As already stated many times, those "misses" are dodges and maybe even some parries. Those can be reduced with new (3.0.3) Animal Handler, which gives 5/10 expertise.


At 28-30% crit rate unbuffed 5/5 KS and 1/2 GftT is enough. Below that value 2/2 GftT might be needed.

I understand that your post was referring to pets to begin with, but the way this is worded it makes it seem as though hunters (ranged physical attacks more specifically) benefit from Expertise, which they don't. Of course if this has changed, let me know so I can edit my post.

I think a good argument can be made for putting 2 points into Animal Handler, considering the 3.0.3 changes. I would take the floater out of Cobra Strikes for one and reduce Frenzy to 3/5 like so: 51/11/0 w/ AH

Keep a few things in mind, Drrakk. From a min/max PoV the lack of GFTT does put your pet a disadvantage when comparing to another hunter of similar skill and gear that did take at least one point in GFTT. They call Claw, Bite and Smack "focus dumps" for a reason and if you let your pet solo attack a test dummy only using 2/2 BD as its source of focus gen there will be periods of delay in when the pets special fires off. The focus dump ability will be using so much of the available focus (when on autocast) and the pet special ability will get caught trying fire off during the pets GCD running the risk of the focus dump triggering again before the special has the chance. GFTT provides a surplus focus for the pet to pull from so regardless of the focus dump firing and using its 25 focus there will still be enough focus leftover for the pet special to trigger without delay. This is even more important for a cat and scorpid that have either a abilities that leave a bleed/poison effect duration. Without consistent application of the pets special in these cases the duration falls off without being refreshed and DPS time is lost.

Longevity (for pets) is only a benefit for pet specials with a duration effect at 1/2 or 3/3. There has been previous math already done that shows that 2/3 Long refreshes the duration in the middle of the last tick vs. 3/3 Long that will refresh at the very beginning of the last tick reducing the amount of time wasted for another application. http://elitistjerks.com/f31/t30710-h...14/#post935673

The reason everyone is exploring level 70 content in relation to the new talents is because it is the only real data we have access to at the moment. A lot of the foundation for level 80 information is going to complete from the things we learn now. A majority of the player bases is not in beta, so level 80 dungeon speculation is pointless (especially more changes on the way). The level 70 instances and boss are still them as far as strategy goes. The encounters are much easier now and not nearly as much of a challenge, but the mechanics of the fights are still worth using as models for some topic discussion for abilities and such since these same mechanics will show up again in future WotLK instances.

Since there are more changes coming as Blizz works to balance the game for WotLK, I am not rushing out to update a ton of information on this thread yet. Pets are slated for a major re-work with the next patch, so current information is somewhat fruitless. I have been trying to just provide infomation that is known and being used at the present to avoid speculation or data-less opinion.

The Glyph of Steady Shot is (at face value) a strong addition to every hunter spec at this point. Steady Shot is still the basis of every hunter specs shot rotation, especially BM. Currently, adding Serpent Sting is not worth the GCD to increase BM's DPS. Once this glyph is available the 10% increase in damage will make Serpent Sting a worthwhile shot in our rotation every 15 sec. Of course, this speaking in terms of raiding. Soloing is whole other story and typically not worth the effort to explore for min/maxing.

I certainly agree that the change made to Animal Handler will be a net gain for pet DPS at 70. I don't think a ton of discussion has been brought up on it yet because it hasn't made into live yet. As Mako stated though, any reshuffling of points to include AH would come from Spirit Bond. It doesn't make mathematical sense to pull points out of Cobra Strikes while having only 3/5 Frenzy since CS is what feeds Frenzy the extra crits to maintain Frenzy up time (and that is still assuming the hunter has enough crit to proc CS consistently).

Something I spent a little time yesterday doing was getting a better understanding for the conversion of Expertise rating vs. Expertise value. I assume the tooltip for the new Animal Handler is referring to "expertise value" and not rating.

This information I pulled from wowwikki.com...
If this formula holds true then for a level 70 mob Animal Handler will provide 2.5% reduction to being dodges/parried. For raiding purposes our main concern is dodges, this would basically cut a bosses chance to dodge attacks by 40%.

Animal Handler grants 10 expertise. (10*3.92)/15.77 = 2.49%

So the next question is how will expertise rating convert to expertise value at level 80?

EDIT: See Lactose's answer below, which makes sense since the talent provides a fixed amount of expertise so the conversion from expertise rating will be the only thing to change.

With 2/2 Animal Handler (3.0.3 version), your pet will have 10 Expertise, regardless of which level it is.

10 Expertise reduces the target's chance to dodge and parry by 2.5%, both at Level 70 and Level 80.

For clarity's sake, I believe it is important to point out that 2/3 longevity is inferior to 1/3 in pet specific scenarios, and is not true for all pets. A common example of this would be a cat with Rake, where 2/3 longevity a DPS loss. This would not be a DPS loss for pets with stacking dots, such as scorpids, or for pets without dots of certain lengths, or for pets without dots at all.

In addition, looking at the change to rake in 3.0.3, the initial application has taken a significant hit, while the dot has been ever so slightly buffed.

To put a bit of napkin math out there, to summmarize the effective of longevity on a cat's rake, assuming rake is applied at every cooldown, we see something like this:

0/3 longevity:
3s, 6s, 9s, 13s, 16s, 19s, 23s, 26s, 29s, 33s, 36s, 39s:
4 applications, 12 bleed ticks in 39 seconds
14.67 base dps (in 3.0.2) or 10.67 base dps (in 3.0.3)

1/3 longevity:
3s, 6s, 9s, 12s, 15s, 18s, 21s, 24s, 27s, 30s, 33s, 36s
4 applications and 12 bleed ticks in 36 seconds
15.89 base dps (in 3.0.2) or 11.56 base dps (in 3.0.3)

2/3 longevity:
3s, 6s, 11s, 14s, 19s, 22s, 27s, 30s or 8 ticks in 30 seconds
4 applications and 8 bleed ticks in 30 seconds
15.87 base dps (in 3.0.2) or 10.53 base dps (in 3.0.3)

3/3 longevity:
3s, 6s, 10s, 13s, 17s, 20s, 24s, 27s
4 applications and 8 bleed ticks in 27 seconds
16.63 base dps (in 3.0.2) or 11.70 base dps (in 3.0.3)

I couldn't resist. A new Beast Mastery thread! After a 6 month haitus, I am probably going to give WoTLK and WoW the ole' College Try yet again. Here's to hoping this thread adds to all the great discussion on Hunters in 3.0. Truly amazes me at all the changes that have happened. It almost feels as though Blizzard finally listened to our years of theorycraft and woes.

Welcome back, Howitzer. Good to hear the hunter community will have one of its class patrons rejoining the ranks.

The verdict is still out on whether Blizz is 'listening" or just responding to the woes of the past how they see fit. Regardless, the changes are always in the name of "balance," so these threads will always be a mainstay.

Note a raid boss has 6.5% dodge (a same level would have 5%) and the removal of some parry is great when you are grinding with your pet, needing even less Mend Pet. Certainly a noticeable buff.

I guess it is definitely worth mentioning since we will be leveling before raiding in WotLK. A same level mob has a 11.5% (?) chance to parry, so the after Animal Handler is factored in the mob will still have a 9% chance to parry. Now, since we only have so many ways to spend our points in the upper tiers and it seems the most logical place to borrow points from to go 2/2 AH is from Spirit Bond and Imp Mend. Also, consider that in many cases we are attacking mobs that are 1-2 levels higher than us increasing that % to parry even higher.

The question would then be... Do we give our pets more survivability by reducing parry chance by 9%+ or by boosting healing by 10% (2/2 SB) and utilizing Imp Mend pet for dispels/mana efficiency. Assuming a hunter is using a Tenacity pet to level, I guess Blood of the Rhino could be an offset for Spirit Bond, but both talents stack for even more pet survivability. And, does a mob (or pack of mobs) live long enough to have more than 1 (maybe 2) chances to parry?

Here are the scenarios for the upper tiers...

Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft - 0/2 Imp Mend, 2/2 Spirit Bond & 2/2 A.Handler
Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft - 2/2 Imp Mend, 2/2 Spirit Bond & 0/2 A.Handler
Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft - 1/2 Imp Mend, 1/2 Spirit Bond & 2/2 A.Handler
Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft - 2/2 imp Mend, 0/2 Spirit Bond & 2/2 A.Handler

I think it is save to say that 2/2 Animal Handler is needed to get any real benefit out of the talent. Using a Tenacity pet with 2/2 Blood of the Rhino combos 1, 3 or 4 would work just fine. If using a Cunning or Ferocity pet to level, combo 2 or 3 would probably be more ideal for overall survivability.

Until the next patch when Rabid is fixed it is the only ability necessary to be included in a macro to ensure it triggers every CD. Claw and Rake can be left on autocast and will trigger consistently all by themselves. The only factor that would cause either Claw or Rake to not trigger consistency is your pet being focus starved, which is remedied by dropping at least 1 point into GFTT.

This subject has been covered many times in the WotLK Talents & Abilities thread and also mentioned on the first page of this thread.

EDIT: Fixed Wording & Consolidated Posts