I would have to agree, spending three points in Imp AS over six point for Barrage & Imp. Barrage yields much better results on live ATM. Arcane Shot will regularly crit from 4.5k - 5.5k when raid buffed which is pretty exceptional. I am looking foward to the reduce mana cost to Arcane Shot, however I really wish we could get a reduction to the mana cost of Chimera Shot, ATM, it has a mana cost never double of Explosive Shot, live and PTR.
I thought that the 15% damage from imp arcane only applied to the base damage, and not the contribution it receives from AP. It seems like that would make for a fairly lackluster increase in damage. Am I mistaken on how this talent works?
ok, ive read most of this thread and forgive me if im blind and missed this topic being addressed....and pardon the
my question involves gear itemization. in particular when it comes to haste and arm pen. i think at this point im pretty solid in terms of when to use what abilities, but when it comes to gear selection i have to admit im still confused. just how much do i want to be investing into haste and arm pen? or should i be prioritizing them over say crit or AP. seems like a lot of the mail gear in game at the moment has haste on it. is there a limit to how much i want? my understanding was that it messed with shot rotations and caused mana to be burned to quickly to be something you REALLY wanted (at least in BC).
also if anyone can give me a breakdown of how i should prioritize gem stats that would be greatly appreciated (in general)
ok, ive read most of this thread and forgive me if im blind and missed this topic being addressed....and pardon the
my question involves gear itemization. in particular when it comes to haste and arm pen. i think at this point im pretty solid in terms of when to use what abilities, but when it comes to gear selection i have to admit im still confused. just how much do i want to be investing into haste and arm pen? or should i be prioritizing them over say crit or AP. seems like a lot of the mail gear in game at the moment has haste on it. is there a limit to how much i want? my understanding was that it messed with shot rotations and caused mana to be burned to quickly to be something you REALLY wanted (at least in BC).
also if anyone can give me a breakdown of how i should prioritize gem stats that would be greatly appreciated (in general)
These are all questions you should answer for yourself with the spreadsheet. There is never a golden plateau of any particular stat you can reach; it's all extremely variable depending on your other gear, and your talent spec, and your glyphs.
ok, ive read most of this thread and forgive me if im blind and missed this topic being addressed....and pardon the
my question involves gear itemization. in particular when it comes to haste and arm pen. i think at this point im pretty solid in terms of when to use what abilities, but when it comes to gear selection i have to admit im still confused. just how much do i want to be investing into haste and arm pen? or should i be prioritizing them over say crit or AP. seems like a lot of the mail gear in game at the moment has haste on it. is there a limit to how much i want? my understanding was that it messed with shot rotations and caused mana to be burned to quickly to be something you REALLY wanted (at least in BC).
also if anyone can give me a breakdown of how i should prioritize gem stats that would be greatly appreciated (in general)
For MM, and I think this applies mostly to MM, since we do not need to crit in order to proc off other skills to upkeep dps, I work under the impression that haste is > than everything but to hit, since it affects both SS and auto shot. The auto shot part of it is greatly under appreciated for the times you need to go viper. Another thing to keep in mind, our auto shots will average out more damage than the other 2 builds. the way I went about was get hit capped, get my tool tip crit rating into the mid 30s, enough attack power to get around 3.2-3.5k self buffed, and then I would take haste over atk pwr or crit, as long as things were similar. I would not take 40 haste over 20 crit and 35 atk pwr, for example, but will take 40 haste over 20 crit and 25 atk pwr.
Armor rating is a funky thing, that I have looked at from time to time, but never truly spent the time that I should. My understating is that is that the more you have it, the more effective it becames, since the greater the armor reduction, the greater the effect is on mitigation, in other words, it scales upwards, in a similar way that a tank's armor scale upwards, even when at first it looks like diminishing returns. If my memory does not fail me, 140 armor penetration rating will get you about 9% in increased physical damage. Again, I am not expert on the subject at all, and could very well be 100% wrong. In the end, I do not think its something you want to target when thinking about gear, unless the 2 items are really close in the other stats, or if you are hit capped and another gear will offer ArP instead of hit, then it's a no brainer for a MM.
No matter what the outcome is, keep in mind 2 things, both haste and ArP do not increase your pet's dps, and although MMs represent the bulk of their own damage, sometimes (actually a lot of times) 1% increase of our own dps < 3-4% pet dps, so keep that in mind
I have seen a lot of discussion in this thread about the addon that was in development to alert you when its the best time to fire off your serpent sting and benefit from AP buffs which tie into the sting.
I would like to inform those who haven't see it of a UI mod called Power Auras. Search for it on wowinterface.com. It allows you to display graphics above or beside your character when you take on certain buffs or status effects. It's incredibly versatile and powerful. You could easily tell this mod to give you one buff icon when your trinket procs, like a sword, and another buff icon when your 2nd trinket procs, like a dagger. Just an example. When I say buff icon what I mean is a graphical display above or near your character on the screen. Just like the graphics blizz codes in but is too lazy or too busy to give to certain talents, trinkets (Lock and Load is a prime example).
Anyway, try Power Auras out. It should help you never miss an opportunity to apply a powerful AP'ed up SS.
I was using Aimed, but it's actually unclear to me that Aimed is worth using at all. I think it might be correct just to Serpent to start the fight then Steady forever and Chimera on cooldown. You get the most use out of your Improved Steady shot by firing more Steadies and always having them hit Chimera shot. Your mana consumption is lower (even with the Aimed Shot glyph - 5% of base mana vs. 8% of base mana (-20%), meaning less time in Viper. I'm not sure what the impact of the 10% crit from Glyph of Trueshot would be on the comparison, or the benefit from having other Glyphs over Trueshot/Aimed Shot would be. I also have the anectodal feeling that Aimed Shot *seems* to still interrupt my auto shot because I don't notice them ever firing simultaneously like I do with steady shot, but that's not something I can ascertain for sure.
On a note to this, steady shot dmg is getting decreased in 3.0.8, so as of the new patch, Aimed shot is worth it... usually what I do is Aimed shot misdirect to start the fight, serpent sting, steady shot through until aimed shot is ready. then it is just an Aimed shot, Chimera shot, Steady shot x3 (or 4 can't remember, just until aimed shot is cooled down)
I would not post here if I did not test this myself on actual mobs: I also make sure to switch off any addons that might interfere with my combat log. I did not test this with removing points out of Improved Tracking, then gradually adding points and comparing the damage difference when tracking or not however, which would be the final thing to check to make it definite. But the difference in numbers is exactly 4% and I have 4/5 Impr. Tracking right now.
00:25'18.656 Vitaropago gains Track Beasts.
00:25'21.484 Reanimated Crusader is afflicted by Serpent Sting.
00:25'24.812 Reanimated Crusader suffers 536 Nature damage from Vitaropago Serpent Sting.
00:25'31.671 Vitaropago gains Track Undead.
00:25'34.734 Reanimated Crusader is afflicted by Serpent Sting.
00:25'37.890 Reanimated Crusader suffers 557 Nature damage from Vitaropago Serpent Sting.
How does this work concidering IMPR. Tracking is only for non-periodic damage?
In addition to no longer requiring active tracking to match the type of the current target, Improved Tracking is no longer restricted to "non-periodic" hunter damage on the PTR. Currently Serpent Sting damage is increased against trackable targets when you have a tracking type enabled.
This should increase the valuation of the talent slightly.
With "currently" Blizz means post-patch: My post (quoted above) was to prove that this already is the case on Live - and very likely has been the case since 3.0.
On the Serpent Sting addon: I've abandoned developing it further as calculating/predicting the Serpent Sting tick is too complex for me alone to sort out. One page earlier I posted the formula I have come up with so far.
If you are still interested in knowing when to refresh Serpent Sting I advise you to simply use what Arkas has suggested: Power Auras; it can tell you when trinkets proc (which is the most important thing to know).
you could make the addon so, that it will read the 'normal' ar.
then in the raid it checks all 3 sec for how many ar you have - when it is more because of a trinket the addon announces this...
Does anybody fully understand the implications of a reduction in SteadyShot damage and Arcane Shot mana cost for MM builds?
I am referring to those MM hunters whose builds and tactics are SS centric:
- improved Steadyshot
- Glyph of Steady Shot
- Steady Shot rotation, i.e. Serpent > Chimera > Steady Shot until Chimera is up again
- Master Marksman (this now seems to be a much weakened talent because mana reduction is applied to a shot that will be a last resort)
- to a lesser extent Marked for Death
The threads I've read on Elitist Jerks and the US forums all point to a new style of play for MM hunters, i.e. you will end up spamming whatever shot is available, only using SS as a last resort.
Whilst I don't mind adapting to a change of play tactics does this mean that all the Steadyshot centred choices listed above need to be abandoned?
If so, then what new tactics and builds for MM hunters would you reccommend?
For example, should I remove the points from Improved Steady Shot and fillers, say Efficiency, and put them into both Barrage Talents? Would you change the Steady Shot glyph to the Aspect of the Hawk glyph?
Out of two mana bars, and around 200 shots. I used [Hunter's Mark] > [Serpent Sting] > [Chimera Shot] > [Steady Shot] > {Chimera on CD}. When [Lock and Load] would proc, I would throw in two [Arcane Shot]'s and back to my rotation. Out of the 200 shots, I missed two auto shots.
My GM told me that if I'm not top 5 dps I will have to respec into bm, which would tick me off considering I just spent my dkp trying to get haste capped.
What am I doing wrong?
Also, I've read in misc. places that there are some useless talents in the MM tree. Which talents are offically not worth it, and how would you spec to get down the tier without getting some useless talents?
Out of two mana bars, and around 200 shots. I used [Hunter's Mark] > [Serpent Sting] > [Chimera Shot] > [Steady Shot] > {Chimera on CD}. When [Lock and Load] would proc, I would throw in two [Arcane Shot]'s and back to my rotation. Out of the 200 shots, I missed two auto shots.
My GM told me that if I'm not top 5 dps I will have to respec into bm, which would tick me off considering I just spent my dkp trying to get haste capped.
What am I doing wrong?
Also, I've read in misc. places that there are some useless talents in the MM tree. Which talents are offically not worth it, and how would you spec to get down the tier without getting some useless talents?
The spec you chose is very poor for DPS. You didn't pick up Improved Aspect of the Hawk, Focused Fire, Aspect Mastery, or Unleashed Rage. Aimed Shot is also not necessary, and you have too many talents in Survlval. Your DPS will go up quite a bit if you change to this.
You'll have slightly better DPS if you drop Rapid Recuperation for 2 points in Improved Steady Shot, but I take RR as MM too for soloing so I can't preach on that.
You're also 2% off from the hit cap, and your pet is off 5%. Drop the crit yellow gems for hit and the orange for agi/hit.
But are you accounting for the fact that Improved Steady Shot also represents close to 171 mana/5, or close to 2k mana per minute.
That helps ensure less Viper time and hopefully no Viper time ideally.
The talent's effects will be diminished once the patch goes live and Steady Shot isn't used every single GCD other than Chimera, but still I think you see what I'm saying.
Where do you get 171 mp5? Chimera is 807 mana. 807*.2 = 161.4.
So if we use live mechanics, ~55% of Chimera's are 'improved' with 3/3. .55*161.4 = 88.77
88.77 / 2 = 44.385
44.385 / 3 = 14.795 MP5 per talent point
This is obviously much worse on PTR where Arcane/Aimed Shots are eating up the charges.
Out of two mana bars, and around 200 shots. I used [Hunter's Mark] > [Serpent Sting] > [Chimera Shot] > [Steady Shot] > {Chimera on CD}. When [Lock and Load] would proc, I would throw in two [Arcane Shot]'s and back to my rotation. Out of the 200 shots, I missed two auto shots.
My GM told me that if I'm not top 5 dps I will have to respec into bm, which would tick me off considering I just spent my dkp trying to get haste capped.
What am I doing wrong?
Also, I've read in misc. places that there are some useless talents in the MM tree. Which talents are offically not worth it, and how would you spec to get down the tier without getting some useless talents?
Chimera + Lock and Load is more of a PvP spec right now. Put 11+ into BM and only 7 into Survival and just spam Steady Shot unless Chimera is up.
You're also 2% off from the hit cap, and your pet is off 5%. Drop the crit yellow gems for hit and the orange for agi/hit.
What is your pet and glyphs?
I was under the impression that the hunter hit % was determined to be 8% or did they test and conclude it is 9%. Currently I'm using my bm glyphs, I didn't see much use in re-glyphing myself if my dps isn't worth while to begin with, soon as I get logged in I will edit this post with the new spec dps.
About 200 arrows later, and 2 mana bars. ?? Target dummy. I left the 4 points out of unleashed rage because we are trying the 4 spark strat on malygos and my raid leader has asked me to pick up entrapment, I'm waiting to find out what he wants me to do.
I was under the impression that the hunter hit % was determined to be 8% or did they test and conclude it is 9%. Currently I'm using my bm glyphs, I didn't see much use in re-glyphing myself if my dps isn't worth while to begin with, soon as I get logged in I will edit this post with the new spec dps.
The test suggest 8%, but your hit rating is only 101, which is 3%. Even with 3/3 FA you're still only at 6%, which is 2% under the cap.
You're only gimping yourself if you don't glyph properly.
e: Proper glyphs won't make as big a difference as a proper spec, but high dps is the sum of many smaller parts.
<Blackpatch>: i feel so bad for north koreans
<Blackpatch>: imagine
<Blackpatch>: there are kids living 30 miles north of seoul
<Blackpatch>: who have never heard of banelings
<Bryne>: monkeys only throw shit everywhere because they're smart enough to realize: EVERYONE HATES SHIT
4% + 3/3 FA is still 1% short. Hit capped should be your priority in gemming/enchanting.
<Blackpatch>: i feel so bad for north koreans
<Blackpatch>: imagine
<Blackpatch>: there are kids living 30 miles north of seoul
<Blackpatch>: who have never heard of banelings
<Bryne>: monkeys only throw shit everywhere because they're smart enough to realize: EVERYONE HATES SHIT
I updated my HR, I had forgotten I was mining and wore my engineer helm to see the clouds. I'm at 4% now, and have also updating my previous post.
It´d still put you 1% below the cap, which isn´t a lot but might make the difference between a Chimera Shot keeping up a Spark boosted Serpent Sting or it dropping. Your pet is also still way below the cap, which will affect it´s dps, especially if you´re using a Scorpid. Exactly what glyphs and pet are you using?
I'm using a scorpid. How do you raise your pets HR, if I'm at cap will he be at cap?
I took the spec from above so I don't have aim'd shot any longer, so TSA is kinda useless, which Glyphs should I be using, I could get rid of bestial wrath seeing as I don't need it anymore, but what would I replace it with?
I'm using a scorpid. How do you raise your pets HR, if I'm at cap will he be at cap?
I took the spec from above so I don't have aim'd shot any longer, so TSA is kinda useless, which Glyphs should I be using, I could get rid of bestial wrath seeing as I don't need it anymore, but what would I replace it with?
Hit rating scales to your pet in full percentages rounded down. So if you have 7.99% to hit, your pet will get 7%. Unfortunetly, Focused Aim does not scale to your pet at all.
As MM I used Hunter's Mark, Steady Shot, and Improved Hawk
Note that right now there is a bug that prevents Glyph of Steady Shot and the talent Marked For Death from working together, so you can only have one or the other.
I'm using a scorpid. How do you raise your pets HR, if I'm at cap will he be at cap?
I took the spec from above so I don't have aim'd shot any longer, so TSA is kinda useless, which Glyphs should I be using, I could get rid of bestial wrath seeing as I don't need it anymore, but what would I replace it with?
Pets get 100% of the Hunter´s HR rounded down. So if you´re at 7.99%, he´s at 7%. If you have 8% HR from gear, your pet will be capped as well.
Switch glyphs to Steady, Serpent Sting, and maybe Aspect of the Hawk. Chimera shot gains damage from the increased DOT from Serpent Sting.
EDIT: Damn this foreign keyboard slowing my typing speed down. >:(
01/02/09, 9:07 PM
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