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Spec
Most marks builds are 7/57/7, and have this as a base. That leaves 6 points to spread around. A standard usage of these points could look like this, maxing out improved arcane shot and steady shot. After a hunter reaches a certain level of gear, however, they can squeeze a little more non-moving DPS by swapping the points in improved arcane shot to something else and taking arcane shot out of their rotation.

For hunters who want to use armor penetration instead of agility, typically improved arcane shot will be dropped completely in favor of some points spent in focused aim. That would mean only including arcane shot in your rotation when you have a magic damage buff or are moving.

Glyphs
There are a wide variety of glyphs that can be used, however some are clearly best in class. On that list are:
-glyph of serpent sting
-glyph of chimera shot

The others that are popular are aimed shot, steady shot, hunter's mark (if you drew the short straw), kill shot, and sometime the hawk (if you're below the haste cap).

For minor glyphs, the only two that have an effect on raiding are mend pet and feign death.

Rotation
If you're the hunter who had to take improved hunter's mark and/or the hunter's mark glyph, make sure it's on the target before the fight starts. Be aware that non-improved marks overwrite improved marks (as of 3.1). Coordinate with your fellow hunters to ensure that they don't overwrite your marks.

Open with serpent sting, then kill shot > chimera shot > aimed shot > arcane shot > steady shot. Chimera shot will refresh your sting, so only ever cast another serpent sting if the first one falls off or you change targets.

Chimera shot is a subject of many questions- the way it works is simple. It does nature damage, of which a large portion is based on your serpent sting. It is not based on the amount of damage done by the sting so far, but on the amount of damage the sting would do over it's natural life span. That's why the glyph of serpent sting is the most DPS- by increasing the duration of your serpent sting from 5 ticks to 7, you increase the serpent sting portion of the chimera shot damage by 40%.

Armor penetration
Armor pen has been shown to generate some enormous numbers on the spreadsheet. This is because it scales exponentially, and the DPS per itemization point will go up as you get more. If you are trying to build an armor penetration setup, you will need an armor penetration trinket such as the mjolnir runestone or the grim toll. Your passive armor pen (without the proc) should not exceed 566 if you have the runestone or 619 if you have the grim toll. Any more than that, and your trinket procs will raise you past the hard armor penetration cap. This setup will change your spec and rotation. Your spec should reflect the fact that you no longer cast arcane shot while standing still.

Be aware that while building an armor penetration setup will have a higher maximum DPS in ideal (Patchwerk type) circumstances, armor penetration only increases auto-shot, steady shot, aimed shot, and kill shot damage. Having to move will cost you auto-shot and steady shot damage, which is a large portion of your DPS. One tactic that can mitigate some of this is to stutter your run when you have to move, letting go of the run key for just long enough that an auto-shot goes off.

 

Whitemane

Do you guys keep using chimera shot during aotv to keep serpent sting up or do you re-apply it once you leave aotv? On bosses with mana I've begun doing a viper -> chimera -> serpent rotation when viper sting is up, that'd be every second chimera cd. Seems worth it, your experiences?

 

Laertis

as i try to apply serpent sting when my attack power is the highest i try to keep it up with chimera even if i change over to aspect of the viper.

 

Whitemane

Viper -> Chimera -> Serpent is a 2k mana gain though and will extend the periods between aotv greatly.

 

Renato

How do you guys feel about PVE specs as a Marksman Hunter? While dabbling around with the MMO-Champion talent/glyph calculator I came up with this build:

http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?hunt...h=131118040506

I know you can remove a point from scatter shot and put it into something such as efficiency, so for the sake of perfection we can assume it is there.

What I want to bring up is as a marksman hunter I personally don't see the advantage in devoting 3 more points into the beast mastery's second/first tier just to get the 1 point Aspect Mastery talent. Personally, I found it a lot more beneficial to take those potential 4 points and spend them into Improved Hunter's Mark, which provides the same attack power bonus without even taking into account the minor glyph.

I am not 100% sure on how often, if ever, aimed shot will be used during PVE boss fights, so I tried to keep it out of focus as a main shot. My only problem with this build as I see it is the lack of Efficiency. You may be able to move a couple things around to put a couple points into it.

http://armory.mmo-champion.com.nyud....&s5=MP%2F5&v=2

 

Whitemane

You picked 3 x Hawkeye and 1 x Scattershot for a total of 4 points, instead of picking up 2 x Improved Revive Pet, 1 x Endurance Training and 1 x Aspect Mastery. Excuse me, but what in the world are you thinking? Those 4 points do _nothing_ for you in raids, while on the other hand revive pet and Aspect Mastery will do plenty for you.

And why didn't you pick go for the throat? A solid talent really, crit on any ranged and your pet gets 125% of the focus required for its focus dump. That's dps contribution right there.

Also, piercing shots is generally considered a crappy talent - armor penetration does not do much for your dps ever since it got changed to %, which this talent is.

Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft

If I were you, I'd go with something like this; a build like this was linked in the locked marksman thread. Perhaps you should go check that out.

 

clegg

im posting this here again because it seems more relevant in this section.


i have tried searching the forums is anyone has experienced this, but to no avail. I am currently MM specced since wotlk and i am having trouble with pet aggro, i have ensured cower is off (its on my pet bar) but my pets just cant keep aggro. even autoshooting gets things on my face in 2-3 shots. i have researched about the pet specs and they seem to be in line with the majority.

I have tried, wolf, scorpion and boar (all same level as me) but nothing has helped yet. anything i am missing? or is this a general issue with MM ?

its working fine with MD but its kinda costly using MD for every pull while doing quest solo for leveling =)

 

Ingmar

Viper sting costs 8% of base mana, chimera is 16% of base mana and you'll have to re-apply serpent for your steady shots, 9% base mana.

Now, according to wowwiki, hunter base mana at 80 is 5046. Now, to do the rotation you proposed you'll be using up 24% base mana, and 33% if you count getting serpent up again (not even counting loss of DPS because of GCD costs and the loss on steady shot dmg while vipersting is on rather than serpent).

24% of 5046 = 1205 mana
33% of 5046 = 1665 mana

So, the 2k mana gain is nearly used up by performing viper+chimera+serpent and will cost you 3 GCD's. My guess is that this won't be worth it. If you pick efficiency the mana costs will ofcourse go down, but even then the gain is minimal compared to the loss of GCD's.

It takes skill if it's my class. The guy I am playing against on the other hand is a faceroller. Now when I am facerolling, that's my skill you're seeing.

 

Tapout

Its just a part of being MM. Even though Growl is affected by the Hunter's RAP, your pet is still doing FAR less damage than the pet of a BM hunter, and you yourself are doing far more. Even my gorilla (who I would have to blow cooldowns to pull off of as BM) has trouble holding aggro for me as MM. But on the bright side, when you do pull a mob off your pet you have enough burst and/or kiting capability to destroy a mob before it gets into your melee range. The only significant downside to MM over BM is I can't solo group quests anymore.

 

Whitemane

You were going to have used the chimera shot anyway in your normal rotation, so you only use 17% base mana on this move outside of your normal rotation. Also the serpent part of chimera is only approx 1/3 of chimera shots damage.

 

Dibbler

Has anyone confirmed if the [Glyph of Serpent Sting] increases the damage output of your sting if it's refreshed by Chimera Shot?

 

Relin

What's the general shot rotation for MMs at the moment? I've been doing Steady, Serpent, Chimera, and Aimed in no particular order

 

Elendril

I was using Aimed, but it's actually unclear to me that Aimed is worth using at all. I think it might be correct just to Serpent to start the fight then Steady forever and Chimera on cooldown. You get the most use out of your Improved Steady shot by firing more Steadies and always having them hit Chimera shot. Your mana consumption is lower (even with the Aimed Shot glyph - 5% of base mana vs. 8% of base mana (-20%), meaning less time in Viper. I'm not sure what the impact of the 10% crit from Glyph of Trueshot would be on the comparison, or the benefit from having other Glyphs over Trueshot/Aimed Shot would be. I also have the anectodal feeling that Aimed Shot *seems* to still interrupt my auto shot because I don't notice them ever firing simultaneously like I do with steady shot, but that's not something I can ascertain for sure.

 

Crackseed

Just a note on the MM soloing with a pet and pulling aggro - I generally find with MD's super quick cooldown if you really want to ensure the pet sticks better to your target, just MD it and unload - since MM is pretty damn bursty with good gear at 80 you can help frontload your pet's aggro hold on a more resilient target. Obviously not too handy for standard quest mobs, but again - it helps. Especially if you have a macro that fires off MD on your pet w/o having to select, blah blah.

I've been able to solo just about every group quest save for the Onslaught Harbor end chain so far - if my pet doesn't hold up, I generally go to the kiting game since MM is still the best kite spec IMO and usually beat down the mob before I exhaust my mana, or it's slow enough I frost trap kite and viper for just a bit to finish it off.

I really want to use Aimed Shot for raiding for more variety, but it really does seem for both efficient mana use and good use of Imp Steady, we really are locked into the Serpent | Chimera | Steady rotation overall. I make liberal use of Aimed Shot and Arcane if in a mobile fight of course, but when able to stand still and unload, I roll back to the steady spam.

Now if someone on my server would just find the TSA glyph to see if the 10% extra crit pushes Aimed into "Yes - use for raiding rotation!" category >.>

 

Stutters

Well I've been playing around with MM and I have a few questions that are specific to it so wondering if anyone has any suggestions.

Right now for raiding I'm using 11/51/5 (Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft) and I'm torn on which last talents to get. I've narrowed it down to Wild Quiver, Rapid Recuperation or Improved Stings, however at the moment I don't have the time to take each out to a dummy and blast it for 10-15 minutes. I was personally thinking 3/3 Imp Stings (if it affects Chimera Damage) and 1/3 Wild Quiver, but you guys would know better than I would. Any thoughts or am I just so far off basis on my spec I should start from scratch?

 

Azuol

Stutters you would be better off if you switched up some of your talents in the MM tree and added 4 into BM.

Raiding MM spec

15/51/5 build is a general raiding spec for MM. Efficiency and Rapid Recuperation are not really worth putting points into for raids. I raid 25 mans with no mana issues at all save for a few bosses, and Viper for a couple secs fixes that. Imp Stings is essential for MM since Serpent will never fall if you pop Chimera every CD. Rapid recuperation is not as good as 4/5 Unleashed Fury. Even as MM your pet is still a good part of your dps. Generally your pet will be at least 20% of your dmg if not more. I have seen him remain around 25-28% of my dmg.

Hope this helps with your point allocation in a MM raiding build.

 

Osse

5/5 unleashed fury is better than 5/5 imp tracking as well.

 

dssurge

To touch on a few subjects brought up so far:

AotV Serpent Maintenance:
Chim Shots during AotV should always be done in AotH by swapping out and immediatly back in. This will become far less problematic as you get a larger mana pool for it takes less AotV time to generate enough mana to throw a Chim shot. This should be done unquestionably if you have an Imp. SS proc active. Theres no reason to throw damage way on your single 10-sec CD nuke.

Shot Rotation:
Chimera -> 6x Steady Shot. Go for 7 if you can safely do it. Latency, haste from gear, Hawk Procs, etc. will determine this.
Weave Aimed Shot immediately after Chimera shot on movement fights, burst situations, or fights you simply don't need to worry about mana on. With Barrage, Aimed will crit *significantly* higher than Steady Shot.


Spec stuff:
The marks spec I've been using lately is: Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft

It's a bit lower DPS, but any time you need to use Volley it's a rape machine. I regularly see 3300+ Volley crits on encounters with AOE components and I find the points in Barrage far more beneficial than Wild Quiver. It also allows you to more effectively use Aimed shot for movement fights. Silencing Shot has also found it's way into my heart even though it's GCD limited and has few actual uses in the raiding world.

Popping points out of Efficiency and Silencing Shot will yield you a bit more DPS in either Imp. HM or Imp. Tracking but I really find Imp. Tracking chunky due to the GCD use. Imp Tracking will invariably net you the most additional damage per point though.

 

Rathenel

11/55/5

This is the talent spec I've been using when hit-capped for Marksmanship. I've been tempted to drop the 1 point in Improved Barrage into Aimed Shot, but I've yet to see a situation where Aimed Shot out performs Steady Shot in terms of Mana per Damage. With a Retribution Paladin around that can Seal Twist, I've also had 0 need for AotV in Raids.

 

Lerastes

FYI, no such thing as Seal Twisting anymore. Read up on the new Seal/Judgement system.

 

Rathenel

Lerastes:

I have read up on it, yet with a single Paladin in Raid we've often got multiple Seals on the same Paladin. Whether this is a server side latency issue or some other issue, I can't really say. His Judgement is almost always Wisdom, because we run Mana User Heavy 10 Mans.

 

Spatrick

I tried a couple of the different MM specs because I really wanted to go back to MM after all this time. What I realized quickly is you can do excellent dps. However, you are drinking after every pull.


Like most, my guild tends to blow through the trash in heroics and 10mans and I just can't compete with BM hunters bc they are always dpsing the next set of adds while im drinking or I'm in viper trying to keep up but we all know how that kills dps.

I am expecting that mana is not so much an issue in 25mans so I am considerng going back to MM (15/51/5) for our first 25man Naxx tonight

Anyone have a wws that also includes a BM hunter? Just wondering how much better dps does a BM hunter do in 25 mans compared to MM?

 

Azuol

Spatrick that all really depends on gear atm since you said its your first 25 man Naxx. I am MM and I beat everyone including BM hunters but those hunters are not as geared as I am either. From pure dps fights like patchwerk I can say that an equally geared BM hunter would start to edge me out. In 25 mans all the buffs your pet gets make him insanely powerful. An under geared BM hunter on Four Horsemen pulled a total 4200 dps with his pet doing about 2500 of that 4200. So as you can see pets make or break you since they are easily 50% of your dmg and in some cases more.

All in all the Dps difference between equally geared MM and BM hunters will not be that significant imo. From what I have seen in raids between other hunters that are closely geared BM beats MM by less than 200 DPS in most cases.

So play what makes you happy since there isn't a big difference. After all it is a game.

 

Nyutu

like you guys I am trying to find a cookie cutter build for mm for my naxx 10 and malygos raid, but it has been such a difficult quest.

Right now I am trying 16/53/2 with not bad results.

But I have some questions I would like to know because the spreadsheet doesnt answer me those with much accuracy.

Is wild quiver a great dps increase? comparable to what? because I havent used it a lot yet.
Does Unleashed fury give great reward? because it takes out a lot of possibilitys from the mm and surv trees.


thanks in advance

 

Tapout

If that's true would something like this do well? I like having Imp. Tracking and Survival instincts, but even as MM my pet is doing ~15% of my damage. A 20% boost to that is pretty significant. Imp. Tracking also doesn't effect Serpent Sting. While that's not exactly a huge part of our DPS, it might make the talent a little more desirable.