Beast Mastery Bible 3.0 - Page 61

Lilbitters · 01/13/09, 8:09 AM

Originally Posted by RSkillz

What are your reasons for picking the IAotH instead of the Stings?

On live the highest dps glyphs seem to be:
[Glyph of Bestial Wrath]
[Glyph of Steady Shot]

which leaves the options for the third up to:
[Item not found!]
[Glyph of Aspect of the Beast]
[Glyph of Serpent Sting]
[Glyph of Rapid Fire]
[Glyph of Arcane Shot]

The first and second are typically the most commonly seen, depending on playstyle. On live, very high numbers have been reported (especially by Orc BM hunters with Scorpids) using full time Aspect of the Beast. For players with cats or prefer to have more consistency on player-only buff modifying fight such as Thaddius or Loatheb, many prefer to stick with Aspect of the Dragonhawk either full time or only switching into Beast while under the effects of Bestial Wrath because the 50% to pet vs. 10% to player damage increase clear favors the latter.

The other glyphs do not indicate an ability to pass either of the other choices in DPS at this time.

On the PTR however, [Glyph of Serpent Sting] may become a popular choice due to its ability to save mana and squeeze out a few extra shots throughout the fight by freeing GCDs.

Unglyphed, 7 GCDs are required for 100% uptime every 1m45s.
Glyphed, 5 GCDs are required for 100% uptime every 1m45s. Thus allowing 2 more casts of either SS or ArcS.

RSkillz · 01/13/09, 8:56 AM

Thanks for your detailed answer, very much appreciated!
The reason I asked is that using the improved SS Glyph gave me the highest DPS in the spreadsheet and
alot of Macro's being used now also have the SS included (usually with a "shift" modifier), so I assumed
(I know, never assume...) the SS glyph was the 'standard'/best 3rd glyph choice.

I haven't been updating the spreadsheet for a while so that could be very well the reason.
I'll update and try out that IAotH Glyph on some dummies later on.

mako · 01/13/09, 10:07 AM

As Lilbitters posted, the IAotH is one of the best glyphs you can have if you run AotD instead of AotB.

Basically, the extra haste on quick shots procs outweighs the 1 GCD you 'save' every 18 seconds.

Brutalus · 01/13/09, 11:10 AM

Originally Posted by Dahlyla

OK this is in the macro thread in the hunter forums (well a variant) but i thought i would post it as its all that this thread has been based around for a while, as for a spam button to cast steady and arcane/aimed/chimera/anything u want

/cast Kill Shot
/castsequence reset=combat/target , Steady Shot
/cast reset=combat/target Arcane Shot

Will cast kill shot as priority, the cast sequenced steady with a blank first ability means that the steady won't trigger straight off and slide to the Arcane and cast it if it is off cooldown, otherwise it will resume the next step in the sequence and cast the steady, the reset on combat/target on the castsequence is needed as without it the following ability, in this cast arcane can get locked out when shifting targets

It's not perfect, the arcane can get clipped by the steady sometimes, delaying the arcane shot until that steady has finished, and there could be some issues with haste but i haven't seen any personally yet, but as far as a lazy macro goes, it works reasonably well, feel free to look in the hunter > macros thread at around page 3-4 for the people who came up with the idea

This macro did not work for me.

After testing this on live and reading the posts you refer too I think that this will not work for most BM hunters. I believe, but I am far from certain, the reason is, as you mentioned, haste issues. Since <all> BM hunters will have Serpent Swiftness the cool down on Steady is = or less then the GCD so there is no window of time for the macro to go to the next line. It simply recasts Steady Shot.

Schniepel · 01/13/09, 11:19 AM

It's almost certainly haste issues, since the same happens with MM spec whenever Bloodlust/Heroism or Rapid Fire is active. The macro simply reverts to Steady spam in that case.

Hond · 01/13/09, 11:22 AM

Originally Posted by Path

...Nope; you've already got the Kill shot (instant cast) in there. That macro would never fire Steady shot at all....

Why can't somebody have 2 instant shots in 1 macro? I never knew this to be honest, would like to know if this is indeed the case. Might you be right, I'd love suggestions on how to fix both shots in 1 or 2 macro's. I also suggest the BRK-topic on shot-rotations for BM, similar thinking going on over there.

SkotchDS · 01/13/09, 11:30 AM

Originally Posted by Brutalus

This macro did not work for me.

After testing this on live and reading the posts you refer too I think that this will not work for most BM hunters. I believe, but I am far from certain, the reason is, as you mentioned, haste issues. Since <all> BM hunters will have Serpent Swiftness the cool down on Steady is = or less then the GCD so there is no window of time for the macro to go to the next line. It simply recasts Steady Shot.

I took my survival macro:

/castsequence Steady Shot,
/cast Kill Shot
/cast Explosive Shot

and changed it to fit the post 3.08 style and got:

/castsequence Steady Shot,
/cast Kill Shot
/cast Arcane Shot

this macro works amazing for me, all I have to do is manually weave my Serpent Sting in and it's all I need.

Rokh · 01/13/09, 11:48 AM

Once you haste below the GCD, a macro that includes something like "/castsequence Steady Shot, " or the other way around will produce nothing but Steady Shots.

noglen · 01/13/09, 7:27 PM

The /castsequence Steady Shot, macros will work if you have a reasonable amount of lag and you are spamming it (or if you have low latency and spam the macro quick enough), but thats just because you are adding the lag to the cast time (as castsequence is performed client side), which is a bad thing.

eg. With 200ms latency
0.0 Casts Steady
1.5 Macro things steady is still on CD, so it fires Arcane
3.0 Macro casts steady
3.5 Steady and Arcane on CD, so nothing
3.7 Macro casts steady

And this is (imo) what blizzard wants. The option is always there to create a macro (be it a funky castsequence with an empty spell, or a long castsequence with your entire rotation in it), but your DPS won't be as high as someone who manually weaves their shots (this is the "skill" that blizzard wants us to have).

Gone are the days of every hunter getting a macro from the forums and spamming it to do max dps, which imo is a good thing, it will just take time for the community to get used to the change.

Why can't somebody have 2 instant shots in 1 macro? I never knew this to be honest, would like to know if this is indeed the case. Might you be right, I'd love suggestions on how to fix both shots in 1 or 2 macro's. I also suggest the BRK-topic on shot-rotations for BM, similar thinking going on over there.

Its not that you can't have 2 instants in a macro, its that you can't have 2 abilities that trigger the psuedo GCD.

When a macro runs, it basically tries to run all the lines at the same time. Since arcane/steady/etc... all trigger this psuedo GCD, the 1st /cast command that it hits will trigger it, thus preventing the rest of the macro from running. This was changed to prevent people from just lumping everything into one macro and having a spam button that does everything.

Kill shot doesn't trigger this (possible because of the health requirement or possibly because blizzard decided they didn't want it to so we could macro it), which is why you can put it in a macro with anything else and it will work.

edit: Fixed a type (thanks TrevvyTrev)

sihyunie · 01/13/09, 8:20 PM

Originally Posted by Hond

Why can't somebody have 2 instant shots in 1 macro? I never knew this to be honest, would like to know if this is indeed the case. Might you be right, I'd love suggestions on how to fix both shots in 1 or 2 macro's. I also suggest the BRK-topic on shot-rotations for BM, similar thinking going on over there.

Go to macro post. There is a good explanation as to why.
There are various useful macros in that thread as well.

Originally Posted by noglen

eg. With 200ms latency
0.0 Casts Steady
1.5 Macro things steady is still on CD, so it fires Arcane
3.0 Macro casts steady
3.5 Steady and Arcane on CD, so nothing
3.7 Macro casts steady

I'm being technical here, but macro doesn't think steady is on CD.
"/castsequence steady shot," is the same as "/castsequence steady shot, null" (I believe it is. Feel free to correct me).
So on the second press of the macro, it'll cast null on the first line, and instantly execute the second line and cast arcane shot. The problem occurs on the fourth cast, which casts null from the first line, thus attempts to cast arcane shot from the second line, which unfortunately is on cooldown. It'll cause a pseudo-cd, and then proceed with 5th execution and cast steady shot, adding more to the delay.
I think people know that the macro is inferior to manual weaving.
For some people, that extra dps is worth the tedious manual weaving, and for others, it's just not worth the effort.

Eurytos · 01/13/09, 8:46 PM

So, I went BM today for the first time. Standard 50/21/0 spec, with a Scorpid and AotB. Glyphs are AotB, Steady Shot, and Bestial Wrath.

We hit up Patchwerk and I'll say I was very disappointed in my Scorpid's numbers. Scorpid Sting averaged 2070 with a max 3028. I've seen ticks on others logs at 5000 damage. Is there is a trick to this? What would cause such a major discrepancy?

noglen · 01/13/09, 8:56 PM

Originally Posted by sihyunie

I'm being technical here, but macro doesn't think steady is on CD.

yeah your right now that I think about it more, the GCD is triggered client side, so there won't be an added delay to using /castsequence with steady alone.

As for people knowing that macros are inferior, i'd have to disagree. Just looking at the forums (both here and the wow hunter forums) the number of people that (basically) ask for the new DPS macro is huge. Theres been a heap of macros posted that do alot of your rotation for you with no downside, but people still want more out of them. We've been a macro spamming spec/class for so so long, it can take alot for people to get past the idea of an all purpose spam macro.

Originally Posted by Eurytos

So, I went BM today for the first time. Standard 50/21/0 spec, with a Scorpid and AotB. Glyphs are AotB, Steady Shot, and Bestial Wrath.

We hit up Patchwerk and I'll say I was very disappointed in my Scorpid's numbers. Scorpid Sting averaged 2070 with a max 3028. I've seen ticks on others logs at 5000 damage. Is there is a trick to this? What would cause such a major discrepancy?

You aren't hit capped through gear, and the hit from FA doesn't transfer to your pet, so it most likely had a few misses on its poision, causing the stack to drop off, which will cause a big loss of dps as it has to build the stack back up.

edit: Re-read your post, are you talking about DPS or individual ticks here (though my above comment still applies)

sihyunie · 01/13/09, 9:32 PM

I think people are expecting a huge dps boost like we've seen in TBC w/ 3:2 macro.
It was pretty much mandatory to use THE macro in TBC, because manual weaving was practically impossible.
We are never going to see that, since all we have to do now is just decide which shots to fire at every gcd.
I'm not saying macros are bad. I'm just saying that there should and would be a very minor delay caused by using "/castsequence , steady shot" macro because of the way it goes around an extra loop, and this, compared to perfect manual weaving, would have a slight dps loss.
I personally believe that such dps loss will be too small to even notice and the ease of playing from macro will be far more beneficial. I just think people out there shouldn't think you have to have this one button macro, and you can potentially reach better dps w/ manual weaving.

♦ Tobin · 01/14/09, 1:46 AM

Originally Posted by Gozardina

Interesting. Based off of comparing the different talent choices, and then a quick snapshot of abilities from the patchwerk fights, Nakka's scorpid's poison was the highest DPS ability (expected for this build). Trinkie's swing damage was also significantly higher. This is probably attributed to taking 3/3 Cobra Strikes and 1/3 Longevity (rather than 1/3 CS for 3/3 Long). on a patchwerk fight with Readiness you will get in 3 TBWs either way, so 3/3 Cobra Strikes will produce higher pet dps. The other interesting difference, is Nakka's inclusion of Arcane Shot into the rotation, sacrificing 2/2 rapid fire and 1/2 GftT and taking 3/3 Improved Arcane Shot. I saw another hunter previously post (can't recall where) a similar build and rotation and ran with Aspect of the Beast almost exclusively and put up over 6500 dps on Patchwerk. regarding your trinket, Grim Toll does not seem like an ideal trinket, as an AP on use would be much more beneficial to the pet than an ArP on use. (something like Sphere of Red Dragon's Blood would probably perform better in this case). And of course one last note is that with patch 3.0.8 just around the corner, it may be wise to look into a BM build that mitigates the changes to Steady shot and Arcane shot respectively, i.e. Arcane Shot being the priority and Steady just being a filler.

3/3 Imp. Arcane Shot damage edges out Steady slightly, but that is an expensive investment for a pretty small gain and tends to eat through your mana on fights where replenishment might not be on you as much. It also doesn't have an effect on pet DPS, which is the biggest chunk of her missing DPS. Is the pet spec'd into Spiked Collar...did it have full buffs? There can't be just one explanation for the pet's low damage output, it's doing less than half of what it is capable of.

Schniepel · 01/14/09, 3:41 AM

Originally Posted by sihyunie

"/castsequence steady shot," is the same as "/castsequence steady shot, null" (I believe it is. Feel free to correct me).

No it's not the same at all, since the second one gets stuck at the null part, until the castsequence resets. Fall-through macros are only possible with an empty cast.