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Old 10/24/08, 10:43 AM   #61
Qrt
Von Kaiser
 
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Komarr
Orc Hunter
 
No WoW Account (EU)
Change to thunderstomp

I came across this tidbit from the PTR 3.0.3 patch notes as reported on MMO-champion:

Thunderstomp (Gorilla): Will no longer have a physical coefficient instead of a magical one.
The wording seems a bit vague for a non-english speaker but I interpret it as meaning that thunderstomp will be purely magic damage, meaning no armor mitigation. That would make it even better for threat generation.

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Old 10/24/08, 11:06 AM   #62
Masterdragon
Von Kaiser
 
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Orc Hunter
 
Mal'Ganis
Originally Posted by Bluesfear View Post
The pet's AI and autocast skills are really messed up. Sometimes my gorilla will just continue to use focus dump and not use TS at all even with an abundance of focus. I really hope this get fixed in 3.0.3 so we don't have to keep marcoing everything.
Thunderstomp only fires off if there are multiple mobs. If there is only 1 mob, Thunderstome wont fire off at all regardless of focus.

Originally Posted by Qrt
I came across this tidbit from the PTR 3.0.3 patch notes as reported on MMO-champion:



Thunderstomp (Gorilla): Will no longer have a physical coefficient instead of a magical one.

The wording seems a bit vague for a non-english speaker but I interpret it as meaning that thunderstomp will be purely magic damage, meaning no armor mitigation. That would make it even better for threat generation.
Well with a Magicial Coeff, the crits will only be 50% instead of Double Damage. And I suppose its also going to affect the damage of the spell as it wont be based on our AP anymore and instead be based on Spell Power (Why I would not know).

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Old 10/24/08, 11:59 AM   #63
Mattaos
Piston Honda
 
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Dwarf Hunter
 
Bonechewer
Originally Posted by dragonrage View Post
Ok I am runing a BM build currently getting on average of 1300 dps in za/kara. Roughly 750-800 dps (personal) 500-550 (pet cat). This is in a 10 man raid setting. What i wonder is are the exotic pets viable enough (devilsaur) to trump my cat damage wise when trained effectively? Honestly the stomping and shaking drives me batty as im sure it does to a lot of players. As such i have not put points into the beast mastery talent. But if it is a good enough improvement I would consider it. Problem i've been seeing is that a lot of the players that have tamed core hounds, devilsaurs etc... don't bother to milk every ounce of dps out of their pets, just have them along for the "cool" effect. And I don't want to get typecast as the annoying "huntard" with the equally annoying pet.
Just to further save you from the stereotypical label of "huntard." I suggest you hit the http://elitistjerks.com/f31/t28573-h...es_discussion/ thread for some valuable information on this exact topic. I believe we have even touched on this topic some in this thread. Use the 'Search this Thread" tool.

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Old 10/24/08, 12:12 PM   #64
Saltyone
Von Kaiser
 
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Dwarf Hunter
 
Garona
Presently I’m running with 50/11/0 with a Cat to take advantage of the massive DPS they’re doing until 3.0.3. I’m intent on moving to a Devilsaur for raiding at 80, since GFFT will no longer be mutually exclusive with exotic pets at 71, and I’ve seen what they’re capable of at 80 on the Beta.

I’ve always been a raptor man, and pre-3.0.2 they did really decent DPS compared to the traditional Cats, Ravagers, Wind Serpents. Savage Rend, however, is a rather clunky special, with a significantly longer cooldown (42 seconds with 3/3 Longevity) than other pet specials. But I believe in its potential due to the crit-based proc Savagery adding 10% damage done (even larger than Devilsaur’s fully stacked bonus) for 30 seconds, because the greatest thing about Devilsaurs and Raptors is that the self-buff modifies white damage as well, which is the majority of pet DPS done, and scales very nicely with pet attack speed.

To make ideal usage of Savage Rend, it’s very important to guarantee a crit with it.

I’m thinking of a build like this but I really wish I could put more points in Cobra Strikes. Longevity 3/3 is critical to maximize the uptime of the pet crit proc and sacking points in Kindred Spirits works against the effort of keeping Savage Rend’s damage proc up.

Right now you simply rely on the RNG, because pet crit rating is very high (~40%). Another possibility is to take Savage Rend off auto-cast and force it manually only when Cobra Strikes is active. Kill Command is also a mechanism to buff pet crit chance (thanks to Focused Fire), though it’s not ideal to wait the cooldown difference (42 seconds vs. 1 min for KC) and also not guaranteed.

I know that ‘conditionals’ are not allowed in macros, but I’ve seen workarounds. I recall a script that looped through your buff icons to determine if a specific texture was present, and you could use that to cast an ability.

Does anybody have any ideas on how to make the best use of Savage Rend? It seems without a conditional macro, you'd just have to be on top of it and manually cast it only when Cobra Strikes procs.

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Old 10/24/08, 12:19 PM   #65
Lordpaulie
Glass Joe
 
Night Elf Hunter
 
Magtheridon
Is Cheeky's still applicable in trying to find our current best gear set as of the 3.0 patch? I know raid-wide buffs and new pet types have changed, but I was wondering if anyone had put together something to assemble the best possible gear/pet/spec till the actuall expansion hits. Also now that Moonkin dont have Imp FF is there another class/spec that privides our missing hit% now? Sorry if this has been addressed elsewhere.

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Old 10/24/08, 12:56 PM   #66
Stimpy
Glass Joe
 
Night Elf Hunter
 
Chamber of Aspects (EU)
You need to start using the new spreadsheet found here http://elitistjerks.com/f31/t30710-h...s_spreadsheet/

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Old 10/24/08, 1:11 PM   #67
Rapparee
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Draenei Shaman
 
Bloodhoof
Originally Posted by Tashia View Post
Do any of you see any situation where Stampede could be better than Thunderstomp?
In Eye of the storm, i hear it's great fun for elemental shaman to toss opposing players off that center bridge while fighting over the flag. The rhino could possibly allow you to enjoy this feeling as well.

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Old 10/24/08, 2:51 PM   #68
Tithene
Glass Joe
 
Tauren Hunter
 
Shattered Hand
Getting a Gauge.

Hunters,
I have been struggling w/ the changes since 3.0.2 as I work fulltime and then spend eves either raiding or caring for family/cleaning house/other stupid housewife chores. I, thus, haven't had the time I would like to read the entire wotlk thread on these changes. My dps in recent raiding went from a nice 1.8-1.9k pre-patch to 1.3-1.4k while my fellow MM is still up around 1.9-2.1k.

I am requesting some idea of what numbers, pre3.0.3, I *should* be seeing as BM w/ any non-exotic pet, esp. cat. I intend to implement some of the macros mentioned in this new thread [ty btw for creating it, Mattaos!] at our Sunday raid. Please give me a ballpark for right now that I should be hitting using the macros and knowledge gleaned in this thread. I need to get my game back on track, or risk losing a spot in the raids. Thanks ahead of time.

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Old 10/24/08, 3:00 PM   #69
Mattaos
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Dwarf Hunter
 
Bonechewer
Originally Posted by Tithene View Post
Getting a Gauge.

Hunters,
I have been struggling w/ the changes since 3.0.2 as I work fulltime and then spend eves either raiding or caring for family/cleaning house/other stupid housewife chores. I, thus, haven't had the time I would like to read the entire wotlk thread on these changes. My dps in recent raiding went from a nice 1.8-1.9k pre-patch to 1.3-1.4k while my fellow MM is still up around 1.9-2.1k.

I am requesting some idea of what numbers, pre3.0.3, I *should* be seeing as BM w/ any non-exotic pet, esp. cat. I intend to implement some of the macros mentioned in this new thread [ty btw for creating it, Mattaos!] at our Sunday raid. Please give me a ballpark for right now that I should be hitting using the macros and knowledge gleaned in this thread. I need to get my game back on track, or risk losing a spot in the raids. Thanks ahead of time.
There are not any real "cookie cutter" specs or macros for say at this point. Also, on the first page of this thread is a link to the updated WotLK spreadsheet, which will also help you a lot in determining gear config to max DPS. Do keep in mind that currently MM is a DPS machine along with BM, so a few tweaks in the way your appraching BM 3.0 might pull you back in-line with your hunter counterpart.

EDIT: Just a quick glance at your armory and talents... I would find a way to get yourself to hit capped via gear and drop Focused Aim for now to max Careful Aim 3/3. Drop Animal Handler (currently does nothing for BM) and slide those points into Spirit Bond for pet survivability (not a DPS increase). Pets receive 100% transference of our hit rating. Take your 1 point in Invig and max 5/5 Kindred Spirits. And finally, drop Beast Mastery for now and slide that point into 1/2 GFTT.

You were gimping personal damage potential by not taking 3/3 Careful Aim. The other point re-allocations are to focus as much damage potential into your pet. What other ranged weapons do you have immediate access to in your bank? The badge xbow is too fast for the current raid buff mechanics. Under standard raid haste effects your attack speed is dropping well below 1.5 and wasting any additional haste beyond that point. It is a benefit (atleast until the WF nerf hits next patch) to use a slower 3.0 speed weapon.

Last edited by Mattaos : 10/24/08 at 3:13 PM.

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Old 10/24/08, 3:10 PM   #70
Tithene
Glass Joe
 
Tauren Hunter
 
Shattered Hand
Aware of cookie cutter issue. Spec is the 50/11/0 w/ 3/3 cobra strike, since patch have been playing w/ my wolf again b/c I love that darned thing, but brought a 69 Scorpid fresh-tamed to SW this week on our first KJ kill (based on info at EJ) and did see some tiny boost to my dps...not enough. I think the problem is my timing w/ new rotations, using trinkets effectively, and comprehension of what shots are most effective. Have some time off today and will be reading wotlk thread to get a better idea of wth is happening to my beloved class. Sunday raid will be back to the cat. Believe we are hitting BT. I'll grab a WWS and post.

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Old 10/24/08, 3:22 PM   #71
mako
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Blood Elf Hunter
 
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Dragonmaw
Originally Posted by Tithene View Post
Aware of cookie cutter issue. Spec is the 50/11/0 w/ 3/3 cobra strike, since patch have been playing w/ my wolf again b/c I love that darned thing, but brought a 69 Scorpid fresh-tamed to SW this week on our first KJ kill (based on info at EJ) and did see some tiny boost to my dps...not enough. I think the problem is my timing w/ new rotations, using trinkets effectively, and comprehension of what shots are most effective. Have some time off today and will be reading wotlk thread to get a better idea of wth is happening to my beloved class. Sunday raid will be back to the cat. Believe we are hitting BT. I'll grab a WWS and post.
I'm not sure where you get the notion that you need a shot rotation at all. At 70, A BM hunter need only mash steady shot as fast as the GCD allows.

Be sure that your talent points are spent properly. 3/3 Careful Aim with 2/5 Mortal Shots is better than 5/5 Mortal Shots, just as Invigoration should not be taken due to being relatively useless (Primarily because JoW is currently powerful enough to keep a hunter at/near 100% mana by itself). If you're not going 2/2 gftt, make sure to fill out 5/5 in kindred spirits instead of spending points in lesser talents. Otherwise 4/5 should be the minimum at present.

Aside from that the only concerns are maximizing dps-time and stacking cooldowns with bloodlust if possible.

It's called Bloodlust, not Heroism. What kind of pansy name is Heroism, anyway?
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Old 10/24/08, 4:09 PM   #72
flimflam
Von Kaiser
 
Orc Hunter
 
Mug'thol
Originally Posted by Mattaos View Post
The badge xbow is too fast for the current raid buff mechanics. Under standard raid haste effects your attack speed is dropping well below 1.5 and wasting any additional haste beyond that point. It is a benefit (atleast until the WF nerf hits next patch) to use a slower 3.0 speed weapon.
I thought haste only hurt if you had more than enough to bring steady shot cast time down to 1.5s OR is 1.5s the fastest our weapons can shoot? (i thought we could go sub 1s)

That xbow has no haste on it, so why does having it auto shoot as fast as possible hurt? I thought they did away with slow bows being all powerful and tried to work towards favoring dps and stats over speed/weapon range.

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Old 10/24/08, 4:14 PM   #73
Rapparee
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Draenei Shaman
 
Bloodhoof
Tithene, I know this sounds stupid, but did you find out how to assign talent points to your pet?

Skipping that stage can cause you to not see any major difference between pets.
And the bible link at the front, perhaps should have a cookie cutter pet talent layout as well. I'm not saying it's required, but perhaps letting people know what talents to have at 70 without BM is important vs. 80 when they'll have spare points.

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Old 10/24/08, 4:28 PM   #74
Mattaos
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Dwarf Hunter
 
Bonechewer
Originally Posted by flimflam View Post
I thought haste only hurt if you had more than enough to bring steady shot cast time down to 1.5s OR is 1.5s the fastest our weapons can shoot? (i thought we could go sub 1s)

That xbow has no haste on it, so why does having it auto shoot as fast as possible hurt? I thought they did away with slow bows being all powerful and tried to work towards favoring dps and stats over speed/weapon range.
Haste is probably not the best term to use when describing weapon speed. What I meant by that is the xbow is so fast in a BM build that it "acts" like added haste in the effect of forcing attack speeds sub 1.5s while under normal raid haste effects.

The advantage of a 3.0 weapon currently (post 3.0) is the speed of the weapon after talented with Serpent Swiftness and a quiver allows more room for hasted effects (i.e. Heroism, Drums, Rapid Fire, WF, Ret Aura, etc...) to drop our speed down into the 1.5s range without completely surpassing it. The big draw of the Xbow pre-3.0 was the weapon speed and how well it fit into a rotation due to our shot mechanics, but unlinked Auto Shots eliminated the need for shot rotations in the sense we were used to in TBC. Stats are important, but top end damage is a key factor for maxing DPS currently with the amount of haste available to us outside of our talents & weapons. The Xbow does not hit nearly as hard as Bristleblitz, Betrayer Bow or Twins Bow for example.

This thought process is also directly tied to some pretty extensive discussions on the original WotLK thread about Auto Shots not being effected by Mortal Shots anymore. I will not drive into that topic again since it is easy to find in the other thread.

And the bible link at the front, perhaps should have a cookie cutter pet talent layout as well. I'm not saying it's required, but perhaps letting people know what talents to have at 70 without BM is important vs. 80 when they'll have spare points.
I will link a few common pet builds on the first page. Thank you for the suggestion.

EDIT: fixed wording

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Old 10/24/08, 4:46 PM   #75
verata
Glass Joe
 
Night Elf Hunter
 
Arygos
Trinkets in macros

You don't have to put

/use Trinket of Awesomeness
in a macro to use them, unless you really want to. You can keep your character count down by using

/use 13
/use 14
which will use whatever trinkets are in your first and second trinket slots, respectively.

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