I normally MD'd so I would always drop the first Chim > Aimed combo into the boss, followed by a crappy serpent in hoped I would get a Mirror/Greatness proc. Seemed to work well and allowed the non-warrior tanks time to ramp up threat.

Ultimately, it's never worth using your CDs without a trinket proc up if you have one seeing as you can only normally use them once per fight. As an Orc, and with many use trinkets, is it very possible to use them twice and putting those off on shorter fights (sub-3min kills) and only hitting them once will result in lower DPS.

In short: Proc trinkets, unless extremely reliable (which Mirror isn't), are really a double-edged sword for MM. That said, you will invariably get more damage replacing a shitty SS with a new one with a bunch of AP procs or CDs up.

I figured this would be the best place to put this since I used a MM spec. Using the spreadsheet, I came up with a list of gear that would be best in slot. I did get slightly higher dps using leather, but I chose not to include that piece. If anyone else can get higher dps without changing races or using item/enchants through professions, please post your changes. I used the 80 raid buffs from the spreadsheet, and I used the rotation Serpent > Rapid Fire > Chimera > Kill Shot > Arcane > Readiness > Steady Shot. Also, I used Night Elf as they don't have any racials that directly benefit dps.

Spec: Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft

Main Hand: Journey's End - Massacre
Head: Blue Aspect Helm - Arcanum of Torment
Meta: Relentless Earthsiege Diamond
Yellow: Rigid Autumn's Glow
Neck: Favor of the Dragon Queen
Blue: Delicate Scarlet Ruby
Shoulders: Valorous Cryptstalker Spaulders - Greater Inscription of the Axe
Red: Delicate Scarlet Ruby
Back: Drape of the Deadly Foe - Major Agi
Chest: Valorous Cryptstalker Tunic - Powerful Stats
Red: Delicate Scarlet Ruby
Blue: Vivid Forest Emerald
Wrist: Slime Stream Bands
Blue: Delicate Scarlet Ruby
Hands: Gloves of Calculated Risk - Crusher
Waist: Torn Web Wrapping - Belt Buckle
Prismatic: Delicate Scarlet Ruby
Legs: Leggings of Failed Escape - Nerubian Leg Reinforcements
Red: Delicate Scarlet Ruby
Blue: Vivid Forest Emerald
Feet: Boots of Renewed Flight - Icewalker
Rings: Surge Needle Ring/Strong-Handed Ring
Trinkets: Darkmoon Card:Greatness/Fury of the Five Flights
Ranged weapon: Envoy of Mortality - Heartseeker Scope
Ammo: 67.5 dps

4354.71 for hunter only
956.64 for cat (scorpion would do more dps atm)
5311 total

"Best in slot" simple doesn´t exist for Hunters. If you have one piece with hit rating, another piece without it might be best in slot for you, but drop the hit piece and something else is best in slot, and the DPS with either combo might be identical. A list like this is best in slot for YOU, because YOU built it. For example, my best in slot gloves according to the spreadsheet are t7.5. A list like this is worthless for everyone else unless they want to get only the pieces there and nothing else while possibly gimping their DPS on the way.

I don't know if his list would be it, but what I believe he's going for is best in slot in regards to the gear available, not what may or may not be an upgrade for each hunter. The combination of gear which puts you at the hit cap, haste soft cap, and then gives you the highest possible total of AP/Crit is definitely out there, I'm just not sure what it is.

I haven't updated to the latest spreadsheet yet but I'm pleased to see my list is almost the exact same as you. The only difference I have is I use Chest of the Flagrant Prowess instead of Valorous and use Valorous gloves instead of Gloves of Calculated Risk. Regem to get hit accordingly. I remember trying your combination first but I got slightly higher when making the above changes. This was also for a MM/Surv build, pretty sure best in slot gear differs for BM.

I believe there is best in slot for hunter assuming you have all the gear available to you. It should be the highest spreadsheet dps you can achieve with this assumption and it def. helpful to have a list like that as reference for the optimal items you want in each slot.

Also, the dps might change depending on your profession (I'm ench/LW). If you're hurting on hit, I could see the 20 hit to gloves being far more useful than any other enchant on gloves which is what I use i think but like I said, it's been a while since I've gone back to that spreadsheet.

There is absolutely a combination of gear that is going to be better than any other combination of gear on average. As a guild/raid leader I actually require our members to come up with this list for their class/spec because I don't want a raid full of people wearing second-best-in-slot items. We want people to have a plan for their loot, and we don't want them deleting items because they're temporarily upgrades.

Anyway, the gear setup I used for MM resulted in 5440.35 dps as a Night Elf. I used [Calamity's Grasp] and [Sinister Revenge] as my weapons, both enchanted with Accuracy. I also used [Valorous Cryptstalker Handguards] and [Valorous Cryptstalker Legguards]. Gems used were [Delicate Scarlet Ruby] for red sockets, [Deadly Monarch Topaz] for yellow sockets, and [Shifting Twilight Opal] for blue sockets. This setup uses Snapper Extreme and reaches the hit cap exactly. On a sidenote this gear setup is best-in-slot for BM and SV as well, the only thing that changes is the gems(for BM.)

The Accuracy enchant is quite over-budget. I doubt any BIS setup for hunters of any spec will be using anything other than two one-handed weapons with Accuracy.

Woops, I always mix those two up. It's supposed to be [Calamity's Grasp]. I updated my post.

I got my DPS on newest spreadsheet up to 5460, rebuilt the set just to make sure it was right. JC required, all other stuff is spreadsheet default (will go up to 5700 with all relevant buffs/debuffs).

[Black Ice]
[Blue Aspect Helm] + Rigid
[Favor of the Dragon Queen] + JC Delicate
[Valorous Cryptstalker Spaulders] + Delicate
[Drape of the Deadly Foe]
[Tunic of Masked Suffering]
[Arachnoid Gold Band]
[Gloves of Calculated Risk]
[Depraved Linked Belt] + JC Delicate
[Valorous Cryptstalker Legguards] + Delicate & JC Delicate
[Boots of the Renewed Flight]
[Surge Needle Ring] + [Strong-Handed Ring]
[Darkmoon Card: Greatness] + [Fury of the Five Flights]

Cat Pet, standard pet spec and abilities.

spec: 16/51/4
*note: this is a GARBAGE spec out of raids and will basically not function without JoW and replenishment. This is pretty much just the max DPS spec you can do, no idea how it would perform for longevity, and wouldn't even want to guess.

Glyphs: serpent, steady and imp AotH

Shot rotation: Serpent > Rapid > Chim > KS > Arcane > Aimed > Readiness > Steady

I'll compare my results using various people's setups:

dssurge: 5590.45 (4498.13 hunter, 1092.32 cat)
Sebudai: 5694.89 (4587.35 hunter, 1107.55 cat)
Ketsuri: 5735.08 (4620.20 hunter, 1114.87 cat)
Neruse: 5747.42 (4631.23 hunter, 1116.19 cat)

Some info to help explain.

1) I used 15/51/5 for everyone but ddsurge, as his layout required me to use his spec. Using talent points for FA just isn't worth it with the gear available.
2) I assumed Sebudai wanted to use Flagrant Progress as chest.
3) I didn't use JC gems. If I did, my layout would be able to meet the socket requirements of neck, bracers and legs.
4) I used Frosted Adroit, replacing the rigid with glinting in the helm, and the vivid with delicate in the legs as per Ketsuri's layout.

Edit: I noticed that by moving the points from RK into ISS is a gain of 12 dps, but RK is just so nice for small group/solo and add fights like Sarth that I'd hate to give it up.

Korvek,

seeing as you specced into arcane instead of aimed shot have you compared the two on live and found that arcane shot's dps is higher than aimed shot's dps even with 3 pts in barrage and 1 or 2 pts in imp. barrage?

@ Neruse: How much DPS would you gain by moving 3points from Wild Quiver into Imp.SteadyShot?

That's fair. I just watch for early procs while starting my rotation and just reapply serpent sting then.

It's less dps per point than WQ, as you're replacing quite a few steady shots with arcane and aimed.

I appreciate those putting up their lists of Best In Slot items, as I welcome the validation of my own list, and enjoy looking into the comparisons between those and mine.

What I found interesting is that set bonuses of Tier armor seems to be a non-factor in many of these lists. Are they really that minimal a benefit?

The 4p bonus is rather meh, but as you can see everyone has 2 pieces included in their lists. That bonus is good enough to make 2 pieces better than their non set counterparts.

I assume you used the rotation posted eariler with aimed added into it. I was wondering what did you use to get the pet dps that high? I saw that the Frosted Adroit was the highest dps gloves, but I decided not to add them since they drop from Malygos and all feral druids and rogues would hate you for taking them. Also, what changes did you make to gain that dps increase for the hunter?

Sorry to get a bit off topic but I would like input in this spec: here. Not sure if it would be good to put points int he SV tree for Survival Instinct or just have 4 points in Imp. Tracking and the rest into Unleashed Fury?

Correct me if I am interpreting you the wrong way, but I have been running with that spec for quite some time (ignore my spec now, roommate redid my talents for some reason) and on a >3 min PW fight I don't have to worry about mana at all

The problem with this wave of best-in-slot lists is that they either don't state explicitly what buffs were assumed, or they assume the default "Level 80 raid" buffs in the spreadsheet which have some glaring flaws:
- It assumes using the level 70 buff food
- It assumes using the level 70 +AP flask
- It assumes the impossible - applying TBC weapon oils to level 80 items
- It assumes you are missing available raid buffs (debateable)

For the TBC version of this list, the list of raid buffs, allowed racials, professions, etc. was debated and agreed on. This made it pretty easy to tell when a new combination of gear/spec/buffs/rotation was in fact an upgrade (and let Kamaa put the smackdown on all the random "I found a new DPS high, all it needs is for gravity to fall upwards" posts).

I'll throw my proposal for acceptable parameters into the ring:
- Assume the presence of all available raid buffs & boss debuffs - everything on, max rank, all the time.
- Allow any race, but if you choose Horde you must turn off Heroic Presence for both hunter & pet
- Allow any food/elixir/flask buff for hunter & pet, but require people to state what they used
- Allow any pair of professions, but require people to state what they used
- Allow any hunter talent spec, but require people to state what they used
- Allow any major & minor glyphs, but require people to state what they used
- Allow any shot rotation priority, but require people to state what they used
- Allow any pet choice & talent spec, but require people to state what they used
- Allow any pet ability priority, but require people to state what they used
- Assume default values for all properties on the Settings tab
- Allow any gear & enchants currently available in game

Personally I'd love to see a revival of the "Best gear/DPS for each spec" thread we had in TBC, but IMHO we should learn from what worked & didn't in that thread, for the WotLK version.

Guess I'll just re-post my complete listing to clear up anymore confusion about those slots I didn't mention:

[Blue Aspect Helm] + [Arcanum of Torment]
[Favor of the Dragon Queen]
[Valorous Cryptstalker Spaulders] + [Greater Inscription of the Axe]
[Drape of the Deadly Foe] + 22 agility enchant
[Valorous Cryptstalker Tunic] + 10 to all stats enchant
[Slime Stream Bands] + 50 attack power enchant
[Valorous Cryptstalker Handguards] + 44 attack power enchant
[Depraved Linked Belt] + [Eternal Belt Buckle]
[Valorous Cryptstalker Legguards] + [Icescale Leg Armor]
[Boots of the Renewed Flight] + Icewalker enchant
[Surge Needle Ring]
[Strong-Handed Ring]
[Darkmoon Card: Greatness]
[Fury of the Five Flights]
[Calamity's Grasp] + Accuracy enchant
[Sinister Revenge] + Accuracy enchant
[Envoy of Mortality] + [Heartseeker Scope]

Gems are:
[Relentless Earthsiege Diamond]
[Delicate Scarlet Ruby]
[Deadly Monarch Topaz]
[Shifting Twilight Opal]

Food is:
[Snapper Extreme]

The above listing ignores profession-specific perks and racial abilities. Total dps in the spreadsheet was 5408.85 using a 11/53/7 spec. This is not a spec that maximizes spreadsheet dps, although it's very close. We all know the spreadsheet isn't capable of mimicing reality 100% accurately. I don't really see the point of attempting to maximize spreadsheet dps by making decisions I know would be incorrect in the game.

1) 40 agi food or 40 hit if the person states they're using it.
2) Endless rage flask.
3) Oils don't work, but demonic runes do. Regardless, I'm not assuming either.
4) Not unreasonable to assume all raid buffs in a 25 man.

I'm using the same buffs, and the same spec as often as possible. I tested with a fight length that didn't require any viper use. These are all controlled variables. I don't know how you can assume I'm randomly removing/adding buffs as I compare gear; it just doesn't make sense.

Yes, you actually can easily determine a best-in-slot list when using reasonable control variables.

Science. It works.

Edit fer two fight lengths (4 min, 8 min extreme):

Sebudai (~6030 AP, 46.29% crit): 5753 dps/5634 dps
Neruse (~6220 AP, 48.85% crit): 5839 dps/5680 dps

Only differences are the exact pieces of gear, the choice of gems, and food. It's a direct Gear A vs Gear B comparison. Note that when AotV enters the equation (8min has both using viper sometimes), 4pc starts closing the gap. Though it'd probably take a 12-15 minute fight before it finally passes non-set pieces.

For sake of being accurate (sorry), most raids will not have the 2% physical damage buff seeing as it comes from 2 very sub-optimal DPS specs (combat rogues and arms warriors). Including it is probably a good idea for consistency, but it will inflate the damage done by cats over other potential pet choices who don't have physical abilities.

(This is me praying they make something that isn't a cat a raid viable pet.)


As a side note, the spreadsheet isn't designed to handle trinket use and procs "correctly" for MM and gives massively deflated numbers for SrS and Chim sting damage, both of which roll at snapshot AP values. Just like current DK Gargoyles, they do a HELL of a lot more damage when you pop a Loatheb's Shadow, Blood Fury, and CotW with a Mirror of Truth/Greatness proc.

I don't want to sound negative, but there are drawbacks to the spreadsheet, on top of the fact that I've run a 70% crit rate on Chim Shot during a Patchwerk kill which *massively* increased my WWS-ePeen status, those alone may be the largest factor in why we cannot correctly identify an optimal gearset as Sebudai was implying.

Science is theoretical, so no, it doesn't always work.



Oh, and stop saying haste is a bad stat, it's lag-proof afk auto-shot damage