have hit will not change, does that gear “Assume YES to 100% hit”? Curious to why it works this way? If I want to find out what hands have the most hit using the spreadsheet I now need to equip hands with hit and load it to the spreadsheet in order to see it change whan going from yes to no or no to yes in "Assume 100% hit" ???

Also as I mentioned before when I had the t7.5 head, the BIS item was “Circlet of True Sight” (Assuming NO is 100% hit cap), the difference in Delta was about 14.5, once I equiped “Circlet of True Sight”, its now saying that “Conquerors Scourgestalker Headpiece” is BIS, (Assuming NO in 100% hit), funny thing is Scourgestalker Headpiece has no hit what’s so ever… and the dela difference in "T7.5 Head" VS “Circlet of True Sight” is now over 72 Delta!!! (make me think if im better having 3/3 in FA now and puting t7.t back... should I? )

@ankah, I had just re gemed my hit to 263, but the spreadsheet doesnt have the "Rigid Lionseye" gem or any +10 hit gems, so i cant really have an accurate test here. I did manage to test it with 261 hit and 267 hit, but the results were the same the “Circlet of True Sight” is still not BIS.

Last edited by Zer0Cool : 05/18/09 at 5:50 AM.

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Old 05/18/09, 9:46 AM   #2460
Whitemane
King Hippo
 
Orc Hunter
 
Tarren Mill (EU)
Originally Posted by Rezdan View Post
There is also a setting to automatically rerun the Rotations Test after any change. The functionality is there to automatically do most of the shot rotation testing work, its just a matter of whether or not we turn on the setting.
That's convenient but not what I am getting at, what I am trying to say is it would be nice if the shot rotation selector would somehow be tied to talents and a list were kept of available shots and a priority on them such that at all times the shot rotation was kept updated. I'm not asking for a 100% optimal thing here, just something that would fill in the shots properly so you don't have to first select talents then go re-arrange the shot rotation. It can be quite cumbersome at times switching between rotations.

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Old 05/18/09, 10:24 AM   #2461
arlen
Piston Honda
 
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Human Paladin
 
Blackhand
This isn't a bug, more of an annoyance, but when I have 'Hide Downgrades' set to yes it hides my current second ring in the second ring section since its a downgrade from my first ring.

Any way to not have that?

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Old 05/18/09, 10:54 AM   #2462
exho
Glass Joe
 
Orc Hunter
 
Ysondre (EU)
Fury of the Five Flights has always been a few dps higher than Mirror of Truth until the latest version (+7.67 delta for the Mirror currently); what could possibly change that? Was the calculation for FotFF changed?

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Old 05/18/09, 12:15 PM   #2463
greendef
Von Kaiser
 
Tauren Hunter
 
Daggerspine (EU)
For me personally the reason was that Explosive Shot crits don't proc GftT. Once I put a second point in it, crit wasn't overvalued any more and Fury of the Five Flights took the lead once again.

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Old 05/18/09, 1:01 PM   #2464
 RobotChicken
Piston Honda
 
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Orc Rogue
 
Moon Guard
Originally Posted by greendef View Post
For me personally the reason was that Explosive Shot crits don't proc GftT. Once I put a second point in it, crit wasn't overvalued any more and Fury of the Five Flights took the lead once again.
Well, ES will proc GftT in the next patch, so either way I have a feeling Mirror of Truth will be slightly better then anyway.

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Old 05/18/09, 4:52 PM   #2465
Diagano
Glass Joe
 
Night Elf Hunter
 
Draenor (EU)
Hunters Mark improvements influence

Hi,

Been playing with the spreadsheet for the first time, great work btw.
Was wondering about the effect - or no effect - i noticed of hunter mark improvements from talent and glyphs.

-I took out 'Glyphe of the Serpent Sting' (set to none), and indeed saw the DPS drop from 6200 to 6148
-Now i took 'Glyphe of Hunters Mark' instead and it had no effect at all - the Total DPS remained unchaned (6148)
? Is that ok? is there any chance it actually has no DPS contribution?

I tried the same with the 'Improved Hunters Mark' talent on top of that - I took out 1 point from 'Lock and Load' and that further dropped the DPS to 6077. Now adding that 1 point to 'Improved Hunters Mark' had no effect over the DPS.

Just in case i also let the "calcAttributes" run. I didnt find any posts over this so just wanted to ask - Do these really have no effect? that sounds odd.

What am i missing here?

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Old 05/18/09, 5:04 PM   #2466
Justinian
Glass Joe
 
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Draenei Hunter
 
Crushridge
The default debuffs include a glyphed and specced Hunter's Mark, so you'll probably want to disable those if you'd like to see the contribution of the talents points and/or glyph.

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Old 05/18/09, 5:25 PM   #2467
Diagano
Glass Joe
 
Night Elf Hunter
 
Draenor (EU)
Yes, Thanks

Thanks Justinian,

Right on the spot - very basic, but i didnt notice it. Thanks.

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Old 05/19/09, 12:04 AM   #2468
Iroared
Von Kaiser
 
Human Paladin
 
Черный Шрам (EU)
I cannot find "Custom" option for weapons, is there one?

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Old 05/19/09, 12:06 AM   #2469
Rezdan
Don Flamenco
 
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Dwarf Hunter
 
Nagrand
On the Custom Gear tab, there are rows labelled Main Hand, Off Hand, and Ranged. Then just type "Custom" into those slots on the Gear tab if you're having trouble finding it in the dropdown.

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Old 05/19/09, 1:24 AM   #2470
dexx
Glass Joe
 
Human Paladin
 
Khaz'goroth
According to the spreadsheet, my pet (cat) dps should be 1000. However when i run naxx25 and os25, recounts reports my pet dps usually at around 500. I'm cookie cutter MM spec. Why might this be?

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Old 05/19/09, 1:46 AM   #2471
Rezdan
Don Flamenco
 
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Dwarf Hunter
 
Nagrand
There are many possible reasons for this dexx. First and foremost, while your pet is travelling to and from targets its of course not dpsing. Depending on whether or not you're looking at DPS from the whole run or even a single boss fight that has adds, your pet's DPS time will often be interrupted. Also remember that if you've stopped DPS for whatever reason that your pet won't be getting focus procs from GftT which may result in focus starvation. Secondly, your pet may be missing some essential buffs, possibly because it died on trash previous to a bossfight and just hasn't been rebuffed. There's also the third possibility of certain pet skills being turned on/off. Basically, whenever a pet is "summoned" (calling pet or dismounting included) some pet skills may turn on/off. Make sure you check before each fight that the proper pet spells are on autocast (or use a Macro).

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Old 05/19/09, 2:38 AM   #2472
sihyunie
Piston Honda
 
Dwarf Hunter
 
Bonechewer
I tried to simulate Dark Matter (Trinket off Algalon-10) in the spreadsheet.
When I enter all the stats (assuming 45 sec internal cd) and press Sort on Gear Planner tab, it gives me an error and debugging option.
It gives me error on "dps = Worksheets("Trinket").Cells(Cell.row, Cell.column + 37).value"
Can other people confirm this?

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Old 05/19/09, 3:10 AM   #2473
Kargos
Von Kaiser
 
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Troll Hunter
 
Uldum
Custom Trinket	
Proc Type:	On Hit
Cooldown	45
Duration	10
Proc Chance	10.00%
Average time between hits	0.94
Average time between procs	54.36
Static Uptime	18.52%
Uptime	18.40%
Is what I used for the Dark Matter trinket, didn't receive any errors.

Edit: As far as the proc chance, I just used what was already defaulted in the cell. It is possible that it could have a higher/lower proc chance.

Last edited by Kargos : 05/19/09 at 3:12 AM. Reason: Adding proc part.

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Old 05/19/09, 4:04 AM   #2474
Spring
Glass Joe
 
Draenei Shaman
 
Bleeding Hollow
Originally Posted by Whitemane View Post
Has anyone tried to simulate the updated version of the Magnetized Projectile Emitter? I tried inputting it in the custom gear section but it reported #VALUE! or some such.
Also didn't work for me, any ideas?

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Old 05/19/09, 4:56 AM   #2475
Zeel
Von Kaiser
 
Zeel's Avatar
 
Troll Hunter
 
Vek'nilash (EU)
Now that we can choose to pick 100% hit assumption would it be possible to choose 100% mana too?
To be more specific.. Would it be of any use?

The reasoning behind this is that I would like to test out different talentbuilds with a minimal replenishment by talents.
I'd like to compare the difference of using 1 or 2 Viper Stings for mana regen instead of Aspect of the Viper.
I can't seem to model the dps loss of using 8 - 16 seconds Viper instead of Serpent Sting versus x seconds of
Aspect.

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