Beast Mastery Bible 3.0 - Page 33

Mustacheride · 12/02/08, 4:25 PM

Originally Posted by Mattaos

10500 mana pool = 525 mana per Steady
2% reduction will save roughly 11 mana per shot.
Hypothetically, if we shot 100 Steady Shots during an encounter we saved our selves 1100 mana.

Sorry I may have missed something but Mana cost of spells doesn't work like that, its based off base(the mana your class has naked) mana not your total mana. Rank 4 Steady shot is 252 mana @ 80 and untalented.

Evio · 12/02/08, 4:48 PM

Long time reader, first time poster

I've been running this spec for a while now

Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft

And after having seen your various comments, I'm wondering if this spec isnt more interesting dps wise compared to the other ones out there. Right now it's a toss up for me in between putting 2 points in invig or going to get imp stings. The reason for that is that we usually run a ret pal and an sp and I never see my mana go under 80 % on any fight. It would seem to me that imp tracking not affecting your pet is therefore kind of a minimal dps increase compared to imp stings which is constantly used in your basic rotation.

I havent run this through the dps spreadsheet becasue I cant get it to work for me right now but any opinion would be welcome as I find myself trying to find the optimal dps spec right now and the last few points are kind of doing my head in

I would link you my gear but the armory is down again (if it's up for you guys it's stryffe on Twillight's hamer)

Mattaos · 12/02/08, 4:58 PM

Originally Posted by Mustacheride

Sorry I may have missed something but Mana cost of spells doesn't work like that, its based off base(the mana your class has naked) mana not your total mana. Rank 4 Steady shot is 252 mana @ 80 and untalented.

Nope. You didn't miss anything, I skipped right over the fact that even the tooltip states 5% of Base Mana in my haste to type out that post. Given my error in calculating the mana saved from 1/5 Efficiency the fact is even more re-enforced to go in the direction of Imp Stings. Thank you Mustache for emphasizing my point by emphasizing my mistake.

Originally Posted by Evio

Long time reader, first time poster

I've been running this spec for a while now

Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft

And after having seen your various comments, I'm wondering if this spec isnt more interesting dps wise compared to the other ones out there. Right now it's a toss up for me in between putting 2 points in invig or going to get imp stings. The reason for that is that we usually run a ret pal and an sp and I never see my mana go under 80 % on any fight. It would seem to me that imp tracking not affecting your pet is therefore kind of a minimal dps increase compared to imp stings which is constantly used in your basic rotation.

I havent run this through the dps spreadsheet becasue I cant get it to work for me right now but any opinion would be welcome as I find myself trying to find the optimal dps spec right now and the last few points are kind of doing my head in

I would link you my gear but the armory is down again (if it's up for you guys it's stryffe on Twillight's hamer)

A full 5/5 Imp Tracking gives you a static 5% damage increase for all your shot (except Stings). This is not applied to your pet, but, neither is Imp Stings so that point is moot. Imp Stings is in no way a DPS increase over Imp Tracking. You do not gain any DPS advantage taking the 51 point BM talent either, since a Cat and Scorpid both are top DPS performers.

There is an abundance of information outlining the basic DPS talents and builds currently being used thru out the various WotLK related hunter threads. There really is no reason to re-invent the wheel.

EDIT: Additional comment added

Evio · 12/02/08, 6:09 PM

Not trying to reinvent the wheel

Thx for the clearup in any case. I´ll get the cat out and give it a go.

Btw just out of curiosity I went back through the info, I remember a nerf for cats being stated in an incoming patch. Has said nerf already happened or is it still inc

Chanii · 12/02/08, 6:50 PM

Since theres a chance that we merely need 8% hit now instead of 9% (and Pet not profiting from FA) there very little use of FA.
Thus Mattaos, I've took your talent and modified it a bit:
Here

Whats your opinion in it? Not sure if the last point is better spend in 2/2 GftT since I've the feeling that even with 25%< crit the pet is starving on Focus occasionally.

Holas · 12/02/08, 7:22 PM

Hey hunter’s first post by me

I read that with current 25-man buffs pets are speed caped without cobra reflexes at 1.07 so taking this pet talent would be a decrease in dps right.

Also another hunter in my guild mentioned call of the wild not being beneficial due to another buff which won't stack with it due to the change to how raid buff stacking works is this also true or would it still be a dps upgrade?

Tom25_2002uk · 12/02/08, 7:32 PM

Hey guys, my first post on here also, just switched from 54/17/0 to this 50/21 spec.

I have changed the Glyphs i had from Rapid fire, Bestial Wrath and Hawk to Steady Shot, Serpent Sting and Hawk and i'm currently running with a cat. The points in FA are there because im only at 4.5% hit at the moment, these will change to improved stings as time goes by.

How are other hunters using this kind of build finding mana effiency, i did some tests on target dummies and after both TBW's i was mana'd out (10,181mana unbuffed). Is the serpent sting + glyph's bonus enough to warrant using viper a lot more than you usually would? or is invigoration a key talent that i'm missing, i've never tested it before.

Laxxz · 12/02/08, 8:42 PM

Originally Posted by flimflam

I'm using a cat with this build Pet Calculator - Wowhead

Do you use glyph of bestial wrath?

urthwyte · 12/02/08, 10:12 PM

For tonight's Patchwerk I decided to try a readiness/scorpid build with Aspect of the Beast up for the duration of the fight. I maximized everything I could control, Saronite arrows, flask/food. I also switched from Sting/Steady glyphs to Hunter's Mark/Aspect of the Beast, with my third glyph obviously Bestial Wrath. As for variables inherent to the encounter, the instance was beginning to suffer from latency, so numbers might be slightly lower than they should, and my crit rate for both steady and auto ended up being ~10% lower than they should have.

Anyway, here's some actual numbers for you people who want to theorycraft Hawk vs. Beast.

Wow Web Stats

We were forced to give up after only three bosses due to severe latency, so I'm sorry that's all I can offer for now. Next week for Patchwerk I plan to switch glyphs to Sting/Steady to see if there is a noticeable difference either way.

Mattaos · 12/03/08, 12:15 AM

Originally Posted by Chanii

Since theres a chance that we merely need 8% hit now instead of 9% (and Pet not profiting from FA) there very little use of FA.
Thus Mattaos, I've took your talent and modified it a bit:
Here

Whats your opinion in it? Not sure if the last point is better spend in 2/2 GftT since I've the feeling that even with 25%< crit the pet is starving on Focus occasionally.

I would not say Focused Aim is a worthless talent by any stretch. If a hunter does not have the gear to achieve 8% hit via gear then FA is going to be the filler. The lower hit cap merely gives us more options in the Marks tree once hit can be established thru upgrades. Also, I would not recommend solely gearing for hit in spite of crit or ap on an obvious upgrade piece that does not have any hit. If I come across an upgrade item that is sporty a high amount of agility, crit and AP I am swapping out my boots that have hit. Good news is there are plenty of strong pieces from Naxx 10/25 with hit though.

I will make a note on the front page regarding the hit cap discovery.

I would definitely go 2/2 GFTT if your crit chance is under 25%, but keep in mind that depending on your raid make up buffs like LotP will push your crit up to (or above) 30%.

♦ Tobin · 12/03/08, 1:40 AM

Originally Posted by Tom25_2002uk

How are other hunters using this kind of build finding mana effiency, i did some tests on target dummies and after both TBW's i was mana'd out (10,181mana unbuffed). Is the serpent sting + glyph's bonus enough to warrant using viper a lot more than you usually would? or is invigoration a key talent that i'm missing, i've never tested it before.

I have 0 points in mana restoration of efficiency talents and the only fight in Naxx where I have to use viper is Noth when I'm lazy and just spam volley on the spawns. Taking Invigoration or Efficiency right now is a waste of points.

♦ Tobin · 12/03/08, 1:46 AM

Originally Posted by urthwyte

For tonight's Patchwerk I decided to try a readiness/scorpid build with Aspect of the Beast up for the duration of the fight. I maximized everything I could control, Saronite arrows, flask/food. I also switched from Sting/Steady glyphs to Hunter's Mark/Aspect of the Beast, with my third glyph obviously Bestial Wrath. As for variables inherent to the encounter, the instance was beginning to suffer from latency, so numbers might be slightly lower than they should, and my crit rate for both steady and auto ended up being ~10% lower than they should have.

Anyway, here's some actual numbers for you people who want to theorycraft Hawk vs. Beast.

Wow Web Stats

We were forced to give up after only three bosses due to severe latency, so I'm sorry that's all I can offer for now. Next week for Patchwerk I plan to switch glyphs to Sting/Steady to see if there is a noticeable difference either way.

Patchwerk tonight with a 50/21/0 build, but didn't go all out on consumables. I was using Mammoth Cutters, a Flask of Relentless Assault, and the cheap 60 AP food. This was with AotH + Glyphs of BW/Steady/Hawk.

My guess is Beast, aspect and glyph, actually brought your DPS down. I did the same test with the Beast Glyph last week and it was a huge disappointment.

Dropshot · 12/03/08, 1:49 AM

From what ive been seeing scorpids are doing higher dps than cats, is there still something bugged or what?

Tom25_2002uk · 12/03/08, 2:29 AM

Are hunters that use the steady shot/serpent sting glyphs adding a new line to the general steady shot macro that casts serpent sting whenever it can? If so, what this macro look like?

Cilithan · 12/03/08, 3:20 AM

Originally Posted by Dropshot

From what ive been seeing scorpids are doing higher dps than cats, is there still something bugged or what?

Scorpid Sting stacks are still doing heaps of damage. There has been a fix, but it was still more dps after that. There may be an additional nerf ofcourse, it wouldn't surprise me at least. For the moment Im walking with a Scorpid pet.