Thanks for the input. I think I'll rather put that specc for my dualspecc, and I can switch to my usual specc if the AoE is sufficient without hunters. On the other hand though, wouldn't it be better to help out AoEing anyway, and if the adds die fast enough everyone can focus dps on the boss, instead of having some on the boss all the time, since AoE dps is greater than single-target dps?

We'll be using two add tanks so me and the other hunter will most likely be MDing one add to each tank while tanks pick up the other one. I'll have to see how we want to do it later and I can adapt to that.

Well, even with your results, its a wash for you but a benefit for your raid if you have at least one other hunter though.

I did run your gear and talents through the spreadsheet (with switching a deadly to a glinting to get the last 10 hit rating you were short), and the results came up with IHM being better. So I thought maybe you run with a different set up so I tried several different options. For every single one, IHM was better than ISS.

My standard rotation with AiS->CS->KS->SSx3/4: +23
My standard rotation but witout allowing upto 300ms wait: +13
CS->AiS->KS->SSx3/4: +14
KS->CS->AiS->SSx3/4: +14

I even tried the options with taking that hit gem back out, and I got about the same results in every case.

And yes, at some point ISS becomes better than IHM for a hunter alone, but even then it is still better for the raid if you have at least another hunter in it. For my analysis of current BiS gear, IHM is still coming out better for the hunter alone than ISS. Thus, I do not see myself putting point into ISS instead of IHM for quite a while still.

I've mainly use femaledwarf.com for calculating DPS and as many of you have pointed out, Priotising Aimed shot over CS (including picking up AiS Glyph) returns a higher DPS - for me it's around 50 DPS over CS prioritisation.

This doesn't sound right to me. I'm sure the numbers are true but I feel that CS should be MM hunter's top prio shot. I think Unholy DKs had a similar issue not long ago. What surprised me was when I turned off Sunder Armour and Savage Combat debuffs (we don't always have a Rogue or Warrior in our raids) AiS still came out higher. I have the Mjonir Trinket and less tan 300 ArP too.

If I dropped CS Prio and traded KS Glyph in for AiS, what would it mean for things other than just a DPS shootout? I'm guessing AiS will be more mana intensive as you wont get the mana reduction from ISS on CS. Also on adds or in maybe longer fights where the boss is at 20% or less for longer than usual, the loss of KS Glyph might also hurt?

After double checking, I am still seeing ~1 dps lost with my gear after swapping in a hit gem to stay hit capped. I am using femaledwarf.com to get the dps values, so it might be a little different than the spreadsheet?

But I do agree if you are raiding with one or more hunters and they don't have IHM, it's definitely a dps increase for yourself and the other hunters.

I dropped Enchanting yesterday and rerolled Engineering. The goal was not really to increase my DPS, it was moreless something I ever wanted to do and also I like it for PvP.

However I am surprised right now that the Spreadsheet values 20 Agi on Gloves higher than the Hyperspeed Accelerator. I am pretty sure that stacking it with Rapid Fire / Heroism /Call of the Wild would be a DPS increase in most Bossfights.

Any thoughts on this?

Wouldnt stack hero/RF and the glove enchant depending on your normal SS cast time, would give you something way over the GCD. As for me, my normal SS cast is 1.66 close enough to GCD, with hero and RF together, the cast is so short, i pretty much just wasting DPS time because of the GCD. Of course you dont have the same gear etc as i do but i dont think that stacking that much haste into one CD would be ideal as you chain them but it does depend on the cast of your SS.

But Im pretty sure if you stack all of CDs like that your SS is too fast for GCD to be stacking it.

If stacking haste is your style, AND you don't dip way too low into the GCD, I'd suggest pairing haste effects two by two.

- Rapid Fire + Glove Enchant
- Readiness -> Rapid Fire + Haste potion
- Heroism + Whatever's off cooldown (enchant, RF, trinkets, if you stumble across any)

Otherwise, just use them in succession for a quasi-permanent speed increase, to which I personally subscribe.

Ok, but wouldn't stacking haste (Rapid Fire, Potion of Speed, Gloves enchant and Heroism or any combination of those) be better if you use them during a Mjolnir proc rather than chaining them without the proc? And usually its not only one of your trinkets that procs, but both Mjolnir + DMC:G or Mjolnir + Death's Verdict.

I remember that there were discussions about stacking or not before, but none of them included trinket procs. So if someone could do some calculations about this, it would be really great. Until then my gut feeling says to stack when the procs are up, instead of chaining.

Correct me if I am wrong,
But in order to achieve maximum DPS, you want to pair Multiplicative buffs, not stacking buffs.

I think it's fair to disregard the cast time for SS because it is at or around 1.5sec with the application of one haste buff, and that includes Rapid Shots.

simply Stacking buffs (which I do not recommend) would be getting a 1k AP proc and triggering a 2k AP buff. This adds for burst, but neither actually affects the DPS potential of the other buff. Likewise, getting bloodlust and using a rapid fire just speeds up your shots more, but doesn't improve dps potential of either CD.

buffs should be paired alternatively, if you get bloodlust (haste buff), you want to blow an attackpower trinket, that way you maximize the damage potential of all the extra shots.

Similarly, you want to save your potion of speed for greatness proc for the same reason.

the caveat here is the third-fourth-fifth buff you stack. As long as you've properly paired 2 buffs, any additionally stacked buffs are still multiplicative. But, if you want to maximize the value of each of your buffs, you want to use them together, pairing haste+damage.


My suggestion:
Pot'o'speed - Mojinar Runestone
Rapid Fire - Greatness/Deaths Choice
CotW - Bloodlust

This pairs haste and damage buffs, as well as pairing non-player activated buffs with those that can be fired on demand. (Hopefully you're pets furious howls will line up with rapid shots.)

For me personally, I am not a big fan of holding onto cooldowns. If you hold onto some of your cooldowns for say 30 seconds while you wait for a proc, it might result in you using those cooldowns less in the overall fight which I'm sure is a bigger dps loss. If you know the fight is a short one and you will only get say 1 rapid/readiness/rapid no matter when you use it (twins) then sure I think it's natural to stack it. With longer fights, everything falls back to priority for me.

I don't think we are on the same page here.

Lets say that we get a medium long fight as an exalmpe. Shortly after the pull, chances are that both of your trinkets will proc at the same time (Mjolnir and Death's Verdict as an example). At that point, you use Rapid fire, Potion of Speed and CotW (haste gloves enchant if you have it). By doing that you maximize the number of auto shots you get during the 10-15 secs of burst.
The other option is to stack even more haste by waiting with your CDs for the time you get Heroism if the fight is short enough and you won't lose a pair of Rapid/Readiness by waiting or if you time the use of your CDs with the time Heroism is called. It involves a bit of luck with the timing, but it is doable.

Now, if my feeling is correct, the increased AP, being ArP capped and having all those haste buffs up at the same time will net you more damage than if you chain the haste buffs. And as R00k!3 said above me, there was some theorycrafting done a while back that showed a small advantage of stacking vs chaining. And if someone, good enough with numbers, can spend some time and give us the answer, it would be awesome.