Why did you pick Improved Stings? It just does not seem as big a DPS increase as 3/5 Imp Tracking.
Assuming 6000 AP for a hunter in full Naxx25 gear (as claimed above), rank 12 serpent sting does 2410 damage over 15 seconds unglyphed, or ~161 DPS. Speccing Imp Stings adds 30% to that, or ~48 dps.
Putting those points in Imp Tracking instead would give the hunter a 3% dps increase on fights where all mobs are of the same type. Assuming a pet does 40% of a BM hunter's total DPS output raidbuffed, that means that the hunter+pet only need to do ~2678 DPS for Imp Tracking to break even, which is reachable at 70 so what I assume is a rather trivial DPS output at 80.
Am I missing something here?
As I said, the 54/17/0 was just a whim. Using 54/14/3 does produce a DPS increase over that build.
Tried to update the first page with known information for specs (player and pet), plus suggested glyphs and macro ideas. Please feel free to suggest any other known information pertaining to the BM spec. I will update the first page with more concrete information for specs, pets, glyphs, etc... once it is determined. I tried to keep the first page clear of any speculation (please correct me if something does not look right) and I ask that any suggestions/comments being made are based on tested results.
Looking for additional, useful macros to list atm.
Regarding AotH vs. AotB, in your tests are you speced into both iAotH & Aspect Mastery while finding these similar dps results? I assume so, but didn't see any direct reference, and the results are a little surprising so I wanted to be sure. Thanks.
Regarding AotH vs. AotB, in your tests are you speced into both iAotH & Aspect Mastery while finding these similar dps results? I assume so, but didn't see any direct reference, and the results are a little surprising so I wanted to be sure. Thanks.
While we have tested at 70, and some at 80, shouldn't we see raidnumbers pop up soon? I mean people are claiming lots of kills around the world. Must be an intrepid Hunter mong them.
Personally I only dinged hours ago, but my results are decidedly even. And that's with underleveled pets (gorilla for solo and cat/devilsaur/wasp for instances), so the results are skewed. Personally I think I will raid in Beast unless it is AoE or very pet unfriendly.
Looking for additional, useful macros to list atm.
From my testing you can now safely remove /Cast !Auto Shot.
I tested on dummies, firing the same number of steady shots per test, then check the ratio of Autoshots to those 50 steady each time and the results came back the same when:
1. no macro, with or without Auto Attack / Auto shot options in interface menu toggled.
2. macro without Auto Shot
3. macro with Auto Shot.
The ratio of Steady to Auto remained the same. The testing method was using recount, then clicking my character name and browsing through the ratio of shots fired.
I have my pet cat autocast it's own abilities. This seems fixed and reliable at present. I use 2 Kill Shots in there because when I use one it tended not to fire Kill Shot. Not sure why. But everything seems to trigger just fine with the above macro.
I've been toying around early 10-man raid specs, and while a lot of advice about certain talents is sound, the reality is that it simply doesn't apply when you are slightly below hit cap, or you don't have enough crit to begin with for proper synergy between talents. Atm I can only dream of 35% crit.
in 25 man raids, i think you should have one hunter with the hunters mark glyph (unglyphed stacks with glyphed, tested on target dummys and fine light xbows)! Probably a bug, because the glyphed overwrites the unglyphed, so you have to put up the glyphed first, but..
Im using a 55/14/2 build at the moment, but was wondering if anyone has any more parses on comparitive builds? Compared to other classes the damage on fights like patch 25 is very strong, over 4k dps and 500 above the next highest.
It seems the stacking of 10% ap, BoM, flasks and trinket procs/uses combined with BW, call of the wild, fire leaves and rapid fire leads to some insane AP numbers in burst, and with the incredible serpent sting glyph we have a lot of very good scaling talents/cooldowns.
* The /cast [target=pettarget, exists] line can be changed to any talent you want to be manually triggered.
It has been noted that adding the /cast !Auto Shot line while un-checking the "Auto Shot/Attack" option in the combat interface menu assists in making sure your auto shot queues properly and begins firing without waiting on the initial Steady Shot. Auto Shot does fire independently and will continue to shoot at the rate of your attack speed until you stop firing (or your target is dead). Applying the line for Kill Shot is preference, but make sure to add it on the top line to prioritize it over Steady Shot when it comes available.
I'd suggest to make a small change here, as follows:
This will prevent an error message spam when Kill Shot is not usable. Also, I think you may need to put /cast !Auto Shot line before the /cast Steady Shot one, to properly open the shooting sequence.
#showtooltip Rapid Fire
/cast Rapid Fire
/cast [target=pettarget, exists] Call of the Wild
In your first macro you are using BW, which triggers the global cooldown, before KC and trinkets which do not. I'd invert the order in which you trigger the skills, else you may need multiple keypresses to have the macro work fully.
My suggestion:
#showtooltip Bestial Wrath
/cast Kill Command
/petautocasttoggle Call of the Wild
/use 13
/use 14
/cast Bestial Wrath
/em is enraged!
As you can see, there is an extra line for /petautocasttoggle, so we can discuss your second macro
Abilities like CotW will not fire if the pet is using its own global cooldown for other skills, in my testing and normal day by day playing. the /cast command didn't want to work properly with CotW, even mouse clicking (furiously I may say) the skill, didn't fire it off quick enough. An EJ poster, Gleithan, suggested the problem was the pet GCD and this brought me to test the above mentioned command and its variants.
Final result: the macro listed above will fire BW, KC and CotW along with an available trinket, all in a single keypress; Note that CotW is toggled in "autocast on" and will trigger, very likely, a split second later (when the pet has an available global cooldown).
A second keypress will toggle CotW autocast off (make sure CotW went off before retapping the hotkey!), but if you use an /em line, like I do, it will show it a second time (yeah, I like those crappy flavour things).
Alternatively, for not aving to press the macro twice you can change the pet command line with:
/petautocaston Call of the Wild
and manually turn it off between pulls (210 seconds cooldown with 3/3 Longevity, should be plenty of time to remember, right? )
One last note: the [target=pettarget, exists] part that many love to put in macros, is not always required and can be removed to save macro space (255 char limit is harsh at times).
Thats really useful Will the petautocaston command turn autocasting on the first press and not change it on subsequent presses? I ask because I like to incorporate rapid fire into these macros too, which necesitates a little spamming waiting for GCDs and I dont want to turn the CotW autocast on and off before its cast.
Thats really useful Will the petautocaston command turn autocasting on the first press and not change it on subsequent presses? I ask because I like to incorporate rapid fire into these macros too, which necesitates a little spamming waiting for GCDs and I dont want to turn the CotW autocast on and off before its cast.
The /petautocaston command will always toggle the auto casting of whatever specified ability to "on", regardless of it's current state. So spamming it won't (or shouldn't, at least) prevent it from firing by turning it off again.
I've been toying around early 10-man raid specs, and while a lot of advice about certain talents is sound, the reality is that it simply doesn't apply when you are slightly below hit cap, or you don't have enough crit to begin with for proper synergy between talents. Atm I can only dream of 35% crit.
With focus of mostly be able to stay in dragonhawk (mana regen) for as long as possible for bosses like Patchwerk.
Comments appreciated
With the low levels of crit found on low-end gear, why would you only go 1/2 beastial discipline? Your pet certainly shouldn't be focus capped from gftt.
You'd also do well to not waste points on 5/5 frenzy. 4/5 was always enough, and with cobra strikes (and decent crit) it is possible to go as low as 3/5 and still maintain near 100% uptime. That would free up at least one point to fill animal handler, with the BD point coming from spirit bond.
With those fixes, you'd have a reasonable 50/21/0 build, although I would personally opt for something with all of the deep BM talents for 5/10-mans. Longevity's increase of TBW uptime does help mana too.
It's called Bloodlust, not Heroism. What kind of pansy name is Heroism, anyway?
<Bad> Dragonmaw US www.damnwesuck.com
12/13 [25] Heroic - Recruiting exceptional players.
Thank you for the comments on the macros. I adjusted the first page to include the line that clears error messages. I listed the macro I actually use, which handles the error messages with only the top line. The GCD that is triggered with BW makes sense also.
The crusade for the perfect spec will be one that will linger for awhile until more consistent parses can be linked ruling out one set of talents over another. Early raiding should (and will) be full of experimentation and adjustments based on stat increases from gear upgrades. My guild unfortunately is clearing 10 man content with the same enthusiasm as late BC Kara badge runs currently and no WWS parses are being recorded. We do not plan on raiding 25 man content until after New Year's with maybe 1-2 runs before X-mas given enough motivated bodies to fill the raid. With that being said, anyone that does have access to current WWS reports from their runs could you please post them along with the spec you used. Also, provide any other information like glyphs used, 10 man raid comp, aspects used, etc... Even if you feel your DPS was low or you under performed, the data is still extremely useful in pin pointing areas of improvement for the entire BM community.
Something that I am wanting to see information on is a 50/21/0 Readiness spec on a fight like Patchwerk. I have stayed away from this spec because the spreadsheet did not show a DPS increase over my current build. 50/14/7 I have just found that there is a much better synergy between player and pet with this build and the DPS gain over the course of a fight is greater than the extra 18 sec BW burst using Readiness.
Also, their seems to be mention of hunters using a Cat or a Devialsaur, but I have not heard much about the Scorpid since WotLK released. The spreadsheet shows a fairly large DPS gain using a Scorpid and without one in my stables above level 75 atm I will not be able to test this for myself anytime soon. Is anyone using a Scorpid currently?
Thats really useful Will the petautocaston command turn autocasting on the first press and not change it on subsequent presses? I ask because I like to incorporate rapid fire into these macros too, which necesitates a little spamming waiting for GCDs and I dont want to turn the CotW autocast on and off before its cast.
/petautocaston will only turn the ability to 'on' status, as vraket said, further presses of the hotkey won't change it, I can confirm this from testings I did when fine tuning my macros.
I do have some questions regarding the beast master bible for level 80 raiding.
Can you post some clarifications on what aspect to use, the pet is clearly a major dps for us and I have not found any viable information on the topic of aspect of the dragonhawk or aspect of the beast.
Also, I am Orc on my raiding hunter, and that gives 5% pet damage, how does that all affect the choice of pet (cat/scorpid/exotic) and aspects?
I guess that the way to go about this is to put it all in the spreadsheet, but I just can not get my head around how that works. A little guide to it would not hurt
I do have some questions regarding the beast master bible for level 80 raiding.
Can you post some clarifications on what aspect to use, the pet is clearly a major dps for us and I have not found any viable information on the topic of aspect of the dragonhawk or aspect of the beast.
Also, I am Orc on my raiding hunter, and that gives 5% pet damage, how does that all affect the choice of pet (cat/scorpid/exotic) and aspects?
I guess that the way to go about this is to put it all in the spreadsheet, but I just can not get my head around how that works. A little guide to it would not hurt
I think this topic is an interesting one ever since it spawned back in post 3.0 level 70 raiding, but also keep in mind that player AP has taken a significant jump from 70 to 80. This added AP is more an advantage to the hunter's DPS than our pets, which is apparent from plugging various scenarios into the spreadsheet and finding that switching to AotBeast yields almost a 110 DPS decreases every time. Even just comparing paprdoll DPS switching in/out of Beast/Dgnhawk shows a DPS decrease. I will admit that I have not personally raided using Beast, so maybe their are conflicting results out there. Next week I will use Beast on one wing in Naxx as a comparison.
The results I am seeing on the spreadsheet (raid buffed) is switching from Hawk to Beast my pet is gaining 140 DPS, but I am losing 270 DPS.
With that being said, anyone that does have access to current WWS reports from their runs could you please post them along with the spec you used. Also, provide any other information like glyphs used, 10 man raid comp, aspects used, etc... Even if you feel your DPS was low or you under performed, the data is still extremely useful in pin pointing areas of improvement for the entire BM community.
Here is a WWS from our 10-man Naxx run last night: Wow Web Stats
I was running a 55 / 16 / 0, with a Devilsaur (I am still in the process of experimenting with different pets). Damage split between me and pet on Patchwerk was about 56% and 44% respectfully.
Glyphs used: Glyph of Steady Shot, Glyph of Serpent Sting, and Glyph of Aspect of the Hawk.
Bear in mind that overall raid dps is low at this point for us because we are just getting started and have a lot to learn; Each fight in there was a first-time experience for me, with the exception of Patchwerk because we tried him 2 nights ago but had a DPS issue. I have been meaning to try out the Scorpid, and Tobin’s WWS post (in the other BM thread I believe) showing his Scorpid’s DPS on Patchwerk encourages me to give it a shot.
At any rate my goal last night was to keep up Serpent Sting, Steady Shot spam, and use my cooldowns as available. I will be using the macros at the front of this thread to ensure better efficiency in my button clicking (i.e. Call of the Wild with Rapid Fire). So thank you for those macros, and for the EJ community in general for great information.
Something that I am wanting to see information on is a 50/21/0 Readiness spec on a fight like Patchwerk. I have stayed away from this spec because the spreadsheet did not show a DPS increase over my current build. 50/14/7 I have just found that there is a much better synergy between player and pet with this build and the DPS gain over the course of a fight is greater than the extra 18 sec BW burst using Readiness.
Also, their seems to be mention of hunters using a Cat or a Devialsaur, but I have not heard much about the Scorpid since WotLK released. The spreadsheet shows a fairly large DPS gain using a Scorpid and without one in my stables above level 75 atm I will not be able to test this for myself anytime soon. Is anyone using a Scorpid currently?
That's a report for our patchwerk fight a few nights ago using a 50/21 build with a cat. Please note that I wasn't quite at hit cap at the time and I was still in a couple of T6 pieces. I should have another report this weekend as we're going back in after the holiday.
I'd also be interested in seeing some reports with a scorpid. I may grab one for this weekend's raid and see how it works out.
There are variations of 52/14/5 I've been looking at, but none emulate what I value. I feel there is value in the 51 point talent (using Devilsaur + extra 4 talents are nice!) Imp Mend Pet, etc etc...great utility and the top DPS build I've found.
I have found I gained a fair amount from placing 1 point into Cobra Strikes over other places to put the "final talent". Build scales really well with buffs (pet especially).
Using the DPS spreadsheet is there a build that is higher than mine in terms of raw theoretical DPS? I haven't tried to place best items in slot into the sheet yet, but I feel that even with that you'll see this build shine.
Tested with my level 76 gear and level 80 preraiding gear (based on a guildmate...I've been slacking during my leveling).
Thoughts? My only problem is maybe mana longevity, but I haven't taken a deep dive on mana numbers to find out if it's an issue (patchwerk would be my testing playground I think).
There are variations of 52/14/5 I've been looking at, but none emulate what I value. I feel there is value in the 51 point talent (using Devilsaur + extra 4 talents are nice!) Imp Mend Pet, etc etc...great utility and the top DPS build I've found.
I have found I gained a fair amount from placing 1 point into Cobra Strikes over other places to put the "final talent". Build scales really well with buffs (pet especially).
Using the DPS spreadsheet is there a build that is higher than mine in terms of raw theoretical DPS? I haven't tried to place best items in slot into the sheet yet, but I feel that even with that you'll see this build shine.
Tested with my level 76 gear and level 80 preraiding gear (based on a guildmate...I've been slacking during my leveling).
Thoughts? My only problem is maybe mana longevity, but I haven't taken a deep dive on mana numbers to find out if it's an issue (patchwerk would be my testing playground I think).
I originally used a 52/14/5 build immediately after turning 80 with some success. The build I used though maxed Cobra Strikes (3/3) and I did not take Beast Mastery simply because a Cat is still proven (tested) being as good for DPS allowing an extra point to be free. 1/2 Invig is not as much of a DPS gain as 3/3 Cobra Strikes, in fact, you would better off taking the points out of Longevity if you feel you need Invigoration in your build. The 4 extra points you gain from Beast Mastery only add to pet survivability and not to DPS.
Consider (once you hit 80) maxing Cobra Strikes, picking up 2/2 GFTT and sliding points into Survival Instincts since your crit rate will be extremely low.
This is Patchwerk from last night. I was still wearing 5 pieces of Sunwell gear and a mix of heroic epics / Naxx 10 epics during that parse. I am quite sure that it will be the dominant spec going forward.
Something that I am wanting to see information on is a 50/21/0 Readiness spec on a fight like Patchwerk. I have stayed away from this spec because the spreadsheet did not show a DPS increase over my current build. 50/14/7 I have just found that there is a much better synergy between player and pet with this build and the DPS gain over the course of a fight is greater than the extra 18 sec BW burst using Readiness.
Also, their seems to be mention of hunters using a Cat or a Devialsaur, but I have not heard much about the Scorpid since WotLK released. The spreadsheet shows a fairly large DPS gain using a Scorpid and without one in my stables above level 75 atm I will not be able to test this for myself anytime soon. Is anyone using a Scorpid currently?
EDIT: Fixed typo
Here's our first week of raids... I've got clears of everything except thaddius (I don't want to talk about it. :P) I'm 50/21/0 with invigoration instead of cobra strikes (although I'll probably pull those 2 points out to max longevity and put one pt in CS in the near future. I was worried about regen but with a pally I seem fine.). i've got a Cat with a typical DPS spec, was wearing a Flask of relentless assault for most of it, hopped between mammoth cutter ammo & the vendor ammo. Glyphs are Steady Shot, Serpent Sting, and Bestial Wrath.
Spider / DK wings: Wow Web Stats (the crazy null's on the end are 4 horsemen. We killed them, but WWS obviously didn't appreciate that.
Plague / Construct wings: Wow Web Stats
More thaddius: Wow Web Stats
We never got thaddius, sadly. Any tips on getting your pet down from the platform, btw? I've been summoning her, getting her buffed, and then dismissing her before the fight, which isn't particularly ideal. On our 10-man kill, she glyched up a time or two, but on our kill got trapped beneath the platform. (sorry no 10-man WWS's. I'll try'n grab some )
This is Patchwerk from last night. I was still wearing 5 pieces of Sunwell gear and a mix of heroic epics / Naxx 10 epics during that parse. I am quite sure that it will be the dominant spec going forward.
I'm going to try this spec out, but my hunch is that 50/21 will outperform on short fights (your Patchwork was remarkably short because of great raid DPS all around) and fights where you have downtown to swap to Viper and regen without losing much DPS time (e.g., Heigan during the dance, Malygos during Vortex, Sapphiron to some extent). On longer fights in mana-limited situations, I've found that Invigoration is a significant gain in non-Viper DPS time. This also applies to even more to 10 mans, where your raid comp might not support all possible mana regen buffs (Wisdom, JoW, Replenishment).
As to whether 50/21 beats 5x/1x/5 + 2 overall, I think that will require more testing and will depend in gear - at higher gear levels, I surmise that the gain from extra BWs is outshined by the overall personal DPS boost from the talents in Survival.
Speaking of mana return, has anyone tested to see whether saving Rapid Fire as a mini-Evocation is a DPS gain in mana-limited situations? I know it was mentioned in another thread, but I don't believe anyone followed up on it.
This is Patchwerk from last night. I was still wearing 5 pieces of Sunwell gear and a mix of heroic epics / Naxx 10 epics during that parse. I am quite sure that it will be the dominant spec going forward.
Color me impressed but you have an extremely inflated crit %. Also, the shorter fight made a fairly huge difference compared to my parse the previous week. Wow Web Stats I'm going to be switching to a 53/15/3 next week so I can avoid the little bit of time I spent in viper and we'll see what kind of finish we have. Also, your scorpid did 400 more dps then my cat.
Scorpid may end up being the pet of choice judging from parses like that.
Edit; It's ironic but Patchwerk may end up being a terrible parse comparison due to the short duration of the fight which obviously favors extra cooldown builds..
Originally Posted by missiletoad
I get enjoyment out of constructing buildings out of my fries and demolishing them with my chicken nugget army as I make monster noises. But you people. You people are FREAKS.
I haven't decided yet to spec readiness or not, but I am trying to figure out how to best use it assuming I have it.
Based on these prospective builds: Readiness vs. Non-Readiness, I have envisioned something like this (any corrections/opinions are appreciated):
(Readiness comes off cooldown 13 seconds before BW on the rotation, so I am thinking that it should be deferred until after the next use of BW, thus a 3m31s readiness rotation. )
It seems that the benefits I am seeing are:
*34.04% Beastial Wrath uptime for Readiness (vs. 28.125% Beastial Wrath uptime without.)
*18.91% Rapid Fire uptime for Readiness spec (vs. 6.66% Rapid Fire uptime without.)
*1 extra kill command every 3m31s.
Whats interesting is that the Readiness perk appears to benefit Rapid Fire alot more than it does Beastial Wrath. This factors in that a readiness build will have 2/2 rapid killing and the non-readiness build will not. Also worth noting is this is done with the readiness build having 3/3 longevity and 1/3 cobra strikes. The % increase would be more significant if it was 1/3 longevity and 3/3 cobra strikes (bear in mind % variance is not the same thing as total uptime).
11/15/08, 4:50 PM
(sorry no 10-man WWS's. I'll try'n grab some 
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