I was wondering if there's a mod of some kind that could scan the raid composition and report a list of available buffs and the members that are specced to apply the best version of the buff/debuff.
I'm unclear about how ArPen and Sunder work together, even after a good amount of searching. I've read the Q&A but still need some clarification.
Q) What is the ArPen cap? What is the soft cap with my trinket? How do sunder/faerie fire affect it?
A) 1400 ArPen will provide 100% armor reduction. This will not reduce boss armor to zero since there is a constant which determines the maximum amount of armor that can be reduced, but past 1400 any additional ArPen will not provide additional benefit. To calculate the soft cap with a trinket you can subtract the amount of ArPen provided by the trinket from the cap. The armor reduction from sunder and faerie fire are applied before ArPen is taken into account, so they do not affect the ArPen cap.
Does the sunder reduce the constant by 20% or is it completely useless to the hunter's damage after they've reached the 1400 cap?
Does the sunder reduce the constant by 20% or is it completely useless to the hunter's damage after they've reached the 1400 cap?
The constant is based on player level and is not affected by anyting else and prevents ArPen from reducing the full amount of armor. Sunder reduces the effective armor before anything else is considered so it will still affect your damage regardless of whether the hunter is capped, since the ArPen is only applied to the amount of armor left after the sunder is applied and there will still be some armor left in both cases (but more without sunder). For example, at the ArPen cap I end up with 315 effective target armor, without sunder there is 1663 armor left, and without faerie fire or sunder there's 2018 armor left.
As fights on ICC bosses seems to be 5 minutes fights, my MM hunter always seems to end his mana after 3 minutes.
At that point of time, I need to move to "Aspect of the Viper" for 30 seconds, in that period of time, I'm losing a lot of DPS.
Do you have any tips how to maintain the mana level, when we are only facing single boss?
As fights on ICC bosses seems to be 5 minutes fights, my MM hunter always seems to end his mana after 3 minutes.
At that point of time, I need to move to "Aspect of the Viper" for 30 seconds, in that period of time, I'm losing a lot of DPS.
Do you have any tips how to maintain the mana level, when we are only facing single boss?
There are several ways to extend your mana, but most are not something you can control from fight to fight.
First off, don't forget Vipersting if its a boss with mana. Vipersting and chimera refresh it when it has run a while for an okay amount of mana while autoshots and Aimed and/or arcane is a full strength.
Of course there is the using Aspect of the Viper anytime you have to move around or can't dps the boss full time - however this tactic can cost you some real damage done if you end up at >0 mana.
In the raid environment you can look at (or ask your raidleader to look at more likely) sources of replenishment. You do't specify if its 10 or 25 man raiding, but in my own experience mana usually isn't a problem in 25 man raids (granted I haven't been in ICC 25 as MM, so YMMV), but in 10 mans replenishment can really be scarce depending on the setup - but it will help a lot if you can get a replenisher in.
Last of my "solutions" is, if you have a paladin and you are not getting BoW, ask for it - if you end up in viper as much as you do you probably lose more dps from viper than you gain from BoM /BoK.
As fights on ICC bosses seems to be 5 minutes fights, my MM hunter always seems to end his mana after 3 minutes.
At that point of time, I need to move to "Aspect of the Viper" for 30 seconds, in that period of time, I'm losing a lot of DPS.
Do you have any tips how to maintain the mana level, when we are only facing single boss?
Just want to add a few others to what has been said by Nooska :
- As mentioned in various threads, there are several boss-specific tricks in ICC to gain more mana and reduce Viper downtime :
For Deathwhisper, if you're on adds duty (which generally runs you OOM faster than if you're on boss duty), you can Viper Sting the boss whle DPSing the adds. However, be aware that for damage purposes, Serpent Sting will reduce her mana shield better than Viper Sting.
For Putricide and Sindragosa's phase transitions (stunned by Tear Gas, waiting for Ice Tombs to drop, being Icetombed) you can enter AotV. Especially during Tear Gas/being Icetombed, you're incapacitated anyway.
For Valithria, put Viper Sting on the Archliches while DPSing more dangerous targets. It will make sure that you'll never run OOM even in 10man.
For Festergut, if you're quick on your fingers, you can enter AotV for the split second before he casted the Vile Gas. Using the 3-ppl-on-ranged strat on 10-man, it pretty much guarantees that every 1/2/3 Vile Gas will hit me anyway.
- When you have to enter AotV anyway, aspect-dance. Meaning switch to AotDH for Chimera/Aimed, and switch back to AotV when doing Steadies. Chim and Aimed are essentially our 10-secs nukes, and you don't want to reduce them to 50%, do you? Also, never ever apply Serpent Sting in AotV.
- When running OOM frequently, Runic Mana Potion provides better DPS than Haste or Wild Magic potion.
- Based on my experience, besides Replenishment, Paladin's Judgement of Wisdom is probably one of the most important debuff for our class. Not having JoW on the target/boss hurts me a lot more than several other raid buffs/debuffs combined. Even if you only have one paladin, it's generally beneficial to judge wisdom, unless your raid healing is struggling a lot and have to judge JoL.
- Contrary to Serpent Sting's Chimera usage, if you want to gain the most mana possible using Viper Sting, don't refresh it immediately. Instead, let the Viper STing run close as possible (barring lag) to its full duration, then refresh with Chimera. But you shouldn't do this very often.
- Based on my experience, besides Replenishment, Paladin's Judgement of Wisdom is probably one of the most important debuff for our class. Not having JoW on the target/boss hurts me a lot more than several other raid buffs/debuffs combined. Even if you only have one paladin, it's generally beneficial to judge wisdom, unless your raid healing is struggling a lot and have to judge JoL.
This is by FAR the most important part of your mana regeneration. JoW is the single greatest mana gain you'll find on any boss. Look up WoL's for top hunters (in their Buffs Gained section) for single target fights and you'll find something like 15k mana regen from JoW and 7k from Replenishment. And not only does it affect just hunters, but ALL classes that use mana (hunters gain the most benefit however).
Right now my 3rd glyph is Hawk, mostly because I focus on 10man content and fights don't last long enough to merit the Kill Shot glyph. Looking over the armory profiles of some big name hunters (Kripparrian, Munken, etc.) I noticed that they were all using Chimera Shot. My understanding was that using the Chimera Shot glyph would cause your CDs to clash and mess up the standard 1-1-4 MM cycle. But clearly Kripparian knows a lot more about playing a hunter than I do--how does he make the glyph a better choice?
I'm unclear about how ArPen and Sunder work together, even after a good amount of searching. I've read the Q&A but still need some clarification.
Does the sunder reduce the constant by 20% or is it completely useless to the hunter's damage after they've reached the 1400 cap?
I have found a very helpful text in the official WoW forums. Yes, you did read that correctly: useful + official forums. Unfortunately, I do not know the author's name, but whoever he/she is, should get full credit for it. This helped me to understand the way ArPen works much better.
Originally Posted by Unknown
All raid bosses have 10,643 armor. It used to be higher, but was lowered so that groups without the armor debuffs wouldn't suffer so much.
The minor (5%) and major (20%) armor debuffs are multiplicative:
10643 armor * (1 - 0.05 minor armor debuff) * (1 - 0.20 major armor debuff) = 8088.68 fully debuffed armor
As an aside, 8088.68 armor is worth 34.68% physical damage reduction
How to compute for the effects of Armor Penetration?
Step 1: Get the effectiveness cap.
Effectiveness cap = (armor + 15232.5 constant) / 3
Effectiveness cap = (8088.68 armor + 15232.5 constant) / 3
Effectiveness cap = 7773.727
Note that if the target's armor is so low that it is below the computed effectiveness cap, the raw armor is the new effectiveness cap. For example, a Mage with 3526 armor will yield an effectiveness cap of 6252.833, but since the raw armor is lower, the number we will use for the effectiveness cap is 3526 itself. This prevents a target's armor from being reduced to 0 before the attacker reaches 100% armor penetration.
Step 2: Convert Armor Penetration Rating to a percentage
1000 rating is just an example, for the sake of discussion. Also, note that ArPen Percent is capped at 100%, which occurs at 1400 rating for level 80s.
Step 3: Get the actual armor reduced
Actual armor reduced = Effectiveness Cap * ArPen Percent
Actual armor reduced = 7773.727 * 71.45%
Actual armor reduced = 5554.357 armor reduced
This is the important part. From here, we can see that if the effectiveness cap is lower than the target's armor, then there will always be some armor left, even if the attacker is at 100% Armor Penetration. On the other hand, if the effectiveness cap is higher than the target's armor, then the armor itself is used as the cap - this allows armor to be reduced to 0, but never negative, and always only at 1400 ArPen Rating.
Step 5: Convert Post-ArPen Armor back to damage reduction
Armor DR = Armor / (Armor + (467.5 * AttackerLevel - 22167.5))
Armor DR = 2534.323 / (2534.323 + (467.5 * 80 - 22167.5))
Armor DR = 14.26%
We can therefore conclude that a player with 1000 ArPen Rating will reduce a fully debuffed raid boss' damage reduction from 34.68% to 14.26%. This is equivalent to a 31.26% increase in damage dealt.
At 1400 ArPen Rating, the reduction will go from 34.68% to 2.03%, or an equivalent 50% increase in damage dealt.
As fights on ICC bosses seems to be 5 minutes fights, my MM hunter always seems to end his mana after 3 minutes.
At that point of time, I need to move to "Aspect of the Viper" for 30 seconds, in that period of time, I'm losing a lot of DPS.
Do you have any tips how to maintain the mana level, when we are only facing single boss?
It looks like you aren't specced into Rapid Recuperation, which is a good mana regen talent. With two points in Rapid Killing and chaining double Rapid Fires on every Readiness cooldown, that's (15/3x4%)x2 = 40% of your mana pool back every 3 minutes.
Having in mind, that [Herkuml War Token] is weak for hunters, would you suggest using it instead of [Darkmoon Card: Greatness] (+ agility) . The DPS spreadsheet shows 30dps increase for me but i am not sure that i am using it correctly.
Another graphical effect with using volley is the impact of the distance of the hunter from the volley target.
From the way it looks from the graphics, the farther you are from the volley target, the less time the volley will work
It seems that part of the 5.7 seconds the volley is working is the distance it takes the volley to reach the target.
Therefore if the hunter is far, the distance takes 1.5 seconds, and only 4.2 seconds will the volley works.
If the volley target is nearby, then volley work for a longer time on the target.
Is that only a graphical effect and the distance between the hunter and the target does not affect the volley impact, or is it best practice to perform the volley as close as possible to the target?
No. Volley deals 6 ticks of damage per target per second (modified by haste), regardless of how far away you stand from the target. This can be easily verified on target dummies. The only thing that happens at max range is that the animation and the damage ticks can get out of sync, but that's only a graphical glitch.
Quick question (searched, checked the sticky and the SV thread): should a hunter be concerned about weapon speed like your typical melee dps?
Quick answer; No.
Weapon speed only directly affects your autoshots, and the dps rating of the weapon will be the stat to compare.
More complicated answer; weapon speed only directly affects your autoshots, but indirectly also affects on hit or on damage procs as more autoshots mean more hits and damage dealt more often. So if you have trinkets or set boni that proc on hit without ICD then a faster wepon would be preferable all else being equal. If your procs are on an ICD it will - most likely - not have any effect on the uptime because you hit / deal damage often enough that the slight increase in autoshots won't have any significant impact on uptime.
I'm trying to figure out why Saurfang's Cold-Forged Band (Heroic) is better than Frostbrood Sapphire Ring(264) according to femaledwarf with my current gear set.
Assuming 20 ArP gem in both, the difference in stats going from Frostbrood to Saurfang's is:
-12 agility
+24 AP
-11 stamina
-52 crit
+52 haste
1 agi > 2 AP, so those two differences should be in favor of Frostbrood. Crit > Haste by a longshot, according to the stat value section.
I will venture that you haven't set the default gem to 20ArP, meaning that femaledwarf sees a 20ArP gem in saurfangs and puts something else (worse) the frostbrood ring resulting in a dps loss.
Weapon speed only directly affects your autoshots, and the dps rating of the weapon will be the stat to compare.
More complicated answer; weapon speed only directly affects your autoshots, but indirectly also affects on hit or on damage procs as more autoshots mean more hits and damage dealt more often. So if you have trinkets or set boni that proc on hit without ICD then a faster wepon would be preferable all else being equal. If your procs are on an ICD it will - most likely - not have any effect on the uptime because you hit / deal damage often enough that the slight increase in autoshots won't have any significant impact on uptime.
Actually weapon speed also affects Aimed/Multi and Chimera Shots, and of course Kill Shot. For MM weapon speed is huge, and the reason why the PvP weapons are in fact superior to the PvE weapons for even itemlevel (3.0 vs 2.8). For Survival it is meh, and BM actually has a lot of value from fast weapons (if T10-2 is applied).
Actually weapon speed also affects Aimed/Multi and Chimera Shots, and of course Kill Shot. For MM weapon speed is huge, and the reason why the PvP weapons are in fact superior to the PvE weapons for even itemlevel (3.0 vs 2.8). For Survival it is meh, and BM actually has a lot of value from fast weapons (if T10-2 is applied).
You might be correct, I was under the impression that all our instants were normalized back at 3.0 (or thereabouts, if not before) though?
Actually weapon speed also affects Aimed/Multi and Chimera Shots, and of course Kill Shot.
Aimed Shot and Multi-Shot were normalised to a weapon speed of 2.8 way back in patch 1.10. If that's been reverted (and I can't for the life of me see why it would have been), I missed the memo.
Chimera and Kill Shot weren't around back then, obviously, but given that nearly everything that deals X% of weapon damage is normalised these days, the safe bet is to assume they're normalised to 2.8 speed too unless someone can prove otherwise.
As far as I'm aware, tooltips never mention normalisation, so you can't just read a tooltip that says "deals 125% of weapon damage" and assume that's strictly accurate.
You might be correct, I was under the impression that all our instants were normalized back at 3.0 (or thereabouts, if not before) though?
Most shots were normalized back in Classic, but normalization doesn't equal "same damage regardless of weapon speed". Normalization only effects the contribution a shot gets from our attack power.
For example, Aimed Shot does Ranged Damage + 408. Pre-normalization, Ranged Damage was simply the damage of an auto shot. As you can see, that massively benefitted slow weapons to a point where 3.2 speed rare weapons were significantly more powerful than 2.8 speed epic weapons. What normalization does is calculate the attack power contribution to the ranged damage part as if the weapon was of 2.8 speed. The base weapon damage is unaffected by this, resulting in a small bonus for slower weapons (which naturally have higher average base damage than a faster weapon of the same item level). Because Chimera Shot deals 125% weapon damage, the small but noticable benefit of slow weapons is further amplified.
Fast weapons have their benefits though, especially with % chance procs that don't have an ICD, for example Improved Aspect of the Hawk and especially the 2T10 bonus.
I'm trying to figure out why Saurfang's Cold-Forged Band (Heroic) is better than Frostbrood Sapphire Ring(264) according to femaledwarf with my current gear set.
Assuming 20 ArP gem in both, the difference in stats going from Frostbrood to Saurfang's is:
-12 agility
+24 AP
-11 stamina
-52 crit
+52 haste
1 agi > 2 AP, so those two differences should be in favor of Frostbrood. Crit > Haste by a longshot, according to the stat value section.
Change Saurfang's to Frostbrood and DPS drops 13.19 points.
This suggests that haste is better than crit by quite a margin since the other stat differences all favor Frostbrood.
Any ideas why this might be so, or is there something obvious that I'm missing?
In all likelihood you're using the rotation test mode, and the haste change results in a rotation that squeezes in an extra steady shot or two - adjusting your wait settings will likely toss the rankings for the rings back and forth again. The spreadsheet's rotation test behaves similarly.
Both are technically correct, however whether you'll realize any practical gain from the slight bit of haste is usually very dubious - if the fight goes on for 10 seconds more (or less) than the site/sheet are set to model, the results will be different. If you reset your autoshot timer at some point due to a phase change/resisted FD/stacked chilled to the bone/add out of range/MC, extra shots that you would have gained are likely lost too. And even on a perfect stand and shoot fight, if you're not picking ever GCD in exactly the same way the shot rotation test is picking them (and generally you won't because of varying latency, reapplying SrS, FD, MD) you will generate a different number of shots anyway, so there's no telling whether a small haste delta helped or not.
Most shots were normalized back in Classic, but normalization doesn't equal "same damage regardless of weapon speed". Normalization only effects the contribution a shot gets from our attack power.
<snip>
Do you have a source for that?
I'm asking because what you are saying normalization isn't, is exactly what would be the easiest and most logical way to normalize shots.
Take dps modified by AP, multiply it by 2.8 (or whatever the normalization is/should be) and you have the normalized damage. Add in a variance so the RNG has something to do (and for all the other reasons weapons deal an interval of damage and not a set value).
I don't have a reliable source at hand other than a wowwiki article that isn't exactly up to date, but I believe what I wrote is the "common knowledge" of how normalisation works that is also used in the spreadsheets, Simcraft etc.
02/08/10, 4:34 PM
Unfortunately, I do not know the author's name, but whoever he/she is, should get full credit for it. This helped me to understand the way ArPen works much better.
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