Hunter: Simple Questions/Simple Answers - Page 65

Ninaev · 11/09/09, 7:00 AM

Third post in less than 12 hours, I hope I'm not annoying

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Was toying a bit with use of my cooldowns. I was usually popping them right from the start. But now I started to wait till my greatness/paragon proc for the 2nd time, around 40-50 sec into fight and noticed dps increase even if, for example, boss is killed 20 seconds before my rapid fire/readiness would be up again and thus I might have been able to use it one more time if I popped it right from start.
Greatness/Paragon is up right from the start and I might lose 2-3 sec till I apply everything I should and start my rotation and maybe sunders are not up yet so I don't have full use of my burst right then? So it's better to wait for trinkets to proc again and have full usage of them even if I would lose one more possible rapid fire/readiness combo near the end?
How do people manage it usually?

Tainter · 11/09/09, 7:24 AM

Most Hunters I see don't spec into Improved Hunter's Mark, so I assume that there are better talents to take for personal dps. How many Hunters does a raid need to result in an overall dps gain from one of them picking up Hunter's Mark?

KraxisSingular · 11/09/09, 9:57 AM

Originally Posted by alienangel

I think he was positing use of Wild Magic during volley because the crit from it is useful for volley (while the haste from Speed isn't).

You mean, cast Volley then during the channel pop a potion? Well isn't that an impossible action? I'm pretty certain that Volley does in fact benefit from a Haste pot since it is a flat rating added. However it doesn't benefit from Rapid Fire since it is technically a spell and not a ranged ability affected by Ranged Haste (personally I would like to see it get put in there, but it isn't a big issue).

Whitefyst · 11/09/09, 11:58 AM

Originally Posted by Tainter

Most Hunters I see don't spec into Improved Hunter's Mark, so I assume that there are better talents to take for personal dps. How many Hunters does a raid need to result in an overall dps gain from one of them picking up Hunter's Mark?

IHM is usually not taken by either SV or BM hunters since they only have a few points to take outside of their trees and cannot usually afford to spend them in IHM. How many hunters it would take to be in the raid to make up for an SV or BM hunter taking IHM is hard to say since it depends on what talents that hunter is giving up and the relative DPS of the other hunters. For an SV friend, if he took IHM, he would have to give up a point in RK and 2 in IS. That would cost him only -4 DPS on marked targets (but more of a loss on unmarked ones). Hence, it would only take one other hunter to make it a positive.

IHM can be a good talent to take for MM hunters though. Since the current standard MM spec goes 57 talents deep into the MM tree, there are not many other options to the spend the points on. Currently for my MM hunter, IHM is a DPS gain for me alone on marked targets compared to the other options where I would spend the points (ISS).

alienangel · 11/09/09, 1:14 PM

Originally Posted by KraxisSingular

You mean, cast Volley then during the channel pop a potion? Well isn't that an impossible action? I'm pretty certain that Volley does in fact benefit from a Haste pot since it is a flat rating added. However it doesn't benefit from Rapid Fire since it is technically a spell and not a ranged ability affected by Ranged Haste (personally I would like to see it get put in there, but it isn't a big issue).

I was thinking more pop the WM pot before you start volleying, since it's quite predictable when you'll volley. I honestly haven't checked whether the speed potion helps on volley and shouldn't have said above that it doesn't - you're almost certainly correct in that it does affect volley since it's haste rating.

Personally I save Speed pots for a runestone proc that I don't have rapid fire or heroism for, or a runestone proc I'm using Call of the Wild on.

Plasmox · 11/09/09, 1:59 PM

I've been testing different rotations out with MM. I've been SV for a while now, but I finally got a runestone not so long ago, and decided to respec to MM. I was wondering how my rotation should look.

I have glyphed for serpent sting, chimera shot, and aimed shot.

So from reading the forums, I've been using the following rotation starting with Serpent sting

Silencing shot - Aimed shot -> Chimera Shot -> Steady shot

I use Silencing shot whenever it's up coupled with either Aimed or Chimera, but I start with Aimed because I don't run into GCD overlapping that way, while with Chimera starting, I seem to be running into having both shots overlapping the GCD. It seems to check with the spreadsheet too.

But anyway, my question is, am I using the correct glyphs, and rotation, or should my rotation be something else?
Also, is the spreadsheet representing marks correctly? According to the spreadsheet, I should be doing about 100~ more dps than Marks.

thanks :3

Ardeaf · 11/10/09, 12:14 PM

Originally Posted by Ninaev

So it's better to wait for trinkets to proc again and have full usage of them even if I would lose one more possible rapid fire/readiness combo near the end?
How do people manage it usually?

I use it right off the bat, to ensure I squeeze as many rapid fires in on the boss as possible. I have a macro for serpent sting that makes it so when I press shift+serpent sting it uses rapid fire right before the serpent sting.

And no, it's not better to wait for sunders/debuffs on the boss if you could've squeezed another rapid/readiness combo in.
It doesn't take that long for a five stack of sunders to get up anyway. However, if the difference of waiting for sunders to get up does not make you lose another rapid fire at the end, then you should wait for sunders; though I do not know how anyone could be so sure of this.

Xyra · 11/10/09, 1:38 PM

Is there any hunter spreadsheet beeing updated currently? Shandaras download seems to be bugging =)

Iru · 11/10/09, 1:45 PM

Shandara's isp is relocating servers and the spreadsheet is unavailable until sometime Wednesday

valiloramov · 11/10/09, 3:53 PM

Which spec hunter does the best AOE damage?

I'm guessing it's between MM and SV. As far as I can tell, SV has more crit & AP while MM has a talent which boosts Volley damage - which is higher? I'm guessing SV?

JoeF-3 · 11/11/09, 1:24 AM

Pretty sure if you've got the Barrage/Imp Barrage talents, it's MM by a lot. Surv does have higher ap with full buffs and the EW proc, but the talents will give MM the better crit rate on the volley ticks, along with increased damage, which I'm almost certain more than makes up for the difference.

Illuria · 11/11/09, 10:06 AM

@valiloramov:
MM is the best for AoE damage. Although why you're considering AoE damage as a major concern is beyond me. Only case could be if you're not dps-ing the whelps in Onyxia down quick enough :P

Kalilah · 11/11/09, 12:14 PM

I have a question about Misdirect.

Do shots like Serpent Sting and Black Arrow consume charges of Misdirect?

For example: I am assigned to MDing an Add to the OT during the ToGC25 Anub Arak encounter. I start out dpsing Anub making sure to put up Serpent Sting and BA. Then the Adds pop up and I cast MD on the OT and start to shoot the add. Here sometimes I pull aggro before the add makes it all the way to the OT.

Is it possible that Serp and/or BA on Anub are consuming MD charges before I can get an instant off on the add?

Any clarification on MD in this situation would be greatly appreciated.

Ardeaf · 11/11/09, 12:20 PM

I don't think SrS and BA ticks consume charges of MD. However, any shots that connect after you cast MD will consume charges. So if your autoshot goes off right as you cast MD, then that autoshoot will probably consume a charge of MD. Ticks of explosive shot do consume MD charges though, so you might want to watch that.

What shots exactly are you using to MD to the tank?

Kesslyr · 11/11/09, 12:27 PM

Exactly the same that was happening to me when I was MDing the two back adds, until I found out the Explosive Shot that I squeezed in before turning for the adds was eating my last 2 charges.

I have also been trying to MD 3 adds and let our single block tank pick his last target, thing that worked most of the time in P1 using Auto Shot-Auto Shot-Aimed Shot. Thinking about trying with Arcane-Aimed-Arcane for added threat

KraxisSingular · 11/11/09, 12:46 PM

Serp and BA ticks don't consume MD charges, but the application does. And not to worry, it is apparently the entire duration that gets transfered. For MM it is slightly different as the Chimera reset of Serp also kills the MD transfer (apparently the reset Serepent Sting counts as a new one).

So using either with MD isn't as bad as one might think. ES however is utter crap for it if used for pulls or helping on adds like on Anub. All three charges count as well as the application.

baklava · 11/12/09, 10:15 AM

Originally Posted by Illuria

@valiloramov:
MM is the best for AoE damage. Although why you're considering AoE damage as a major concern is beyond me. Only case could be if you're not dps-ing the whelps in Onyxia down quick enough :P

I believe this is a wrong information. Nowadays SV is as best as MM for AOE. The main reason is that SV can crit more than MM hunters

WoW Meter Online - Combatlog Replay

This link shows how much volley can critically hit (up to 4500) and how much crit with Volley (66%) with a good geared hunter.

If we take a MM as example;

http://www.wowmeteronline.com/combat...3265#damageout

The crit rate drops to 63% and with max 4.4k crit damage.

They are very close, but SV seems a little better.

KraxisSingular · 11/12/09, 12:37 PM

Indeed, the only advantage MM has on the AoE is the 12% damage on Volley. Survival has, in ToC gear, a lot more crit and way more AP. It is quite simply the scaling of Exposed Weakness and Lightning Reflexes vs Barrage and Combat Experience. If Imp Barrage was to be included with 12% crit for Volley then I think MM would retain the AoE king title (for Hunters).
Personally I was rather surprised when I found out that I didn't do better as MM on AoE.

Whitefyst · 11/12/09, 12:47 PM

Originally Posted by baklava

I believe this is a wrong information. Nowadays SV is as best as MM for AOE. The main reason is that SV can crit more than MM hunters

WoW Meter Online - Combatlog Replay

This link shows how much volley can critically hit (up to 4500) and how much crit with Volley (66%) with a good geared hunter.

If we take a MM as example;

WoW Meter Online - Combatlog Replay

The crit rate drops to 63% and with max 4.4k crit damage.

They are very close, but SV seems a little better.

SV may or not be better Volley AoE than MMs, but your example does not really provide real evidence of it. Just taking the results of two player's fights and drawing conclusions is fraught for several reasons:

- RNG: Its not enough of a sample to provide definitive results.

- Average Damage: Despite the low crit rate, the MM hunter in your example still had higher average Volley damage (2841 to 2653) than the SV hunter. In addition, the MM had higher lowest damage too (1127 to 987).

- Different raids, different buffs: It is not a fair comparison. For instance, the raid for the SV hunter listed had a Feral Druid providing the +5% crit always while the MM hunter did not and only had 95% uptime of Rampage.

- Different Gear: Although their gear is comparable, its hard to compare when they are not exactly the same. One of the factors is that although the range weapons for both hunters had the same DPS, the SV hunter's was the slower of the two weapons, with a higher max and lower min damage. Hence, if everything else was equal, he was likely to have the high max crit as well as the lowest min non-crit, which leads to once again average damage is what is important.

Hence, with the examples you provided, my conclusion would be that MM does better Volley damage than SV, but that wouldn't be an accurate conclusion either per the reasons listed above.

Sterfane · 11/12/09, 1:01 PM

Very simple question. Been researching it and can't find any real information on this at all.

Improved Tracking: Do I need to change tracking every time I fight a different type of mob, or will this just be a straight 5% damage increase regardless or who, or what I am tracking?

Seen a lot of posts all over the place saying I don't need to change it, but then others say you do and there're all sorts of macros/addons to allow the change to be easy. Some solid answers would be great, thanks.

(Edited because I learned to spell)

Nandei · 11/12/09, 1:29 PM

Sterfane: No you do not need to change tracking. Improved Tracking was changed back in 3.0.8 so that as long as you are tracking one of the mentioned mob types, you get +5% damage against all the other types too.

The macros and addons are relics from time before 3.0.8, when it was necessary to switch tracking, but quite useless (and annoying) now.

Whitefyst · 11/12/09, 1:29 PM

Originally Posted by Sterfane

Very simple question. Been researching it and can't find any real information on this at all.

Improved Tracking: Do I need to change tracking every time I fight a different type of mob, or will this just be a straight 5% damage increase regardless or who, or what I am tracking?

Seen a lot of posts all over the place saying I don't need to change it, but then others say you do and there're all sorts of macros/addons to allow the change to be easy. Some solid answers would be great, thanks.

(Edited because I learned to spell)

When 3.0 first came out, you only got the bonus if you were actually tracking the type of mob you were attacking. Hence, you needed to switch tracking when you switched to a different target of different type, and mods were created to help with that effort.

In 3.0.8, Blizzard redesigned the talent. The tooltip now reads:

While tracking Beasts, Demons, Dragonkin, Elementals, Giants, Humanoids and Undead, all ranged damage done to those types is increased by 1/2/3/4/5%.

Hence, as long as you are tracking at least one of the above types, you get the 5% bonus to attacks against all the elisted types. For instance, if you are PvPing and am tracking Humanoids and use a Multishot on a hunter and his wolf pet (a beast), then you now get the 5% bonus on both attacks (while pre-3.0.8 you would not).

Note that IT still provides no bonus to unlisted types of targets, such as Mechanical targets.

Saltyone · 11/12/09, 3:36 PM

I can't recall where I found this macro originally (probably earlier in this thread TBH) but it was especially helpful when IT relied on the right tracking type for the bonus. It automatically selects your target's type and changes what you're tracking appropriately.

At the time there was also no tracking selection list as there is now on your mini-map, so you needed to have tracking on your action bars/macro'd to swap, so this really consolidated the task of managing tracking.

Now I just keep it attached to a Hunter's Mark macro so I'll automatically swap from fishing or whatever.

#showtooltip
/stopmacro [noexists]
/run for i=1,GetNumTrackingTypes() do local n, t, a, c = GetTrackingInfo(i); if string.find(n, UnitCreatureType("target")) then if t~=GetTrackingTexture(i) then SetTracking(i); end end end
/cast Hunter's Mark

Ayn · 11/12/09, 6:20 PM

I just read on the wow forums that Glyph of Trueshot Aura doesn't stack with Imp. Barrage, is this true? If yes that makes it quite obsolete. But if no, why does Abominatrion's Might and Unleashed Rage cancel my Trueshot Aura? Will the Glyph still work when it was on before it got overridden, or do i have to macro some /cancelaura stuff into my Aimed Shot?

Whitefyst · 11/12/09, 7:30 PM

Originally Posted by Ayn

I just read on the wow forums that Glyph of Trueshot Aura doesn't stack with Imp. Barrage, is this true? If yes that makes it quite obsolete. But if no, why does Abominatrion's Might and Unleashed Rage cancel my Trueshot Aura? Will the Glyph still work when it was on before it got overridden, or do i have to macro some /cancelaura stuff into my Aimed Shot?

The 10% Aimed Shot crit from the Glyph of Trueshot Aura stacks with the 12% crit from IB. As evidence, here are the results from a 25-man raid night of Ony, ToC-N, and the first two bosses in ToC-H.

Aimed Shot:
Total Casts: 256
Hits: 43 (16.8%)
Crits: 204 (79.7%)
Block: 7 (2.7%)
Immune: 2 (0.8%)

Chimera Shot:
Total Casts: 268
Hits: 99 (36.9%)
Crits: 163 (60.8%)
Block: 5 (1.9%)
Immune: 1 (0.4%)

From this raid, there was a 19% difference between AiS and CS crit rate. The next night the difference was about the expected 22% (80.2% - 58.3) from a larger about 450 shot sample.

Concerning AM and UR, just like other proc abilities, they "overwrite" any existing similar ability such as auras. This resulted in the TSA glyph not being effective previously unless you had an Aimed Shot macro that cancelled the auras before casting the shot. Suppossedly, this was fixed in the 3.2.2 patch; however, since it doesn't hurt anything, I still cancel the auras to be safe.