Tonight for 10 man Naxx i plan on trying the 50/21 build and one thing that comes up to me is whether to get 2/2 Spirit bond or just go with 2/2 mend pet, both do the same thing in essence, keep your pet up, but Spirit bond assumes your pet is getting healed, directly or stealing a chain heal or two, whereas imp mend is a guaranteed heal, reduces mana, and a way to get rid of the extra debuffs if any are on your pet.
Is there really an advantage to take Spirit bond?
Neither is a DPS talent, so for maximizing dps, it's just preference which one you pick up, if any. The only advantage to having imp mend over spirit bond is the debuff removal.
The reduced mana cost on mend is insignificant as you should rarely, if ever, need to actually cast the spell. Between Prayer of Mending and Chain heal bounces, your pet should be able to survive all current encounters.
Personally, I favor spirit bond because of the 10% healing increase done to you and your pet. It was a bigger deal in sunwell than it is in naxx, but I find giving the healers that extra bit of help can save you from dying. The self healing every 10 seconds is also mildly helpful, although certainly not the driving reason to pick up the talent.
Spirit Bond has synergy with bloodthirsty (dps pets) and blood of the rhino (tanking pets), which is another thing to consider.
It's called Bloodlust, not Heroism. What kind of pansy name is Heroism, anyway?
<Bad> Dragonmaw US www.damnwesuck.com
12/13 [25] Heroic - Recruiting exceptional players.
With all this talk of 50/21.. when is the right time to use Readiness? Directly after BW or after the 18s duration of BW.
I would think you would want to use Readiness right after so that you can get its cooldown going and have it up 18s earlier but i don't think thats what I've seen people say. If you should use Readiness 18s after using BW, whats the reason for that?
With all this talk of 50/21.. when is the right time to use Readiness? Directly after BW or after the 18s duration of BW.
I would think you would want to use Readiness right after so that you can get its cooldown going and have it up 18s earlier but i don't think thats what I've seen people say. If you should use Readiness 18s after using BW, whats the reason for that?
I don't claim to know all the reasons, but the most obvious would be the loss of a GCD to activate the ability, during the time when each GCD contributes even more to your overall DPS.
Tonight for 10 man Naxx i plan on trying the 50/21 build and one thing that comes up to me is whether to get 2/2 Spirit bond or just go with 2/2 mend pet, both do the same thing in essence, keep your pet up, but Spirit bond assumes your pet is getting healed, directly or stealing a chain heal or two, whereas imp mend is a guaranteed heal, reduces mana, and a way to get rid of the extra debuffs if any are on your pet.
Is there really an advantage to take Spirit bond?
I look at it this way...I don't want to use Mend Pet during a boss encounter whether it is Improved or not simply to cut out an additional action and mana consumption. I have full confidence in my raid healers to cover my pet as needed, because they understand that my pet is a key component to DPS. It is very easy for a pet to be hit be a chain heal being cast on the melee group. Also, Spirit Bond boosts the amount my pet (and myself) is healed for taking some stress off healers or eliminating a chain heal bounce better used on melee. The Imp Mend has an advantage with the dispel piece, but I never really used that function much in the past. Even on Felmyst my pet was dispelled long before I could even begin to cast a Mend.
I mainly use Mend currently to trigger the Glyph (happiness) or a random heal or 2 in sticky situations. I guess it comes down to preference and the confidence in your raid healers.
If you expect that popping readiness instantly allows you an extra BW in that fight, do it.
If not, wait 18 seconds.
edit: on the Mend pet vs spirit bond thing, I took spirit bond because I hardly ever cast mend pet anyway, I'd rather get healed for a bit more.
The tiny heal every 10 seconds is nice when there's a lot of AoE, but not what I picked the talent for.
I don't claim to know all the reasons, but the most obvious would be the loss of a GCD to activate the ability, during the time when each GCD contributes even more to your overall DPS.
BTW lasts for 18s and the GCD is 1.5s. I would assume that it is better to (and I currently do) trigger Readiness after I pop my BTW macro.
I'm not good with the macros but I'm trying to understand them (if anyone has a good site that gives general commands please post it so I can read it). But I'm looking over the macros that are posted and there is no more Acrane shot or the like? What happened to that spell? Is it not in the mix anymore? I'm sorry if this came up before and I missed it.
I'm not good with the macros but I'm trying to understand them (if anyone has a good site that gives general commands please post it so I can read it). But I'm looking over the macros that are posted and there is no more Acrane shot or the like? What happened to that spell? Is it not in the mix anymore? I'm sorry if this came up before and I missed it.
Arcane Shot was never a suggested shot for any rotation in TBC as a BM hunter, so it was never lost. Arcane Shot was used for MM/SV builds using a 1:1.5 rotation. BUT, in WotLK rotations are a thing of the past and are not used as a macro anymore since Auto Shot fires independently. I suggest doing more reading of the current WotLK related threads in this forum to do some major catching up.
If you are spec'ing BM you basically use Arcane Shot on the run, otherwise hammer your Steady Shot button.
Is Rabid now fixed and Autocasting as it should? I still have it Macroed in with my shot macro to go off as soon as it's up. Would it be more beneficial to leave it turned off and incorporate it in with the Kill Command, Trinket, petcasttoggleon Call of the Wild, BW macro?
As it is, I have everything, and I mean EVERYTHING, in one stupid macro. KC, Auto, Steady, Kill Shot, Use 13 and 14, BW and Rabid. This is great and all, but I end up running into times where I end a fight just as BW is coming off cooldown and blow it because it's in my macro. I'm thinking the smarter move is to to keep Auto, Steady and Kill in a standard 'mash this' macro, and keep the cooldowns, trinkets included, on a seperate macro that I pop when it seems appropriate. Rapid Fire is on it's own Cooldown so I think I'll just have to manually use it after hitting my CD macro.
Does this seem to go along with how most of you are doing things? I like the overall ease of having one macro for everything, but I feel like I waste a lot of my CDs when we're running through trash or whatever.
As it is, I have everything, and I mean EVERYTHING, in one stupid macro. KC, Auto, Steady, Kill Shot, Use 13 and 14, BW and Rabid. This is great and all, but I end up running into times where I end a fight just as BW is coming off cooldown and blow it because it's in my macro. I'm thinking the smarter move is to to keep Auto, Steady and Kill in a standard 'mash this' macro, and keep the cooldowns, trinkets included, on a seperate macro that I pop when it seems appropriate. Rapid Fire is on it's own Cooldown so I think I'll just have to manually use it after hitting my CD macro.
Does this seem to go along with how most of you are doing things? I like the overall ease of having one macro for everything, but I feel like I waste a lot of my CDs when we're running through trash or whatever.
Mind posting that macro? I'm interested to see how all that works in only one macro.
Is Rabid now fixed and Autocasting as it should? I still have it Macroed in with my shot macro to go off as soon as it's up. Would it be more beneficial to leave it turned off and incorporate it in with the Kill Command, Trinket, petcasttoggleon Call of the Wild, BW macro?
As it is, I have everything, and I mean EVERYTHING, in one stupid macro. KC, Auto, Steady, Kill Shot, Use 13 and 14, BW and Rabid. This is great and all, but I end up running into times where I end a fight just as BW is coming off cooldown and blow it because it's in my macro. I'm thinking the smarter move is to to keep Auto, Steady and Kill in a standard 'mash this' macro, and keep the cooldowns, trinkets included, on a seperate macro that I pop when it seems appropriate. Rapid Fire is on it's own Cooldown so I think I'll just have to manually use it after hitting my CD macro.
Does this seem to go along with how most of you are doing things? I like the overall ease of having one macro for everything, but I feel like I waste a lot of my CDs when we're running through trash or whatever.
See the first page of this thread. Mattaos has listed a number of macros you are referring to. A few pages in are more posts about these macros you may find helpful.
Is Rabid now fixed and Autocasting as it should? I still have it Macroed in with my shot macro to go off as soon as it's up. Would it be more beneficial to leave it turned off and incorporate it in with the Kill Command, Trinket, petcasttoggleon Call of the Wild, BW macro?
As it is, I have everything, and I mean EVERYTHING, in one stupid macro. KC, Auto, Steady, Kill Shot, Use 13 and 14, BW and Rabid. This is great and all, but I end up running into times where I end a fight just as BW is coming off cooldown and blow it because it's in my macro. I'm thinking the smarter move is to to keep Auto, Steady and Kill in a standard 'mash this' macro, and keep the cooldowns, trinkets included, on a seperate macro that I pop when it seems appropriate. Rapid Fire is on it's own Cooldown so I think I'll just have to manually use it after hitting my CD macro.
Does this seem to go along with how most of you are doing things? I like the overall ease of having one macro for everything, but I feel like I waste a lot of my CDs when we're running through trash or whatever.
Why do you do this? Are you incapable of using more then one finger in rapid succession? You are wasting your CD's constantly with a stupid macro like that. Malygos, Sarth and a host of other mobs have events that you should be waiting for before blowing cool downs.
Originally Posted by missiletoad
I get enjoyment out of constructing buildings out of my fries and demolishing them with my chicken nugget army as I make monster noises. But you people. You people are FREAKS.
Why do you do this? Are you incapable of using more then one finger in rapid succession? You are wasting your CD's constantly with a stupid macro like that. Malygos, Sarth and a host of other mobs have events that you should be waiting for before blowing cool downs.
Laziness
Really that's all it boils down to. It's leftover from when I was leveling and running instances. Obviously I recognize that it's not ideal for raiding, and not the way I used to do things for raiding, but damn did it make leveling easy. That's why I was asking about the other macros, and the timing of pets abilities like Rabid and Call of the Wild within them. I know the OP lists a few different ones, I'm just wondering what people have found to work the best for them, and none seem to include Rabid anymore. Maybe it's for a reason?
There is supposed to be some point when blizz is going to take Readiness off the gcd, but apparently that didnt make it in before live so I dunno how long it is until we see it. I personally use it after BW is down, and I pop my first Rapid Fire CD of the fight before BW as well for maximum spamming time. Switching to AotB is something I'm gonna try out during BW's next raid since it should yield higher dps during BWs.
Saving the RF you get after you use readiness for during AotV time is something I think more people should try. Most fights I'm not running into mana trouble but on things like KT it helps to have the faster mana return. I imagine going into Ulduar we'll see longer and more difficult fights (god I hope they are atleast) so it something that hunters should start getting used to doing for when we can't burn every boss in 3 min or less.
I was using the 50/21 spec right as I hit 80, and was disgusted at the efficiency I was seeing. I tried a 54/17 build Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft and saw my AoDH uptime more than double, as well as my dps go up quite a bit more. Is there anything I am missing, b/c I've tried the 50/21 out in a 10 man raid environment and was still switching to AoV on a more than comfortable basis.
I'm fairly certain that the GCD induced after popping readiness is only 1.0 seconds rather than 1.5. But I'd like to second the comment stating that you should pop it immediately after the BW unless you know for a fact that you will be unable to use it again for the rest of the fight.
One of my favorite things about the 50/21 build is the fact you can keep up rapid fire and bestial wrath for most of the duration of a heroism / bloodlust. It's always very important to have good co-ordination with regards to when the shamans are likely to use it as it's worth saving readiness for this provided it's not too long to wait.
In terms of Spirit Bond Vs Mend Pet. I think it's been accurately covered by most people here but the spirit bond is something that will benefit you in most raid situations whether it's just your pet getting healed by chain heal a little bit more or helping the healers top you off.
To address the mana effeciency of the readiness build, it largely depends on the raid setup too. You mention you had issues in a 10 man raid. Did you have JoW, replenishment and BoW? In a 25 man raid these will almost always be present. These factors do a lot to help slow down the slow burn on mana. I also personally have invigoration in my readiness build too which I may shed once my mana pool grows larger in size (since most mana regeneration is based on total % mana).
It will be very interesting to see what sort of shake up there will be with the next minor content patch since we are expecting exotic pets to be stronger than they are currently, will that turn the tide of hunters switching to readiness?
Finally, I remember seeing someone post that the imp Stings talent nullified the effect of Glyph of Steady Shot, has anyone else noticed this bug and able to confirm it?
The ladies like the bestial wrath, they don't appreciate the rapid fire.
With all this talk of 50/21.. when is the right time to use Readiness? Directly after BW or after the 18s duration of BW.
I would think you would want to use Readiness right after so that you can get its cooldown going and have it up 18s earlier but i don't think thats what I've seen people say. If you should use Readiness 18s after using BW, whats the reason for that?
Finally, I remember seeing someone post that the imp Stings talent nullified the effect of Glyph of Steady Shot, has anyone else noticed this bug and able to confirm it?
Its wrong.
I just tested it out on dummies, having 3/3 imp stings and had an avg steady hit of 1080 without serpent up vs an almost 1200 with serpent up, max crits were also largely different, 2600 vs 2900ish.
I was using the 50/21 spec right as I hit 80, and was disgusted at the efficiency I was seeing. I tried a 54/17 build Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft and saw my AoDH uptime more than double, as well as my dps go up quite a bit more. Is there anything I am missing, b/c I've tried the 50/21 out in a 10 man raid environment and was still switching to AoV on a more than comfortable basis.
Mostly likely your raid composition as Asmolicious said. Pre-SS glyph i could go the entire fight and come out with 1/2 of my mana still full had my raid come equipt with neccessary replenishment buffs. Just a note on the spec you linked - you have 2/2 spirit bond and 1 point in Improved Mend pet. You could take a point out of spirit bond and Mend pet and place those 2 into Animal Handler as it gives your pet expertise now instead of hit. Something like this: Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft
Hi, I'm currently using the 50/21 readiness build (with 3/3 Longevity). I saw many players that are sporting this build have 2 points in rapid killing and I was wondering, would the 2 points serve to provide more DPS in Efficiency (being more mana efficient) instead?
Also, I've been reading about hunters pulling 4-5k + DPS in boss fights like patchwerk but the highest I've ever gotten was 3.5k or so.. I start off fights with:
trinket + rapid fire + frenzy (troll racial) > BW > Readiness > Serpent Sting > SS (till BW falls) > Rapid fire > BW
I made sure my stings are up all the time too. Am I doing something wrong here?
*Sorry if this was mentioned somewhere else. Did a search and sifted through pages upon pages of threads but I couldn't find a post about it.. And the DPS spreadsheet is really intimidating to use..
Hi, I'm currently using the 50/21 readiness build (with 3/3 Longevity). I saw many players that are sporting this build have 2 points in rapid killing and I was wondering, would the 2 points serve to provide more DPS in Efficiency (being more mana efficient) instead?
Also, I've been reading about hunters pulling 4-5k + DPS in boss fights like patchwerk but the highest I've ever gotten was 3.5k or so.. I start off fights with:
trinket + rapid fire + frenzy (troll racial) > BW > Readiness > Serpent Sting > SS (till BW falls) > Rapid fire > BW
I made sure my stings are up all the time too. Am I doing something wrong here?
*Sorry if this was mentioned somewhere else. Did a search and sifted through pages upon pages of threads but I couldn't find a post about it.. And the DPS spreadsheet is really intimidating to use..
Well generally for a readiness build 2 points in Rapid Killing would be a larger DPS gain then 2/5 Efficiency because the Rapid Fire cooldown is 3 minutes along with Readiness which means you can use Rapid Fire then Readiness every 3 minutes instead of having Readiness up and RF still with 2 minutes left.
That being said your not hit capped which means that you need one point in Focused Aim until you can reach it without it as that provides a much bigger DPS gain then 2/2 Rapid Killing uncapped (about ~13DPS roughly). So assuming you take one point out of Focused Aim because it's not needed in there as 1 point with your hit rating is more than sufficient you still have another point to spend. Now because readiness is a 3 minute cooldown chances are your probably going to use it everytime it's up thus resetting the cooldown of Rapid Fire so putting 1 point in Rapid Killing is useless because you can't use it, only with 2 points in it does it become an actual DPS gain in a Readiness build.
So to summarise - yes 2/2 Rapid Killing is a bigger DPS gain over efficiency however thats assuming that you are actually hitcapped so until your actually hitcapped your better off putting that extra point into Efficiency: Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft
As far as your other problems go you need to check things like your raid composition. Upon hitting 80 i threw my level 70 BT/Sunwell gear into the spreadsheet and checked how much DPS i gained from buffs alone - it was about 2.6-2.7k DPS and this is with level 70 gear. Chances are your not getting the right buffs like totems/10%ap/replenishment etc. The issue generally is a guild one - for instance my last guild at 70 stacked their raids in favour of hunters and i topped the charts by a mile everytime, when i joined my current guild which is more stacked in favour of casters with people that i consider a tad under the skill level of my previous guild i generally hover around top 5 but i don't top it - unless our resident enchancement (yes i said enchancement) shaman logs online so i understand why you might be wondering why somethings wrong when really it's not you, it's just your raid makeup.
Really though i recommend atleast trying to use the spreadsheet. It might look intimidating at a glance but it's pretty easy to figure out and i think theres a guide somewhere on how to use it if your unfamiliar with them. Hopefully this helps.
First of all, I'd like to tell that I am a big fan of theorycarfting, and so I really like this forum.
Just to share my first raid expreience in WOLTK as a 50/21 hunter !
First week of raid for my guild
Today was my first raid since WOLTK release. I wear only heroic stuff, and still many blues.
Ok, he was not dead (17% on first and only serious try and then we got a bug: our OT became crazyyy and hitted heroic strike at 65.000 and a shield bash at 185.000 !!! and pulled aggro...) but I don't think that my DPS would have drop so much with kill-shots under 20%, the CD of my 6th BW which was soon ready, my mana whiwh was already regenerated with viper enough to go to the end of the fight and the fact that we did not used heroism yet, it would maybe have increased, who knows ?
Note that my critrate is 33% which is totally normal (and maybe is little bit low), so nothing special or lucky.
My pet sustains 2400 DPS alone. Next week, I'll go there with a scorpid.
I'd really like to able to break 5000 DPS with my crappy stuff
Is was our first Naxx, I did not know this instance at all, I like it.
12/01/08, 3:46 PM
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