The effects the patch notes refer to are percent damage modifiers like the 3% from a Retadin, BM hunter or mage which already affect the attacks that trigger PS and DW. If the bleedings were affected by these they would double dip. The 30% bleeding debuff is different since it only affects bleedings and it affects both PS and DW.
My macro is similar but I instead use the actual tank's name. The problem is inherent to the first shot starting the timer, but not actually transferring any threat. Since the adds are always coming from behind you, you have to turn. Since you are moving slightly you do not get any auto shots. What I had to do was make a choice, either stop moving so I can get an instant and auto shot on my add or save two instants (Arcane, GCD, Aimed for example). Either way takes more time to cleanly get the misdirection. You also have to break off Anub much earlier then before 3.3 to account for this extra time to activate the MD.
I experienced MD failure numerous times fighting LD tonight. I use a simple MD to focus macro, was standing still, facing the adds, and repeatedly had the adds (or add) run right over the tank and come straight for me. Similar experiences with loose adds ignoring MD and being very difficult to corral. Anyone else? Wondering if this is specific to MM or if the other trees are also seeing it?
I think it just feels like MD isn't going on right away, because the buff and animation do not start until the first shot lands. To test if MD was redirecting all threat I simply MD'd my pet on some regular world mobs while it was on passive. Sure enough, all threat, even that first hit was re-directed to my pet.
I experienced MD failure numerous times fighting LD tonight. I use a simple MD to focus macro, was standing still, facing the adds, and repeatedly had the adds (or add) run right over the tank and come straight for me. Similar experiences with loose adds ignoring MD and being very difficult to corral. Anyone else? Wondering if this is specific to MM or if the other trees are also seeing it?
Raiding as MM with two other hunters that are MM and we've seen MD fail multiple times. It's most noticeable on adds on H Anub. We were experimenting with Earth, Wind & Fire, I was in the Archavon spot, MD'ing to a tank a bit down the hallway and had MD totally fail on me twice. I can't think of a cleaner setup than sitting there, putting up MD, attacking and having Archavon bee-line for me.
I am trying out MM after being Surv since they killed BM. I have a question regarding the use of Grim Toll.
I currently have 809 passive armor pen; I am using Agi gems at the moment. I also have Deathbringer's Will and Whispering Fanged Skull. With these 2 great trinkets, is it worth using Grim Toll over one of them still for the ArP proc?
Raiding as MM with two other hunters that are MM and we've seen MD fail multiple times. It's most noticeable on adds on H Anub. We were experimenting with Earth, Wind & Fire, I was in the Archavon spot, MD'ing to a tank a bit down the hallway and had MD totally fail on me twice. I can't think of a cleaner setup than sitting there, putting up MD, attacking and having Archavon bee-line for me.
That's a pretty long distance, especially now that the hallway is longer. Is it possible the tank was out of range of Archavon at the time you pulled? Even if he was within 100 yards of you, he may not have been within 100 yards of Archavon.
Is there any buff/debuff thats essential to MM spec, while not being so important to surv hunter? I can't figure out why some nights i'm higher then fellow surv hunter, and some nights surv beats me. The gap is around 500-600 dps, so it's hardly a RNG issue.
Northrend Beasts, we had no CoE effect on target when i was better with DPS, maybe it's not affecting Chim shot at all? Comparing two fights with Lord J i'm seeing 3702 avg hit with CoE effect, and 3760 without. Avg crits are: 9577 without and 9873 with CoE effect.
However, ES of Surv Hunter is scoring 2519 avg. hit and 6013 avg crit with CoE, and 2221 avg hit and 5402 avg crit without - that's quite a gap.
So, i suspect that +13% element dmg debuff only buffs ES, while not affecting Chim Shot. Spreadsheet is telling me that CoE buffs Chim, while i cant's see that happening.
Northrend Beasts, we had no CoE effect on target when i was better with DPS, maybe it's not affecting Chim shot at all? Comparing two fights with Lord J i'm seeing 3702 avg hit with CoE effect, and 3760 without. Avg crits are: 9577 without and 9873 with CoE effect.
However, ES of Surv Hunter is scoring 2519 avg. hit and 6013 avg crit with CoE, and 2221 avg hit and 5402 avg crit without - that's quite a gap.
So, i suspect that +13% element dmg debuff only buffs ES, while not affecting Chim Shot. Spreadsheet is telling me that CoE buffs Chim, while i cant's see that happening.
Is it possible that SS gets the 13% bonus only if applied after CoE is up? And that Chimera doesn't in essence double dip from the 13%? I could see you leading off the fight with a SS before the 10% debuff is up accidentally and rolling that one the entire fight if you weren't on add/portal/volcano duty. Not likely I know, but I'm just brainstorming trying to help you find the gap.
Well, i was comparing first hit of Chim Shot, and it's independant from SS, while being nature damage and thus, theoreticly, it should also get buffed by CoE, while on practice i really can't see that.
In these two fights i'm comparing, SS got buffed by CoE (760 tick w/o CoE, 859 with it), however second part of Chim Shot remained, weirdly, the same - 2270 avg hit w/o CoE and 2260 avg hit with it. It really looks like Chim shot is getting nothing from CoE.
I've been having md problems as well in mm. Earlier in this thread, it talked about possible wild quiver causing the problem. I ran Anub without wild quiver, and then deceided to go BM, as I spend so much time misdirecting or bringing down frost, tranq shotting, and then keeping aimed up, I wasn't doing a whole lot of dps, I deceided to have my pet do it. I wish I could tell you without a doubt that it is wild quiver, but I think we're still figuring this out.
Maybe I am not understanding the new mechanics of misdirection. Someone was refering to issues with moving and the first shots. What does this have to do with the debuff?
Wild Quiver can't really be a problem anymore, because the new MD doesn't have a fixed amount of charges, but it redirects ALL your threat for 4s after you do something that causes threat. So if you cast MD and do nothing for 20s and than start shooting and you shoot SrS+CS+AS+2x Auto Shot + Wild Quiver + Zod's Quick Shot - it's ok, because the threat of all this shots is misdirected. Problems might occur, e.g. if you cast MD, your SrS on the boss ticks and you start shooting at the add 4s later, because then the effect should be used up already.
I did some basic starter testing of CoE effecting/unaffecting CS and SS damage - unequipped all gear that can proc, got a warlock in the party and damaged training dummy for ~10 min. All that time Curse of Elements was up. I then screencapped all the needed data, left the party and shot the dummy again, this time without any debuffs on target. I arranged screenshot in 1, here's the link: http://img51.imageshack.us/img51/158/coe.jpg Had to do the cropping to make more understandable to you, as i play on russian realms.
What that test tells me - CoE is not increasing damage from CS, and maybe even from SS. More testing should be done, i will focus on getting that x-bow with29-29 damage, but that's quite a major bug - spreadsheet assumes that CoE buffs MM, when i remove it from debuffs - i lose around 400 dps. If CoE (and Black Plague/Earth and Moon) isn't affecting CS - all the spreadsheet calculations are somewhat wrong.
That's rather alarming, please report it on the EU bug forums - someone will need to repeat the tests to post them on the US ones since I don't think the Russian is helping all that much for clarity at this end.
12/23/09, 1:50 AM
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