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11/20/08, 1:48 PM
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#76
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Banned
Blood Elf Hunter
Hakkar (EU)
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Originally Posted by Mattaos
My current spec and my ferocity spec. I have garbage glyphs at the moment also. I plan on adding Steady Shot, Bestial Wrath and AotV glyphs as soon as they become available on my server (in guild). I am throwing this information out there just to have all things on the table going forward.
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Some questions about your spec Mattaos:
0/0 Imp Mend Pet: There are many situations where our pet is afflicted by curse/disease/other things, which healer dont dispel, ofc. A single point in Imp Mend is very useful, imho.
2/2 Animal Handler: Exactly, why? Seems our pets dont need anymore nothing, sharing with us hit, expertise is needed by warrior, for avoiding dodge (for ex, there are many class which need expertise), but if our pets stand behind the boss... Maybe I've missed some news about this talent.
1/3 Longevity: Ok, no Readiness, but 3/3 Longevity seems a good burst; in 4 minutes of fight, we can go BW 3 times, not bad, no?
Also, someone said that 51° BM means strong by 4 more points in pet spec, but I've some doubt: we can take the "real" dps utility talent also without 4 extra point by talent (in your pet spec, leaving charge, cower, and other, you have the same pet dps). Really, I cant see any stronger difference between a cat with 16 or 20 points.
/discuss
I've read many "spec 54/14/3, best spec ever", but I cant see yet any good example about this, some link?
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Loque'nahak is an odd pet to even toss into consideration at this point. Northrend just opened a week ago, so the spawn rate on this rare beast is being stalked by hundreds of hunters (Horde & Alliance). I have made a few early morning passes though the Basin hoping he appears, but realistically it is too early. I have seen one poorly geared/itemized hunter with this pet on my server so far.
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Loque'nahak also had arcane damage istead of Rake, some boss maybe can resist/immune him.
Last edited by Suspiria : 11/20/08 at 1:53 PM.
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11/20/08, 1:53 PM
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#77
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Don Flamenco
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Originally Posted by Suspiria
2/2 Animal Handler: Exactly, why? Seems our pets dont need anymore nothing, sharing with us hit, expertise is needed by warrior, for avoiding dodge (for ex, there are many class which need expertise), but if our pets stand behind the boss... Maybe I've missed some news about this talent.
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First, pets try to stand behind the boss, but they don't always succeed. Second, bosses and other NPCs can dodge things that are behind them -- it's only players that cannot.
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11/20/08, 1:55 PM
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#78
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Von Kaiser
Blood Elf Hunter
Mal'Ganis
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I think that some have talked about the Spirit Beast before and I was intrigued so I flew around the Basin for a few days and eventually found Loque'Nahak at 71, 71 or very close to it. I didn't have a free pet slot at the time so I flew to a stable master and came back about 4 minutes later, and the Beast was still there. I do not know if he pats but he did not move in the 4 minutes between when I found and trained him. He is not aggressive and was yellow on my screen, don't know if this will be the same for everyone but it should help for hunters tracking beasts. Good luck in getting him all =)
I don't know if he's any good and my preliminary tests in some heroics were not looking good, but perhaps some people can get him so we can get lots of data as to his viability.
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11/20/08, 1:58 PM
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#79
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Banned
Blood Elf Hunter
Hakkar (EU)
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Originally Posted by TrevvyTrev
First, pets try to stand behind the boss, but they don't always succeed. Second, bosses and other NPCs can dodge things that are behind them -- it's only players that cannot.
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Ok but, until now, we havent form of expertise for our pets: Animal Handler means a real increase in dps?
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11/20/08, 2:08 PM
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#80
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Glass Joe
Night Elf Hunter
Sentinels
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On the subject of Loque'Nahak, the secondary on Spirit Strike fails to proc roughly 90% of the time, since use of the attack refreshes the debuff before it deals damage. That said, with 3200 RAP, Spirit Strike crits for roughly 1100 damage. He's marginally behind standard cats because of Rake.
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11/20/08, 2:12 PM
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#81
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Don Flamenco
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Originally Posted by Suspiria
Ok but, until now, we havent form of expertise for our pets: Animal Handler means a real increase in dps?
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Correct. It is a real increase in dps because fewer pet attacks will be dodged (or parried).
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11/20/08, 2:44 PM
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#82
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Glass Joe
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I've been working on putting together a quick guide for the other hunters in my guild. Currently I am reccomending BM (not forced), but may suggest MM as we get more haste gear (not in Naxx quite yet).
I haven't written the whole thing out yet, but here is a quick synopsis:
Spec: Talent Calculator - World of WarcraftMay go with AH instead of SB Pet Spec: Pet Calculator - WowheadNot sure if this is "cookie cutter" ferocity, but I think it should be :P Macros:
Rabid in with Steady Shot spam
CotW in with a Cooldown Macro - Trinket (2 in my case) + KC + BW + CotW
An "oh shit" button for pets - Lick Wounds / Phoenix
What do you guys think of this?
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11/20/08, 3:10 PM
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#83
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Piston Honda
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Originally Posted by Suspiria
Some questions about your spec Mattaos:
0/0 Imp Mend Pet: There are many situations where our pet is afflicted by curse/disease/other things, which healer dont dispel, ofc. A single point in Imp Mend is very useful, imho.
2/2 Animal Handler: Exactly, why? Seems our pets dont need anymore nothing, sharing with us hit, expertise is needed by warrior, for avoiding dodge (for ex, there are many class which need expertise), but if our pets stand behind the boss... Maybe I've missed some news about this talent.
1/3 Longevity: Ok, no Readiness, but 3/3 Longevity seems a good burst; in 4 minutes of fight, we can go BW 3 times, not bad, no?
Also, someone said that 51° BM means strong by 4 more points in pet spec, but I've some doubt: we can take the "real" dps utility talent also without 4 extra point by talent (in your pet spec, leaving charge, cower, and other, you have the same pet dps). Really, I cant see any stronger difference between a cat with 16 or 20 points.
/discuss 
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You mention things that make perfect sense for the most part, but keep somethings in mind as the gears begin to grind trying to hash out the perfect spec...it is early in the expac and 95% of the WoW players base is not actively hammering 25 man content. There is plenty of time to test/tweak/adjust specs.
In order to keep my spec lean to tap into as much potential DPS as I can I had to decide whether certain talents were a "must have" or a "useful to have." Imp Mend didn't fall into a "must have" category for me. A few reasons for this is I raid with some very good resto shamans, which almost eliminates my use of Mend to heal my pet. Also, my pets has never had issues in being dispelled in my raid. Lastly, I opted to stick with 4/5 Frenzy since my (and my pets) crit chance is so low at 80 and dropping to 3/5 Frenzy is not wise. Eventually I will have an extra point from Frenzy to move into another talent, but I doubt it will be in Imp Mend.
I will not drive into Animal Handler. It has been touched on above and some simple research on expertise will reveal the power of this talent for a melee pet.
Currently, I am using a Cat for a DPS pet. You can search the old WotLK T&A thread (now locked) for more information about this topic. The tick duration of Rake is effected by Longevity and though 3/3 Longevity is ideal under my current spec I do not have enough points to cap the talent. The next best option is either 0/3 or 1/3 Long. I opted for 1/3 since (based on the spreadsheet) is net DPS gain overall vs. not taking Long at all.
Again, as my gear improves and I gain more crit I will have the freedom to shift points around some more. Another area I could draw a point from is GFTT at some point. Like I said you have brought valid points about specing BM, but you are also assuming a hunter will be proportionally balanced with DPS stats as we were at 70.
Last night, in heroic Drak'theron Keep (using the gear I currently have on the armory) I pulled over 2900 DPS on the first boss using my Cat and the spec I posted. That might not be that impressive for some, but the point is that there is a method to my madness in the way I spec'd in order to provide as much DPS potential as I can.
I have become a fan of the 51 point talent for shear pet survivability, hence another reason I don't have to invest early talent points into Imp mend. Imp Cower and Bloodthristy are extremely valuable talents. It is true you can grab all the necessary DPS talents without the 4 extra points and is something I will explore after I determine what the best DPS pet option is going to be, which at this point is up in the air some. I cannot access my Devialsaur without the talent and it is just dumb to continuously pay 50g to respec every time I want to test him out on a run. Make sense?
EDIT: Response to Mr00000
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What do you guys think of this?
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Aimed Shot is pointless for BM. Animal Handler is a must. Spirit Bond vs. Imp Mend Pet debatable (see my above response). 3/5 Frenzy is not wise for a hunter not geared from Naxx because crit procs will be too low to have consistency. The 3/5 Frenzy concept was discussed during level 70 raiding post-3.0.
Without a lot more WWS reports and tests coming in from live raiding it is a bit early to call "cookie cutter" anything.
Last edited by Mattaos : 11/20/08 at 3:19 PM.
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11/20/08, 3:29 PM
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#84
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Glass Joe
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Originally Posted by Mattaos
EDIT: Response to Mr00000
Aimed Shot is pointless for BM. Animal Handler is a must. Spirit Bond vs. Imp Mend Pet debatable (see my above response). 3/5 Frenzy is not wise for a hunter not geared from Naxx because crit procs will be too low to have consistency. The 3/5 Frenzy concept was discussed during level 70 raiding post-3.0.
Without a lot more WWS reports and tests coming in from live raiding it is a bit early to call "cookie cutter" anything.
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I see your point on AH, and somewhat on SB / IMP.
I went with Aimed because it is 1 point for an instant healing debuff that can help on certain encounters. Once I get enough crit, I would go 1 in GftT and 2 in Rapid Fire.
I did 3/5 frenzy because I did Cobra Strikes / Invigoration over Tracking in your build. I need to play with the numbers, but I think between the pets normal crit, cobra strikes, and the buff to Kill Command from Focused Fire, 3/5 in Frenzy should be enough.
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11/20/08, 3:47 PM
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#85
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Piston Honda
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Originally Posted by Mr00000
I did 3/5 frenzy because I did Cobra Strikes / Invigoration over Tracking in your build. I need to play with the numbers, but I think between the pets normal crit, cobra strikes, and the buff to Kill Command from Focused Fire, 3/5 in Frenzy should be enough.
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The bulk of the crit to support 3/5 Frenzy is going to come from Cobra Strikes, which is only proc'd off your ability to land a critical. For me, currently I only have 20% chance to crit severely reducing the consistency for a CS proc. The other thing that drives Frenzy is the pets ability to hit the target consistently (pet crit chance is enough), which is where AH comes in and our ability to gear for hit. Kill Command is a 60s CD rendering it an "ok" at best ability for increasing consistent pet crits since a lot needs to happen during that 1 minute CD to keep Frenzy up.
My main point is the 1 point you gain from 3/5 Frenzy can only be used in either Imp Mend or Spirit Bond anyway. The question is now whether the player has enough crit to proc CS enough to boost the pets ability to crit consistent enough to maintain Frenzy? Gemming for hit and crit is an option I guess. Frenzy is a DPS gain where SB and Imp Mend are not for the most part. I would be interested to see what you find post Naxx gear.
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11/20/08, 4:02 PM
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#86
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Glass Joe
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Originally Posted by Rathenel
On the subject of Loque'Nahak, the secondary on Spirit Strike fails to proc roughly 90% of the time, since use of the attack refreshes the debuff before it deals damage. That said, with 3200 RAP, Spirit Strike crits for roughly 1100 damage. He's marginally behind standard cats because of Rake.
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You sure it crits? i haven't seen spirit strike crit yet on the initial hit, but recount may not be recording it so i'll have to hit a test dummy and watch the combat log.
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11/20/08, 4:16 PM
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#87
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Von Kaiser
Blood Elf Hunter
Mal'Ganis
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The dissent about whether or not Glyph of Steady Shot and T6 4 set bonus stacks is alarming. I'd very much like to see some sort of consensus about this because I'm trying to hold off throwing out my 4 set until Naxx at least and if I didn't need to do that it'd be great to know .
Originally Posted by Ristoril
You sure it crits? i haven't seen spirit strike crit yet on the initial hit, but recount may not be recording it so i'll have to hit a test dummy and watch the combat log.
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Wow Web Stats
I just got Loque'Nahak so he's not even 80 yet but this is a parse from an Old Kingdom Heroic last night and according to WWS, spirit strike is recording as a dot and I'm getting no crits. Granted that my crit is low =) but it shouldn't be zero if it's capable of critting.
Last edited by Valinnor : 11/20/08 at 4:22 PM.
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11/20/08, 4:25 PM
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#88
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Bald Bull
Toroko
Blood Elf Paladin
No WoW Account
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If someone on Mal'Ganis has the glyph I'll see if I can get a /combatlog and WWS up tonight.
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Originally Posted by DeeNogger
Every time I bite into an oatmeal raisin cookie mistaken for a chocolate-chip an angle loses its wings. Fucking trani's of the cookie world!
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Originally Posted by castille
Squirrel sex. Get your nut and go home.
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11/20/08, 4:31 PM
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#89
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Glass Joe
Night Elf Hunter
Sentinels
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I'm getting Crits on the initial hit and none on the secondary damage if it occurs. I've turned off Rake and Claw to test this.
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11/20/08, 5:14 PM
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#90
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Glass Joe
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Spirit strike is deffinitly not critting. What i'm seeing on the test dummy is the intial hit then it not recasting again till the dot finishes which eventually makes it look like 2 hits with the reapplication and the dot going off . This is with a level 80 pet on a level 80 test dummy everything turned off except but spirit strike. You may want to retest Rathenel
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