Beast Mastery Bible 3.0 - Page 52

Rokh · 12/20/08, 10:19 AM

Just for comparison, 6022dps in 2:55 kill w/ 2 Call of the Wild, Aspect of the Hawk and no speed pot.

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esoxlucius · 12/20/08, 2:09 PM

i used to follow this thread intensively, but i kinda lost now (since i didnt checked it last week), the things i get stucked with are:

Never seen anybody talking about popping Aspect of the beast when popping Beast within until this last page. Is that a confirmed dps increase (while in beast within than ofc)

And what glyph should be changed for the improved aspect of the beast if that former statement is true? (since i cant believe getting rid off ss glyph, bw cooldown glyph or the longer serpentsting glyph can be dropped (and if i should choose i would say the serpentsting one)

Second is the hastepots. Since BM is hastecapped a hastepot isnt that much of a dps increase, and wouldnt a runic mana potion mean less time in viper = more dps increase? (-edit- just done 25 man raid once in wowlk :-( but thinking back mana didnt seemed any issue so haste might not be bad idea on some encounters, unless you need pot since healers cant keep up)

I cant try it out myself atm since i dont have exces to wow for like two weeks. But really wondering about it.

Regards Esox

(playing with spreadsheet aswell, but i dont get it working properly yet so i dont trust my numbers there so far)

Gonkish · 12/20/08, 2:48 PM

So a random question:

Is Arcane in it's PTR form (reduced cost) currently worth using over Steady, assuming you have the option of using either one? I'm asking primarily because I had a random idea about how they might be able to induce BM to liven up its rotation with Arcane, and I haven't been BM in ages.

Regardless, what if they changed [Glyph of Arcane Shot] to restore a % of your maximum mana instead of the current refund of a % of Arcane's cost (which is obviously much less valuable with the newly reduced cost)? Obviously, the numbers would have to be tweaked according to Blizzard's liking, but I think it'd be a good way to get away from pure Steady spam.

It'd also help Marks a bit in terms of its mana situation, now that I think about it. The other question is, would a reasonable BM Hunter actually use the Arcane glyph? Does a mana refund every six seconds warrant skipping out on something like Glyph of Serpent Sting (which would obviously have to be the glyph being replaced)?

Random brainstorming on my part.

Mikari · 12/20/08, 3:36 PM

It does more damage than Steady from my limited testing, so yes it's worth using. I'm not sure if the glyph is worth using over say Serpent though.

Sixty · 12/21/08, 5:36 PM

Originally Posted by esoxlucius

i used to follow this thread intensively, but i kinda lost now (since i didnt checked it last week), the things i get stucked with are:

Never seen anybody talking about popping Aspect of the beast when popping Beast within until this last page. Is that a confirmed dps increase (while in beast within than ofc)

And what glyph should be changed for the improved aspect of the beast if that former statement is true? (since i cant believe getting rid off ss glyph, bw cooldown glyph or the longer serpentsting glyph can be dropped (and if i should choose i would say the serpentsting one)

Second is the hastepots. Since BM is hastecapped a hastepot isnt that much of a dps increase, and wouldnt a runic mana potion mean less time in viper = more dps increase? (-edit- just done 25 man raid once in wowlk :-( but thinking back mana didnt seemed any issue so haste might not be bad idea on some encounters, unless you need pot since healers cant keep up)

I cant try it out myself atm since i dont have exces to wow for like two weeks. But really wondering about it.

Regards Esox

(playing with spreadsheet aswell, but i dont get it working properly yet so i dont trust my numbers there so far)

The switching to aspect of the beast under the effects of BW does net a slight dps increase, unless you're using a scorpid where the dps increase is much greater. His poison stacks that are already on the boss increase in damage and you (or him) gain buffs. I've tested this multiple times on a test dummy.

Let's say unbuffed your scorpid's poison is ticking for 1000 with 5 stacks. If you go aspect of the beast with everything else unchanged, the tick will immediately hit for 1100. Then you BW. It'll move to 1500. If he gets a ferocious inspriation tick it will move up to 1550 or so. For each buff he gains, that current stack of poison is increased. That is why when everything is up, they blow beast because a dedicated 5 stack poison ticked being increased by 3000 dmg is much more than the buff you'll gain from dragonhawk.

I have tried it with a Devilsaur and a cat, and the difference is minimal. I'd say maybe a 40-50dps difference between 3 BWs (BW, Raadiness BW, 70sec later BW).

Esoth · 12/22/08, 11:15 AM

Originally Posted by Gonkish

So a random question:

Is Arcane in it's PTR form (reduced cost) currently worth using over Steady, assuming you have the option of using either one? I'm asking primarily because I had a random idea about how they might be able to induce BM to liven up its rotation with Arcane, and I haven't been BM in ages.

Regardless, what if they changed [Glyph of Arcane Shot] to restore a % of your maximum mana instead of the current refund of a % of Arcane's cost (which is obviously much less valuable with the newly reduced cost)? Obviously, the numbers would have to be tweaked according to Blizzard's liking, but I think it'd be a good way to get away from pure Steady spam.

It'd also help Marks a bit in terms of its mana situation, now that I think about it. The other question is, would a reasonable BM Hunter actually use the Arcane glyph? Does a mana refund every six seconds warrant skipping out on something like Glyph of Serpent Sting (which would obviously have to be the glyph being replaced)?

Random brainstorming on my part.

13% arcane buff, 2% physical buff
Steady = (252 + WeaponDamage + AmmoDamage + RAP*0.1)*1.1*1.02*ArmorMitigation
Arcane = (492 + RAP*1.5)*1.13

Crit/Hit and other multipliers are the same for each, so they shouldn't need to be considered. As far as scaling goes, you would have to have a crazy amount of weapon/ammo DPS and/or armor penetration for steady to ever do as much damage as arcane shot with its current 10% RAP scaling. For the current gear and weapons in the game, arcane is always going to do more damage. Since the mana cost is now (or going to be... I remember seeing the blue post but I'm not sure if they've put it in the PTR yet) the same as steady, arcane doesn't really need to be spiced up for BM since they're going to want to use it all the time anyway

Anyone can put their info into the spreadsheet, but here's an example with Envoy, Timeless, 6k RAP, 25% armor mitigation.
Steady = (252 + 449/2.9*2.8 + 148.4 + 6000*0.1)*1.1*1.02*.75=1206.64
Arcane = (492 + 6000*.15)*1.13=1572.96

All multipliers will apply to both, but will further increase the delta between the two shots.

KraxisSingular · 12/22/08, 11:24 AM

The sillyness of this is that now every BM Hunter will just add a /castrandom line to the current setup.

Alex234 · 12/22/08, 11:53 AM

Esoth

Steady = (252 + WeaponDamage + AmmoDamage + RAP*0.1)*1.1*1.02*ArmorMitigation

and

Steady = (252 + 449/2.9*2.8 + 148.4 + 6000*0.1)*1.1*1.02*.75=1206.64

AmmoDamage is 148.4 ? Even if it so - it will not be 1206 or i just dont understand something :\

Esoth · 12/22/08, 11:59 AM

Originally Posted by Alex234

AmmoDamage is 148.4 ? Even if it so - it will not be 1206 or i just dont understand something :\

Timeless bullets/arrows are 53 DPS, which is 148.4 damage (assuming it's still normalized to 2.8 speed... otherwise slightly higher for this gun). I went through those numbers again and get the same result. I was actually incredibly lenient on armor mitigation - you're probably more likely to see something around 33% damage reduction than 25%. My point was just to show that arcane is better for BM. Why is 1206 wrong? If you see an error in my formula or math please tell me

Alex234 · 12/22/08, 12:13 PM

Timeless bullets/arrows are 53 DPS, which is 148.4 damage (assuming it's still normalized to 2.8 speed... otherwise slightly higher for this gun).

Oh, my bad, youre right here

Why is 1206 wrong? If you see an error in my formula or math please tell me

Im speaking about math only:

(252 + 449/2.9*2.8 + 148.4 + 6000*0.1)*1.1*1.02*0.75 = (252 + 55.296 + 148.4 + 600)*0.8415 = 1055.696 * 0.8415 = 888.368

It seems that 449/2.9*2.8 must be (449/2.9)*2.8

Esoth · 12/22/08, 1:17 PM

Originally Posted by Alex234

Oh, my bad, youre right here

Im speaking about math only:

(252 + 449/2.9*2.8 + 148.4 + 6000*0.1)*1.1*1.02*0.75 = (252 + 55.296 + 148.4 + 600)*0.8415 = 1055.696 * 0.8415 = 888.368

It seems that 449/2.9*2.8 must be (449/2.9)*2.8

449/2.9*2.8 = (449/2.9)*2.8 = 443.52 ((associative property of multiplication, I think))

Your number of 55.296 appears to be from 449/2.9/2.8 which is incorrect. What's really supposed to be happening here is that your weapon damage is being normalized to 2.8 - with a 2.9s gun there should not be a huge difference between normalized and non-normalized damage. You're dividing by 2.9 to get the DPS and then multiplying by 2.8 to get the damage as if it were a 2.8s weapon, to which it is normalized.

Nandei · 12/22/08, 2:34 PM

Originally Posted by Alex234

Oh, my bad, youre right here

Im speaking about math only:

(252 + 449/2.9*2.8 + 148.4 + 6000*0.1)*1.1*1.02*0.75 = (252 + 55.296 + 148.4 + 600)*0.8415 = 1055.696 * 0.8415 = 888.368

It seems that 449/2.9*2.8 must be (449/2.9)*2.8

There is no mistake, 449/2.9*2.8 is exactly the same as your version with the brackets. It would have to be 449/ _(_2.9*2.8_)_ to get the result you are getting.

Gozardina · 12/22/08, 4:59 PM

Originally Posted by Alex234

Nandei

...
Any news about scorpid poison scaling on PTR ?

Even with the new nerf, it appears to continue to outshine exotics on the PTR.

Skhope · 12/22/08, 5:53 PM

Originally Posted by Alex234

Nandei

Yep, youre right.
My work day was long and bad, so i become little stupid now

Any news about scorpid poison scaling on PTR ?

I don't have my data handy atm, but both scorpid and cat outdpsed/outdamaged my devilsaur and corehound on PTR with this spec (only 1 point in FA since I have 7% hit from my gear and it is still not affecting pet's hit on PTR).

Aern · 12/22/08, 7:24 PM

I posted quite a few logs from the ptr of different pets and builds over long periods of time, and it was pretty clear that scorpids were still the best dps pet out there. They're gonna have to buff devilsaurs pretty hard to get them to be worth it at all.