Beast Mastery Bible 3.0 - Page 48

KraxisSingular · 03/05/09, 9:49 AM

Originally Posted by Silanti

Would adding more hit give spirit beast less of a chance to miss spirit strike? Since it is a spell, do we have to get as high as a ranged casters hit cap wise in order for it not to miss as often as it does?

At the moment that would be correct, but this is being specifically corrected in the patch.
Also, while Spirit Strike might miss now and then, it is far too little DPS overall to be worth gearing to cap. Cap your 8% and stop there.

daragh · 03/25/09, 4:39 AM

With patch 3.1's update of our hit rating transferring over to the spirit strike, we should see improvement in the hit/miss rating of the spell. Judging from the DPS output at the heroic test dummy, run with a devilsaur or cat till the new patch goes live and then further tests at the dummy will need to be performed in order to compare DPS output.

I have stabled the spirit beast till the patch goes live cause as of today for a BM hunter, it's not the pet thats putting out a decent DPS for raids and heroics. afterwards to each his own...

Peldridge · 03/30/09, 6:41 PM

Hokay, taking into account the emphasis on stacking AP versus AGI for BM that I've seen on this thread so far, maximizing your pet's DPS in 3.1 seems to require a talent build something like this:

http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?hunt...4&version=9551 [52/19/0]

With a straight DPS pet build like this: Pet Calculator - Wowhead

I'd much rather use my newly acquired Spirit Beast <3

, but Blizz doesn't seem to agree with the idea that a super-rare and hard to acquire pet should at least be on par with a Devilsaur for best hunter DPS pet. :/ Basically just pretty art and moonfire, huh?

Seeing as the new Wild Hunt talent will contribute to huge pet health, their healing shouldn't be as big of a problem, and speccing Imp. Revive Pet should help make up for the loss of Heart of the Phoenix, yes?

Someone mentioned that their WWS parse for a Patchwerk fight showed something along the lines of 57,000 damage for Serpent Sting ALONE, which would suggest 30% added from the Imp. Serp. Sting talent would be an extra 15,000ish dmg right there.

I'm still a little unsure on 1pt only in Spirit bond though...

Thoughts?

TrevvyTrev · 03/30/09, 6:51 PM

Originally Posted by Peldridge

With a straight DPS pet build like this: Pet Calculator - Wowhead

That's not a straight dps build if you skipped cobra reflexes for great stamina. You need to put 2 points in it if you want to maximize pet dps.

Peldridge · 03/30/09, 7:14 PM

Originally Posted by TrevvyTrev

That's not a straight dps build if you skipped cobra reflexes for great stamina. You need to put 2 points in it if you want to maximize pet dps.

Is cobra strikes still a net DPS increase despite lowered individual attack damage?

TrevvyTrev · 03/30/09, 7:23 PM

Originally Posted by Peldridge

Is cobra strikes still a net DPS increase despite lowered individual attack damage?

Yes, it always has been, even before the pet talent trees were introduced.

I also think it's worthwhile to consider at least one movement speed talent (I pick dash myself) to maximize pet uptime when target switches/recalls are needed. But that's not easily quantified in terms of dps.

Peldridge · 03/30/09, 7:28 PM

Originally Posted by TrevvyTrev

Yes, it always has been, even before the pet talent trees were introduced.

I also think it's worthwhile to consider at least one movement speed talent (I pick dash myself) to maximize pet uptime when target switches/recalls are needed. But that's not easily quantified in terms of dps.

Pet Calculator - Wowhead

so that, along with the Hunter Talents I posted.

heavyartillery · 03/30/09, 8:23 PM

Been reading the Hunter sticky and the Bible, first post, will preface by saying I used the search tool, but as I'm new, it's entirely possible I didn't use it to the full effect. Couldn't find anything here regarding this:

Is there evidence to suggest Aldor is better for a Hunter than Scryers?

That is my main question, but I also wanted to ask, are the discussions herein mostly for level 80 Hunters? I struggle with applying final specs & builds, and all the theorycrafting and knowing which kinds of things I should be focusing on *until* I get there (only 66 as you can tell from my Armory page.)

I saw someone else say and I will echo- I've been more of a casual player over the last couple years but my guild is working toward running more raid content and while I plan to remain BM til the end

I know I can play my class more efficiently and play it smarter. This site (and this thread in particular) has really opened my eyes to the possibilities. Thanks for that guys, and I'll keep readin!

sihyunie · 03/30/09, 10:13 PM

Originally Posted by Peldridge

Hokay, taking into account the emphasis on stacking AP versus AGI for BM that I've seen on this thread so far, maximizing your pet's DPS in 3.1 seems to require a talent build something like this:

http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?hunt...4&version=9551 [52/19/0]

As for BM spec, I'd say something along the lines of this
You want to get animal handler for pet expertise. It's the only way to increase it.
You can move 2 points in Survival Instincts to Mortal Shots once crit chance is high enough, or spend them on Invigoration if you are having mana issues. Both Imp AS and Imp Stings are pretty lackluster talents compared to Mortal Shots and Survival Instincts.

Rosamonde · 03/31/09, 2:03 AM

Originally Posted by heavyartillery

Been reading the Hunter sticky and the Bible, first post, will preface by saying I used the search tool, but as I'm new, it's entirely possible I didn't use it to the full effect. Couldn't find anything here regarding this:

Is there evidence to suggest Aldor is better for a Hunter than Scryers?

That is my main question, but I also wanted to ask, are the discussions herein mostly for level 80 Hunters? I struggle with applying final specs & builds, and all the theorycrafting and knowing which kinds of things I should be focusing on *until* I get there (only 66 as you can tell from my Armory page.)

I saw someone else say and I will echo- I've been more of a casual player over the last couple years but my guild is working toward running more raid content and while I plan to remain BM til the end

I know I can play my class more efficiently and play it smarter. This site (and this thread in particular) has really opened my eyes to the possibilities. Thanks for that guys, and I'll keep readin!

To be honest, at this point I would not even worry about grinding Scryer and Aldor rep. Just gain two more levels and head to Northrend. You don't need the BC shoulder enchants to level, and the Sons of Hodir honored shoulder enchants are the same as the Aldor/Scryer exalted enchants.

And yes, the discussions here are for level 80 raiding hunters, although that isn't to say that you couldn't pick up a few pointers to use now.

Peldridge · 03/31/09, 3:52 AM

Originally Posted by sihyunie

As for BM spec, I'd say something along the lines of this
You want to get animal handler for pet expertise. It's the only way to increase it.
You can move 2 points in Survival Instincts to Mortal Shots once crit chance is high enough, or spend them on Invigoration if you are having mana issues. Both Imp AS and Imp Stings are pretty lackluster talents compared to Mortal Shots and Survival Instincts.

Wait a minute...if a Serpent Sting does upwards of 50,000+ damage to a boss over the course of that entire fight, I'd say that buffing that 30% higher would be a big giant boon to overall damage done though, right?

Also I made a mistake with the build linked and edited the post, there's no points in survival at all, actually. xD

Namoya · 03/31/09, 4:15 AM

Improving an ability which does 50k Damage over a Boss fight is so lackluster if your Auto shots/steady shots do three times as much damage.

It was exactly his point that you have no Points in Survival. You try to boost 2 of the lowest overall damage abilities of a BM Hunter instead of going for straight 5% damage increase for everything (Improved Tracking). Because keep in mind most of BM Hunter damage still comes from Auto Shot, Steady Shot and your pet!

I went with This BM-Hunter Build (I think thats the Build sihyunie wanted to link) on my twink with pretty solid success (despite being undergeared). But since we often had no JoW/Replenishment i am thinking about switching Survival Instincts for Invigoration

Peldridge · 03/31/09, 5:35 AM

Originally Posted by Namoya

Improving an ability which does 50k Damage over a Boss fight is so lackluster if your Auto shots/steady shots do three times as much damage.

It was exactly his point that you have no Points in Survival. You try to boost 2 of the lowest overall damage abilities of a BM Hunter instead of going for straight 5% damage increase for everything (Improved Tracking). Because keep in mind most of BM Hunter damage still comes from Auto Shot, Steady Shot and your pet!

I went with This BM-Hunter Build (I think thats the Build sihyunie wanted to link) on my twink with pretty solid success (despite being undergeared). But since we often had no JoW/Replenishment i am thinking about switching Survival Instincts for Invigoration

hm, neat idea. Ok I'll try it. <_<

Peldridge · 03/31/09, 5:36 AM

also, just how important is that 10 expertise rating for your pets?

Selmarix · 03/31/09, 6:16 AM

Originally Posted by Peldridge

also, just how important is that 10 expertise rating for your pets?

2.5% less dodge and parry for the attacks of your pet. There should be no parrying with your pet attacking from behind so around 2.5% more damage for your pet. Not that great but the alternatives are all no dps increase.

GwolfGarona · 03/31/09, 10:08 AM

with my current gear, 10 expertise rating is worth about 24-28 Pet DPS according to the Spreadsheet v84 depending also on strength of earth uptime.

Also not quantifiable in the spreadsheet is the value of Hawk Eye. Having 2-4 extra yards of wiggle room can be a nice boost especially in a fight like Malygos Phase2 or Heigain.

Juuni · 03/31/09, 10:45 AM

Considering that your shots arent strong as SV or MM spec the value of hitting targets at longer range isnt high enough to justify the use of Hawk Eye in a BM spec for a specific phase on a boss or two.

The tree posted above, 53/11/7 is probably they highest dps built for the 3.1

Majo1213 · 03/31/09, 12:10 PM

Ive been reading this alot lately and I just got my Hunter to 80 yesterday. I had a friend of mine who mainly played a BM Hunter during BC but has kinda left the hunter behind for a different class. He told me that arcane shot would lower my dps so i should just keep serpent sting and spam steady shot. From what I have read I do not believe that is necessarily totally accurate. So basically im asking what the best shot rotation and ratio for Steady Shot Serpent Sting and Arcane Shot

Rosamonde · 03/31/09, 12:22 PM

This is the build that I am probably going with in 3.1: 53/11/7

The spreadsheet shows it as the best DPS (by a slight margin) for my current gear. I have found that as my attack power goes up, Survival Instincts becomes more valuable than either Imp Arcane Shot or Mortal Shots. I am currently using Imp Arcane Shots, as that was the best DPS with the gear I had when I chose the spec. Several upgrades have pushed my AP to ~4000 unbuffed (without AotD), and Survival Instincts has begun to edge out Imp Arcane Shots. Although the difference is very small at ~4000 AP (about 11 DPS), I expect it to increase with Ulduar gear levels.

This is being conservative and assuming that I will not be able to use Mulit-shot in my rotation. When I add Multi-shot to the rotation, the spreadsheet shows differences of only 1-2 DPS whether I put my 2 "extra" points in Imp Arcane Shot, Survival Instincts, or Mortal Shots.

I have found that I do not need more than 3/5 Frenzy or 1/2 Go for the Throat with 3/3 Cobra Strikes and 30% unbuffed crit. I personally prefer 2/2 Spirit Bond over Imp Mend Pet; the dispelling effect of Imp Mend Pet is nice on certain fights, but we have good healers and the steady health boost of Spirit Bond seems more effective overall on more fights.

I am currently using a cat. The 3.1 spreadsheet shows a wolf as the second-best pet after a devilsaur for me by only 50 dps, so I am eagerly awaiting the chance to bring out my favorite pet again! (I am sure I would be burned in effigy by my guild if I brought a second devilsaur to our raids -- they are already unhappy with the one our other BM hunter brings.)

EDIT: I had mistakenly switched Survival Instincts and Mortal Shots in my posted build and comments.

Rosamonde · 03/31/09, 12:47 PM

Originally Posted by Majo1213

Ive been reading this alot lately and I just got my Hunter to 80 yesterday. I had a friend of mine who mainly played a BM Hunter during BC but has kinda left the hunter behind for a different class. He told me that arcane shot would lower my dps so i should just keep serpent sting and spam steady shot. From what I have read I do not believe that is necessarily totally accurate. So basically im asking what the best shot rotation and ratio for Steady Shot Serpent Sting and Arcane Shot

Things have changed a lot since 3.0.9, and although your friend was correct concerning the use of Arcane Shot in the BC, you most definitely want to be using it now. Use Arcane Shot as often as the cooldown is up and keep Serpent Sting on the target; use Steady Shot as filler. You can also add Multi-shot to your rotation if you have good mana regen in your raid, which will add about 50 DPS.

zeroKFE · 04/01/09, 4:22 PM

Originally Posted by Rosamonde

This is the build that I am probably going with in 3.1: 53/11/7

I too have come to the conclusion that a 53/11/7 build will continue to be the highest BM DPS spec in 3.1, but with one notable caveat: Ulduar will have a non-trivial number of mechanical enemies, and when fighting them the five points in Improved Tracking will be wasted.

So while part of me wants to use dual spec to carry around an SV spec for when my raid is low on replenishment, I'll most likely carry a 53/18/0 spec like this to switch to on fights against mechanical enemies. The three points in Improved Arcane Shot may not be great, but assuming you are in a raid with ample replenishment they will probably be the best bang for your talent buck against enemies who are exempt from the Improved Tracking bonus damage.

EDIT: For clarification's sake, I'm not implying that a 53/18/0 should be taken over 53/11/7 as a main spec, only that if you aren't terribly interested in having an SV spec, bringing a 53/18/0 spec to change to against mechanicals may not be a bad idea given how many of them there will be in Ulduar.

Namoya · 04/02/09, 5:40 AM

Originally Posted by zeroKFE

... but with one notable caveat: Ulduar will have a non-trivial number of mechanical enemies, and when fighting them the five points in Improved Tracking will be wasted.

Not Trackable:
Flame Leviathan - Mechanical (doesnt matter you fight in Vehicles)
XT-002 Deconstructor - Mechanical
Mimiron - Mechanical

I dont know:
Yogg-Saron
Algalon the Observer

Trackable:
Razorscale - Drake
Ignis the Furnace Master - Giant
Iron Council - Not 100% sure but i think they will be Humanoid
Kologarn - Giant
Auriaya - Humanoid
Freya - Humanoid
Hodir - Giant
Thorim - Giant
General Vezax - Humanoid (really?)

If i am wrong on something feel free to correct me there isnt much info in the Web regarding Ulduar Boss Races. So because 2(4) fights you want to throw away 5% damage increase? I know i wouldnt, SV as Dual Spec on the other Hand is rather tempting.

Kinetics · 04/02/09, 5:29 PM

Has anyone even put up a post to compare the DPS from Survival Instincts and Mortal shots? I see a lot of builds going 53/11/7 and I really don't see the 7 points in survival being worth it? I'd rather put my 7 points back into the Marks tree. Just a thought.

Rosamonde · 04/02/09, 6:24 PM

As I believe I mentioned, I was using the spreadsheet to compare dps from various talents, using my own current gear, to see which would work best for my current set-up. Survival Instincts was best by a very small margin. You will need to look at your own gear in the spreadsheet to see which is best for you -- as your crit and AP levels change, and depending upon your shot selection, Survival Instincts or Mortal Shots, or even Imp Arcane Shot may rise to the top for you.

comablack · 04/04/09, 7:21 PM

Originally Posted by Namoya

Iron Council - Not 100% sure but i think they will be Humanoid

If i remember correctly from the other night they are humanoid/humanoid/giant.