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Old 12/21/08, 9:39 PM   #211
Iru
Don Flamenco
 
Iru's Avatar
 
Draenei Hunter
 
Muradin
Why Rapid Killing in a Readiness build

So this has been bothering me for a while. What is the point of putting points in RK when you're taking Readiness as an MM hunter?

RK brings the CD on RF down to 3 mins But the CD on Readiness is already 3 min. So, you say, that means I can theortectially get an extra RF in before the Readiness CD completes if I hit Readiness straight after RF. True but the CDs will so overlap that I will effectively waste that RF or it will just lag the availability of the next RF if I wait to repeat Readiness until the RF buff has gone. RK just seems a waste of points in any build with Readiness in it.

What am I missing?

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Old 12/21/08, 10:17 PM   #212
Lerastes
Piston Honda
 
Tauren Hunter
 
Cenarion Circle
Originally Posted by Iru View Post
So this has been bothering me for a while. What is the point of putting points in RK when you're taking Readiness as an MM hunter?

RK brings the CD on RF down to 3 mins But the CD on Readiness is already 3 min. So, you say, that means I can theortectially get an extra RF in before the Readiness CD completes if I hit Readiness straight after RF. True but the CDs will so overlap that I will effectively waste that RF or it will just lag the availability of the next RF if I wait to repeat Readiness until the RF buff has gone. RK just seems a waste of points in any build with Readiness in it.

What am I missing?
What's not to understand about it? Instead of using two RFs in rapid succession and then one 3 minutes later, you use it twice every time.

0:00.0 Hit RF
0:01.5 Hit Readiness
0:15.0 RF wears off, hit RF again
0:30.0 RF wears off
3:01.5 Readiness cools down
3:30.0 RF cools down, hit RF
3:31.5 Hit Readiness
3:45.0 RF wears off, hit RF again
4:00.0 RF wears off

That's four RFs in four minutes exactly with 25% up time. If you didn't have RK:

0:00.0 Hit RF
0:01.5 Hit Readiness
0:15.0 RF wears off, hit RF again
0:30.0 RF wears off
3:01.5 Readiness cools down, hit Readiness again
3:03.0 Hit RF
3:18.0 RF wears off
6:01.5 Readiness cools down, hit Readiness again
6:03.0 Hit RF
6:18.0 RF wears off

That's four RFs in over six minutes with 15.8% up time. Your Rapid Fire up time goes up by 5.4% per talent point.

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Old 12/22/08, 2:05 AM   #213
Zankul
Glass Joe
 
Dwarf Hunter
 
Thunderlord
Originally Posted by Doobiee View Post
The Chimera Shot - Serpent portion of the shot does damage equal to 40% of the total damage done by your Serpent Sting. The Serpent Sting glyph adds a tick of damage (and will add two ticks in 3.0.8), in effect granting +20% sting damage, and upping your Chimera Shot - Serpent damage by (0.2)(0.4) = 8%.

I have been debating this next point but haven't been able to join the PTR and I am BW/Readiness build atm.

Giving the addition of the Serpent Sting Glyph being 6sec adding 2 ticks and improving the Chimera Shot overall dmg got me thinking the following:

I tought way back at rolling ignites of mages and read Chimera Shot where it says it refreshes the sting and deals 40% dmg.
Since Serpent Sting is affected by RAP, being Marks and having a Ferocity Pet would allow for an extra 20% RAP with CotW, then if we could count Mirror of Truth procing early at the fight +1000 AtkP and Loatheb's Shadow use for 680 AtkP.
Having all those buffs one could Serpent Sting and FD change trinkets into lets say a more suitable DPS trinkets Fury of the Five Flights and Bandit's Insignia and if we kept on doing the 10sec Chimera Shot that Serpent Sting shouldn't fall off with it's 21 sec timer.

The next question is: After switching trinkets, would the Serpent Sting applied still be considered with the CotW + Trinkets?
If so that would mean Chimera Shot would be also affected with the "buffed" Serpent Sting throught the encounter.

I couldn't find any information on this, insight is welcomed.

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Old 12/22/08, 2:22 AM   #214
snail
Von Kaiser
 
Dwarf Hunter
 
Arygos
Originally Posted by Zankul View Post
...Having all those buffs one could Serpent Sting and FD change trinkets into lets say a more suitable DPS trinkets...
The next question is: After switching trinkets, would the Serpent Sting applied still be considered with the CotW + Trinkets?
If so that would mean Chimera Shot would be also affected with the "buffed" Serpent Sting throught the encounter.

I couldn't find any information on this, insight is welcomed.

FD doesn't allow you to change gear on boss fights since early TBC.

However, if you serpent sting while your AP trinket procs are up (for example Mirror + Loatheb's shadow for an extra ~1750rap) the resulting serpent sting will indeed be refreshed continuously, as will the higher damage chimera shots.

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Old 12/22/08, 1:20 PM   #215
Faerdael
Piston Honda
 
Faerdael's Avatar
 
Night Elf Hunter
 
Gilneas
Originally Posted by snail View Post
FD doesn't allow you to change gear on boss fights since early TBC.
Call it the TrinketMenu nerf if you will. Good change too. I think one option still exists, which would be a pre-pull trinket swap. In otherwords, queue up a spare "use" trinket, use it a few seconds before the pull and have an auto-swap to your normal proc trinket configured (TrinketMenu or a macro could do this nicely).

What I'm not clear on is if a proc trinket's internal cooldown occurs only after a proc, or on equip too; if it happens on equip, then this idea is moot, otherwise it could be a slight dps boost.

Last edited by Faerdael : 12/22/08 at 2:06 PM.

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Old 12/22/08, 4:36 PM   #216
snail
Von Kaiser
 
Dwarf Hunter
 
Arygos
Originally Posted by Faerdael View Post
Call it the TrinketMenu nerf if you will. Good change too. I think one option still exists, which would be a pre-pull trinket swap. In otherwords, queue up a spare "use" trinket, use it a few seconds before the pull and have an auto-swap to your normal proc trinket configured (TrinketMenu or a macro could do this nicely).

What I'm not clear on is if a proc trinket's internal cooldown occurs only after a proc, or on equip too; if it happens on equip, then this idea is moot, otherwise it could be a slight dps boost.
I'd have to double check but I was under the impression that all temporary buffs now automatically vanish if the item providing them is unequipped.

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Old 12/22/08, 5:17 PM   #217
McInaction
Don Flamenco
 
McInaction's Avatar
 
Troll Hunter
 
Korgath
Originally Posted by snail View Post
I'd have to double check but I was under the impression that all temporary buffs now automatically vanish if the item providing them is unequipped.
You're correct, as soon as you unequip the trinket that provided the buff the buff is gone.

Originally Posted by Relwin
If you need a shot macro to hold your hand then you are probably on the wrong forums.

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Old 12/22/08, 9:51 PM   #218
Prong
Glass Joe
 
Dwarf Hunter
 
Llane
My big question is: Is Agility still the big go-to attribute for Marks Spec'd Hunters?

I mean with all these changes coming about and with the inclusions of "Hit Rating", "Haste" and other attributes by way of equipment, enchants and glyphs, is agility a thing of the past?

I have a Dwarf Hunter and I'm trying to get the most dps out of him with the gear I have but having talked to other hunters, a few say Attack Power is the way to go and others say concentrate on Hit Rating.

any ideas?

Last edited by Prong : 12/25/08 at 9:01 PM.

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Old 12/23/08, 2:19 AM   #219
flimflam
Von Kaiser
 
Orc Hunter
 
Mug'thol
Originally Posted by Prong View Post
My big question is: Is Agility still the big go-to attribute for Marks Spec'd Hunters?

I mean with all these changes coming about and with the inclusions of "Hit Rating", "Haste" and other attributes by way of equipment, enchants and glyphs, is agility a thing of the past?

I have a Dwarf Hunter and I'm trying to get the most dps out of him with the gear I have but having talked to other hunters, a few say Attack Power is the way to go and others say concentrate on Hit Rating.

I've included my armory The World of Warcraft Armory just in case.

any ideas?
Our most important stat until capped is Hit. There's no use stacking a ton of other stats if your missing a lot of your shots.

From what I've read here MM can use either Agi or AP. BM gains the most from AP because the pet gains from your AP and SV gains the most from Agi due to talents.

With MM having both an Agi talent (Combat Experience) and AP talent (Trueshot Aura), either works. I think what someone said was that if you lean BM (spec bm for pvp or anything else) use AP and if you lean SV use Agi. But i believe AP is the better stat at the moment if you plan to stay MM and don't care about the other spec's.

In the end, you want to max out your Hit Rating (or get very close) then AP/Agi, Int, Crit, and Haste if your MM/SV until your Steady Shot is down to 1.5s. (BM doesn't need any haste to bring Steady down to 1.5)

Last edited by flimflam : 12/23/08 at 2:24 AM.

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Old 12/23/08, 5:25 AM   #220
Whitemane
King Hippo
 
Orc Hunter
 
Tarren Mill (EU)
Hit is not important because it allows you not to miss, hit is important because it costs very little on the item budget. The function of the stat is sort of irrelevant, crit could be the new go to stat if it cost half of what it did today for example. Your best bet is to download the spreadsheet and use it to evaluate items. As a rule of thumb though, items with +hit on them are very good if you are not capped. Some ilvl 200 blues with hit on them can compete with ilvl 213 purples without hit on them, if you are not hitcapped.

AP is still better for MM, at least according to the spreadsheet.

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Old 12/23/08, 8:59 AM   #221
Rokh
Piston Honda
 
Orc Hunter
 
Emerald Dream
Agi comes out slightly ahead of AP for my gear and MM spec, just fyi. At least, after the nerfs and such. So it's worth downloading the sheet and using it for your own gear setup and tweaking accordingly.

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Old 12/23/08, 11:01 AM   #222
Jander
Von Kaiser
 
Gnome Death Knight
 
Stormrage
Before I geared up at all AP was better as Marks. As I started to gear up they became nearly equal. As of now at high end gear for the moment, Agility is 3% better than AP as Marks.

The comment that Marks has an +AP talent is irrelevant since it is a raid Buff you should always be getting from somewhere. Combat Experience may be what gives MM the agility nod though.

If you have plans of ever moving out of old BC and blue quest items and you know you don't want to dabble in BM, save yourself the trouble and go with AGI from the start.

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Old 12/23/08, 11:38 AM   #223
Vitaro
Von Kaiser
 
Vitaro's Avatar
 
Night Elf Hunter
 
Stormrage (EU)
While doing my Serpent Sting Monitor addon research I've come across an interesting little factoid:

Despite what the tooltip says, Serpent Sting ticks _already_ get influenced by Improved Tracking. Same goes for Volley ticks it seems. Try it out on any random mob near you

Guess this is important both for the pre-patch version of the spreadsheet, as well as an indication that the upcoming "buff" to Impr. Tracking isn't really a buff after all :/

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Old 12/23/08, 4:43 PM   #224
Esoth
Bald Bull
 
Esoth's Avatar
 
Pandaren Hunter
 
Whisperwind
Originally Posted by Vitaro View Post
While doing my Serpent Sting Monitor addon research I've come across an interesting little factoid:

Despite what the tooltip says, Serpent Sting ticks _already_ get influenced by Improved Tracking. Same goes for Volley ticks it seems. Try it out on any random mob near you

Guess this is important both for the pre-patch version of the spreadsheet, as well as an indication that the upcoming "buff" to Impr. Tracking isn't really a buff after all :/
Did you actually test this, or is this just what some addon was telling you? If you've got some evidence you might want to move this on over to the spreadsheet discussion page. I'm curious enough to check it out when I get home either way.

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Old 12/23/08, 7:30 PM   #225
Vitaro
Von Kaiser
 
Vitaro's Avatar
 
Night Elf Hunter
 
Stormrage (EU)
I would not post here if I did not test this myself on actual mobs: I also make sure to switch off any addons that might interfere with my combat log. I did not test this with removing points out of Improved Tracking, then gradually adding points and comparing the damage difference when tracking or not however, which would be the final thing to check to make it definite. But the difference in numbers is exactly 4% and I have 4/5 Impr. Tracking right now.

00:25'18.656	Vitaropago gains Track Beasts.
00:25'21.484	Reanimated Crusader is afflicted by Serpent Sting.
00:25'24.812	Reanimated Crusader suffers 536 Nature damage from Vitaropago Serpent Sting.
00:25'31.671	Vitaropago gains Track Undead.
00:25'34.734	Reanimated Crusader is afflicted by Serpent Sting.
00:25'37.890	Reanimated Crusader suffers 557 Nature damage from Vitaropago Serpent Sting.

Last edited by Vitaro : 12/23/08 at 9:17 PM.

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