Thanks Mattaos, I have been using those gems and have 3/3 FA. But, from what I'm reading 2 AP > 1 Agi
so is there a point where choosing Agility gems would make more sense? Is there math/a conversion? For the time being I have given up on the Agi gems and only picking it up as a base stat from the gear.

I think the issue is also that the weight of Crit Rating and Attack Power scale differently. At 3000 AP, you may find x amount of Crit Rating < Y amount of AP.
Raid buffed, with new gear, etc at 6000 AP, you might find that same x Crit Rating is now much greater than Y amount of AP.

It's a fluid thing, so you have to just plan around what your raid situations are. What you CAN say is something like (for example):

@ 6000 AP, Crit Rating is of x value to overall dps relative to Some Other Stat.

It's the same issue, I think - The ratios are not static, so you can only say "Well, for my AP of 3000, x amount of crit is a dps gain over y amount of AP". The conversion changes as your stats change.

Also, I thought 3/3 FA was a bad plan since pets don't inherit +hit from talents - only +hit rating? I could be wrong, but I just ended up gemming for the +hit to get close to my cap and skipped on FA.

Pets do benefit from FA. Might be worth updating the first post to explicitly state that.

Where is the analysis that concluded this, or the blue post confirming it? See my recent post in another thread for data to the contrary (to be updated tonight, hopefully, with definitive data either way).

The WWSes have expired, now, but I fairly conclusively proved it in 3.0 with 3% of my hit coming from FA through a full Black Temple + Sunwell run. It's possible 3.0.3 changed it or wrath bosses act differently, I suppose.

I love Kaubel and wish I could be more like him.

To simplify (from a BM PoV), looking to add haste purposely is not as effective as looking to cap hit rating and then looking to stack AP and Crit. Agility of course provides both these stats, but itemization for WotLK so far has given a greater increase in both stats thru gear providing the actual stat. AP gems are currently a better choice at 80 because the AP number is added into an already growing AP amount, where agility is only really providing the AP side with a much greater gap to fill to achieve the crit component respectively (as compared to TBC/level 70). So, 16 Ap/8 crit gem > 16 Agility gem in terms of stat allocation.

The T7 set pieces are a choice amongst a pile of other excellent item options. A BM hunter is mainly going to look to add at least 2pc T7 (5% pet damage increase) and look to add to Ap/Crit where ever they can get it. Haste that is picked up along the way from certian item that have it budgeted on it is only a +DPS gain, but purposely looking to get set pieces for the sake of having a full T7 set isn't wise unless the items are providing more overall benefit vs. supplemented off-set pieces.

The weapon speed (for BM) is a null issue. The DPS of a 2.7 weapon can be the same as a 3.0 weapon, but the DPS is still the same. A BM hunter will already have achieved a 1.5s Steady Shot (as mentioned frequently in this thread), so anything increasing attack speed is a DPS gain thru Auto Shots. Also, Steady Shot was changed and is affected by our AP plus Ammo, so a slower weapon speed makes no difference.

Both Slow and fast weapons have distinct benefits.

Slow Weapons:
>allow multi-shot to hit harder
>consume less ammo over time

Fast Weapons:
>produce more gftt procs

At the end of the day, the choice is still non-existant. Weapon DPS and stats are going to be the determining factors in choosing a ranged weapon. Speed is not a viable consideration anymore.

In PvP a slower weapon may be preferred due to the harder hits and more "burst", but for PvE it's not a concern.

Edit: On the subject of T7, as a BM hunter the two piece is definitely worth obtaining. From what I can tell, the ideal Naxx kit would include the legs and shoulders.

I thought slow weapons were also slightly better for AotV?
And faster weapons also proc Imp. AotH more often.

Not that that changes the fact that speed is only relevant if you have 2 weapons with the exact same dps and stats but with different speeds. (like that's ever going to happen >.>)

The slow weapon under a haste effect might have an advantage over a faster weapon, but if you leave out the haste effect the two weapon options in relation to each other are the same in mana regen.

The odds of 2 weapons with varying speeds having the same stats is pretty much non-existent, but I believe the point being made was that weapon speed is not a concern where added stats from a weapon were. Of course, stat allocation from a weapon is going to be situational for every hunter depending on the stats each hunter needs to increase. So, it is very possible for 2 weapons to have relatively similar stats benefiting the hunter almost equally...at that point choosing one weapon over the other based on weapon speed is pointless.

EDIT: Removed a rhetorical statement

Weapon speed affects the amount of mana you get back per shot with AotV. In the end, the mana per second is equal. Slow weapons return more mana per shot, but fire less shots. Faster weapons return less mana per shot, but fire more shots.

Also, on the note of "what do I do during AotV?": keep spamming steady-shot. This can easily be proven by looking at how much mana you get back from Steady Shot, and how much you spend. SS is a net gain during Viper.

Now, in terms of "should I use Rapid Fire during Viper or not", this is actually a valid question, and I'm working on equations to figure that one out (based on gear stats, mana pool, etc.).

The SS talent is big for BM because it affects your pet as well. Currently, Haste Rating does not transfer to your pet, so this is one of the only ways to increase it's attack speed.

And for MM's, who should all have the 25% mana cost reduction on SS from Master Marksman, SS is an even bigger net gain during Viper.

Well, slow weapons would produce more mana on the basis that while their autos are slower on correspondance to their greater mana gain, the cast shots are equally fast. So the auto-mana is equal, while the Steady-mana is superior.

If we assume 13k mana, BM spec with no passive haste, then a 2.7 weapon will generate 351 mana per shot. A 3.0 weapon would generate 390 mana per shot. The 2.7 weapons shoots at 1.957 seconds + once every 1.5 seconds, the 3.0 shoots at 2.174 + once every 1.5 seconds. Over a minute that's 70.66 and 67.59 shots.
2.7 weapon would generate 24801.66 mana for around 413 mps.
3.0 weapon would generate 26360.1 mana for around 439 mps.

Not really an insignificant difference, but for jumps between weapons within 0.1 speed of each other it is rather poinless. Always go for the better DPS weapon (stats might make lesser weapons equal to better ones, but not like in TBC), just know that Viper is indeed affected by speed. A 2.5 compared to a 3.1 would be felt a fair bit if you had to Viper.

About Rapid Fire... Well, it costs a GCD. So the big question really is, is it worth using during normal situations? Do the 40% more Autos for the duration make up for the lost Steady? This is of course the case for BM, for MM it is a bit more murky especially if IAotH is involved. If it only breaks even more or less, then saving it for Viper seems more logical. You 'save' the mana of the steady (compared to the Rapid Fire cast) and gain more free autos.

Regarding the "/cast !Auto Shot" in the steady shot macro, is this required for spamming? I heard that weaving was built into steady shot these days, Was I lied to? The last thing I want is to miss out on white damage when spamming macros

Someone had noticed some benefit about gems +mp5 in our equip?
Maybe we can take some green gems (cause metasocket query) with Mp5, but I do not see yet any "cap" like "useless mp5 rating/useful mp5 rating".

having some tbc items on me i find it quite hard to reach my hitcap without sacrificing really bad other stats(i can't afford 3 pts in FA also being a bm spec).
here is my question: since we always have at least 1 moonkin and/or 1 sp(and assuming they dont slack and keep the hit debuffs on boss) in 25 men raids do i really the hit cap or should i be ok with only 6% hit? tests so far confirmed my theory (except events with more then 1 lvl 83 mob ofc - gg blizz ty for the new hr food) but i would like feedback from hunters comunity
ty, don

Moonkins' Imp FF doesn't affect physical +hit anymore, only spell hit. Also, for BM I'd simply move points from Mortal Shots to FA, as this talent affect all our dmg (autos+specials+pet - if all testers are correct) instead of steady and kill shot only (Mortal Shots).

Other fast question: [Chaotic Skyflare Diamond] or [Relentless Earthsiege Diamond]?
21 agility means 0.25% crit and 21 ap ofc.

This line is usually included to force the auto shooting to start. If it isn't included, the auto shooting will only start after the steady shot has fired. This is of course moot if you open with an instant like serpent sting, and it's also mention in the first post. It won't mess with auto shots further down the road.

I fail to see why a 16 AP/8 crit rating gem will be better than a 16 agi gem.

Calculating with the numbers from whitetooth (http://elitistjerks.com/f31/t29453-c...gs_level_80_a/) I get the following result:

16 AP/8 crit rating gem will give me 16 AP (obviously) and 0.174% crit.
A 16 agi gem will give me 16 AP and 0.192% crit (calculation as BM).

From the raw benefit alone the 16 agi gem is better, and it gets even better when you get BoK.

Can you explain why the mixed AP/crit rating gem is better? Any information/explanation is appreciated.

Depends on socket color. If it's yellow the ap/crit gem works for the socket bonus. If it's red, you'd put the 32 atk power gem in anyways.