Marksman questions - Page 174

kabes · 01/17/10, 12:50 AM

Originally Posted by PikeyJM

So I've typically raided as Survival and I've done well but I'm starting to get bored so I recently talented as MM.

I've seen a couple rotations suggested in this thread, one being Steady Shot X4, Chimera, Aimed

and someone else suggesting that Steady Shot X2 Chimera, Steady Shot X2, Aimed was better in theory.

And it appears both ignore Arcane shot.

Any tips on which is best and just in general interweaving steadyshots in during raids? During ICC raids I find myself having trouble sticking to a clean shot rotation in MM because I'm constantly moving around running. Which in Survival is not a big deal because all my big damage stuff is instant cast.

Don't worry about a clean "rotation" ... just fall back to the priority system.

If you're on the move use arcane shot... just don't use it in place of a steady shot when standing still. Stutter step when moving to always fire your autoshots.

skyonyx · 01/17/10, 3:55 PM

I apologize in advance if this has already been answered, but I cannot seem to find it anywhere.

My question is, for an MM hunter is combining 2 piece tier 9 and 2 piece tier 10 for set bonus (serpent stings critable/ 15% damage proc) better than say the 4 piece tier 10?

Thanks

Guinss · 01/17/10, 4:04 PM

Originally Posted by skyonyx

I apologize in advance if this has already been answered, but I cannot seem to find it anywhere.

My question is, for an MM hunter is combining 2 piece tier 9 and 2 piece tier 10 for set bonus (serpent stings critable/ 15% damage proc) better than say the 4 piece tier 10?

Thanks

I dont know what gear your using, but for me its close to no difference using 2 t9(245) and 2t10(251) vs 4t10(251)
But as soon as you get the tokens to upgrade t10, they will give you better dps than keeping t9.

If you drop 2 t9 for offset ilvl 264 though, you will lose substantial amounts of dps.
Therefore you should only replace 2 t9 when you got 4 t10.

Barradin · 01/17/10, 4:14 PM

Originally Posted by StechusKaktus

I just read a Post, (wich is now deleted I think), in wich someone said that Arp-hardcap is 80%. Now I'm wondering if that is true. I'm currently at 87.xx% Armorpenetration without any Arp-food/elixiers.I'm wondering that because if I change one of my +20Arp Gems to let's say Agi I get less dps according to the Spreadsheet, wich encouraged me to further gem Arp for every single Slot (except for one, to get the Metabonus).

Maybe I just missed something and Arphardcap really is at 80% or i missunderstood that Post (I'm German and my English could be better - sorry for that) but i allways thought Arpcap is at 1398 or 100%.

I have read many many Posts but i didn't quite understand when the best Time to apply Serpent Sting is. (probably due to my english). With when to apply i mean: wich Buffs affect Serpent and which don't and wich ones will be recalculated when refreshing Serpent via Chimerashot. Could someone please tell me in simple Terms when it's best to apply it?
What i understood was: that any Buffs/Proccs will only buff Serpent for as long as i don't refresh it (Chimera) except for Buffs/Procs that do a %-dmg Buff, wich will, if i reapply Serpent then be active for as long as i don't reapply it (Chimera will just refresh it).

Because then i might not start the Fight using my little Makro or change it.

I really hope the Spelling was better this Time and i capitalised correctly.

Most of these questions HAVE been answered before, so here's only the short answer:

ArP - 100% is the absolute hard cap, NOT 80%
Serpent Sting - You're more or less correct: RE-Apply it ONLY when you get a buff that increases your damage dealt by a %

EDIT: Also, my preferred means for verifying spreadsheet dps numbers is to compare what you do on a dummy to what you do with zero raid buffs (or however you happen to be buffed at the time)... obviously it's not perfect but it's good for testing your rotations

Rivkah · 01/17/10, 4:31 PM

Keep in mind that the spreadsheet doesn't simulate the benefit of applying a sting with the 2pc T10 bonus and keeping it refreshed an entire fight. So the benefit of the 2pc T9 bonus is going to be a bit higher than spreadsheeted for MM if you're smart about it.

Mustacheride · 01/17/10, 6:29 PM

Originally Posted by Guinss

I dont know what gear your using, but for me its close to no difference using 2 t9(245) and 2t10(251) vs 4t10(251)
But as soon as you get the tokens to upgrade t10, they will give you better dps than keeping t9.

If you drop 2 t9 for offset ilvl 264 though, you will lose substantial amounts of dps.
Therefore you should only replace 2 t9 when you got 4 t10.

Honestly 4pc tier 10 is pretty terrible for single target dps. I show that 2pc 258 tier 9 is competitive with 4pc tier 10 264. If you take the 2pc tier 10 bonus into account with sting it remains competitive with 277 4pc.

BopMajster · 01/17/10, 6:40 PM

[quote]

Originally Posted by Barradin

Most of these questions HAVE been answered before, so here's only the short answer:

ArP - 100% is the absolute hard cap, NOT 80%
Serpent Sting - You're more or less correct: RE-Apply it ONLY when you get a buff that increases your damage dealt by a %

so you do 15% more dmg all the time with srs, if rogue give u only first tricks of the trade?

kabes · 01/17/10, 6:40 PM

Originally Posted by Mustacheride

Honestly 4pc tier 10 is pretty terrible for single target dps. I show that 2pc 258 tier 9 is competitive with 4pc tier 10 264. If you take the 2pc tier 10 bonus into account with sting it remains competitive with 277 4pc.

Yep, I don't see 4pc tier 10 pull ahead for me until all 4 pieces are ilvl 264... and this is even with 245 t9 gear. If you have 258 tier 9 forget about it.

I just put together a "dream" set of gear in the spreadsheet consisting of mostly 277 gear including 4 piece tier 10. When I swapped out two of the 277 tier 10 pieces for two of the 258 tier 9 pieces there was a drop of only 65 dps...

RubiksNinja · 01/18/10, 11:32 AM

I've been considering this for some time, and it is great for our personal DPS that tricks can buff our Serpent Sting damage and continue to roll with chimera, but anyone with a focus on raid performance and optimal raid potential would share this information with the warlocks and shadow-priests, who get exponentially more benefit from rolling buffed dots.

Edit: Hysteria does not work the same as tricks. (sorry)

valiloramov · 01/18/10, 11:57 AM

Originally Posted by RubiksNinja

PS: Hysteria should work the same as tricks.

Hysteria is a +20% buff to Physical Damage, not Nature, so I would have thought that it would have no effect on Serpent Sting.

tieren · 01/20/10, 12:57 PM

Just a quick question... I'm playing in the dps spreadsheet and noticed that the sample MM spec has 3/3 in improved mark and 1/2 in improved barrage.

I'm currently raiding 10-man (2 hunters, pally is our only melee dps) with 0/3 in imp mark and 2/2 imp barrage and 2/3 improved steady. Is there a general concensus on which is preferable? I'd think that imp mark has fairly limited return in 10-man since there are so few raid members, but it also seems like imp steady doesn't proc a whole lot.

I'm trying to look at the numbers under both specs with the spreadsheet, but my office computer isn't playing too nice with the spreadsheet's size and complexity.

Drekk · 01/20/10, 2:33 PM

imp Hunters mark only works for ranged attack power now, so your buff would only work for 2 raid members.

zakaria · 01/21/10, 12:27 AM

Originally Posted by PanvA

You are incorrect, Serpent Sting is not refreshed with all buffs. Only %modifiers like Culling, 2T10, Tricks and FI are kept the entire fight via Chimera Shot refresh.
AP modifiers and other stat boosts are only kept until you refresh your Serpent Sting with next Chimera shot.

Thanks for the clearance for the difference between % damage modifiers and %AP modifiers for this certain issue, but the question is. Is this intended or it's considered as bug? Does rest of the classes that have refreshing spells (or similar mechanic) work in same rule in terms of their AP/SP/%dmg modifiers?

Cerevantes · 01/21/10, 4:25 AM

Originally Posted by tieren

Just a quick question... I'm playing in the dps spreadsheet and noticed that the sample MM spec has 3/3 in improved mark and 1/2 in improved barrage.

I'm currently raiding 10-man (2 hunters, pally is our only melee dps) with 0/3 in imp mark and 2/2 imp barrage and 2/3 improved steady. Is there a general concensus on which is preferable? I'd think that imp mark has fairly limited return in 10-man since there are so few raid members, but it also seems like imp steady doesn't proc a whole lot.

I'm trying to look at the numbers under both specs with the spreadsheet, but my office computer isn't playing too nice with the spreadsheet's size and complexity.

With my current gear (See armory to left, but half 264 half 258) 3/3 IHM is a 200 personal dps gain, Hunter's Mark glyph is 87 personal dps gain and Aimed Shot Glyph is 110 personal dps gain. Given that both IHM talents and HM glyph are also gains for your other hunters, simply doing the math shows that taking Hunter's Mark glyph is only optimal when there are two or more hunters.

I carry a stack of aimed, kill shot and hunter's mark glyphs and alternate them between fights regularly. Usually burning 2-3 of each a week. Think of them as a raiding consumable.

Checking these numbers are simple for yourself. Just alternate the Hunter's Mark buff settings to "Yes", "3/3" and "3/3 /w glyph" while you have no third glyph active. I suggest taking turns with your hunters as to who gets to be the debuffing bot.

MizarAlcor · 01/21/10, 10:38 AM

Originally Posted by zakaria

Thanks for the clearance for the difference between % damage modifiers and %AP modifiers for this certain issue, but the question is. Is this intended or it's considered as bug? Does rest of the classes that have refreshing spells (or similar mechanic) work in same rule in terms of their AP/SP/%dmg modifiers?

It is either intended, or a design oversight that is simply left out because it is not deemed overpowered for the class. Otherwise, Blizzard would have fixed it otherwise.

A couple other classes also utilize similar kind of mechanic, for example :
- Warlocks' talent Everlasting Affliction - Spell - World of Warcraft will preserve whatever crit stacking is done on their Corruption - Spell - World of Warcraft original cast (an ingame fix added shadowbolt, tooltip probably not updated yet). As such, they have to recast Corruption - Spell - World of Warcraft during a crit trinket proc before refreshing it with Shadow Bolt - Spell - World of Warcraft for the rest of the fight. In fact, from what I heard, they are now experiencing the bug that doesn't allow them to recast lower-powered Corruption on top of the higher-powered one. Similar to what we had once with Serpent Sting and Mirror of Truth proc stacking.

- Shadowpriests' skill Pain and Suffering - Spell - World of Warcraft will preserve whatever damage bonus done on their Shadow Word: Pain - Spell - World of Warcraft original cast. As such, for example, they have to recast their Shadow Word: Pain - Spell - World of Warcraft when their talent Shadow Weaving - Spell - World of Warcraft reaches full 5 stacks before keeping it refreshed with Pain and Suffering - Spell - World of Warcraft for the rest of the fight.