I followed the thread to the end and several other threads. It was never mentioned that this got fixed.

Hopefully there are not many players who thought this is still the case.

I've run some quick tests on dummies using my current build and gear: The World of Warcraft Armory

Although by using the full gear and build I have adds in a fair bit of variability, I think the results from 50 x chimera shot refreshes on a level 80 target dummy (to avoid the small chance of misses I have by not yet hit capping), with and without using Glyph of Serpent Sting should prove it now affects Chimera Shot damage considerably.

Buffs: TSA, AotDH, Serpent Sting applied without Greatness proc. The tests only show the effect of the Serpent Sting proc and not the basic 125% weapon damage from Chimera Shot.

Test 1 - No Glyph
50 Shots, 15 critical hits with Chimera Shot
Non-critical damage mean = 1266
Critical damage mean = 2793

Test 2 - Glyph of Serpent Sting
50 Shots, 17 critical hits with Chimera Shot
Non-critical damage mean = 1773
Critical damage mean = 3904

Therefore I can conclude in this brief DPS test I gained approximately +44% non critical and +40% critical damage from Chimera Shot's Serpent Sting proc by using Glyph of Serpent Sting.

50 Shots is not really a good amount to be calculating Mean from.

Still, it's fairly clear that the Glyph does affect Chimera Shot's damage.

I think what Fastjack is confusing with the Glyph of SrS is that with the patch Chimera was no longer refreshing the existing AP value from the sting. Meaning if you had a AP proc from a trinket and/or Call of the Wild and applied a Serp Sting it was not "rolling" that higher AP sting after each Chimera. I haven't yet heard if this was intentional or bugged, while I hope they revert it back to how it was, I'm also not holding my breath that they do.

As for the Glyph from everyones testing and my own I'm sure it is safe to say that it is indeed working.

Looks like you have gotten a lot of good feedback, one additional thought I had in reviewing your WWS was that you only fired 17 Arcane shots and based on the fight duration you had a potential of firing 25 if you hit every cooldown. I know you cant get a full 25 Arcanes but the goal of the shot weaving each time should be to maximize number of Chimera, then Arcane, then Aimed and Steady is only used to fill time but not clip other cooldowns. I dont have it down perfect myself and that is why I look over my WWS parses after every Naxx run. Hope this helps.

I'm not sure if it was mentioned yet, but you have 2 points into GFTT. Since you should be critting enough to keep your pet focus fed, how about putting that point (and perhaps the point in Impr Barrage) into Rapid Killing? For 3 min+ fights its 4 Rapid Fires and addt'l dmg when you kill an add and gain Rapid Killing. If every fight for you is less than 3 minutes (or even the majority) then I can see it would be a waste.

Also I thought it was decided that only going 2/5 in UF in order to pick up SI was the better choice?

To be honest, your gear is not bad, but there is still a lot of room for improvement with having 4 blues and several lower end epics. This is a definitely a factor in how your DPS will be relative to others that are bettered geared. The other hunter in your report has much better gear than you do, which accounts for a lot of the differences. Also, your professions are both low so you are not yet getting much benefit from them.

In addition, you have a little extra hit rating that is unused, but have +20 hit on your gloves. I would suggest instead doing 20 agility to your gloves and using Icewalker on your boots instead. Sure you will lose a little AP with this, but you will gain more than enough crit to compensate for it. However, it's not that huge of a difference, so its not necessary to change.

Your spec also looks fine. You have all the essential talents, and although you made some choices different from what I have made they are still valid choices. (Although it appears that this is a different spec than that used for the WWS since it shows ISS procs but you no longer have the talent.)

Looking at your Patchwerk data, you did good DPS with the gear you have, but you ended up 14th in DPS, which I find surprising unless everyone else is much better geared than you. Looking through your WWS, I did notice a couple items.

The biggest was your arcane shot to chimera shot ratio is a little high. It was pretty much at about the ideal ratio assuming no lag and priorities. From this and your rotation list above, it seems like you are giving Arcane Shot higher priority than your Chimera Shot. This is incorrect. Other than Kill Shot when its available, Chimera Shot should be your highest priority shot. For that fight (for which I know variability exists), your average CS did 7686 damage while AS did only 3201, which is well more than twice as much. Thus, when both Chimera and Arcane are coming of CD, you should be using Chimera instead. If you use Arcane instead, you push back your Chimeras resulting in less of them per fight and lower DPS. I would also use Chimera Shot first at the start of fights so that you can do more of them per fight. As an example, in my Patchwerk fights, I am able to do a Chimera every 11s while you have 12s between yours.

Looking at the All Bosses report, I noticed that you never used any AoE abilities (Volley and Multishot). I realize that AoE is not a viable option on many boss fights, but they are very useful on some. This includes Noth when he is up in his the balcony and you are killing his skeleton adds and Gluth to kill the Zombie Chow during deccimate. It appears that the other hunter in your raids used both AoE abilities during those boss fights. I would recommend that you do the same. When AoEing, I use Multishot first (usually with MD to help manage my threat) then Volley with using Multishot again when it is off CD between Volleys.

From the data in your WWS, those are the two major items that I noted besides your gear. The only other items I can think that would have affected you are your choice of glyphs and consumables. I use Steady Shot, Serpent Sting, and IAotH glyphs (the 3rd is debatable depending on preferences). For cosumables, I use either the +40 agi or +80 AP food for myself and the +30 str food for my pet and use Mighty Agility and Mighty Thoughts elixers.

Hey Whytefyst, thanks for the reply!

So, from what I can tell, what I need to do better is:
a.) Use Chimera Shot more often, put it over all other shots, every single time
b.) use AoE when available?

Also, for the glyphs I'm using the same. In a raiding environment I rarely find myself using viper, espesically on bosses.

Another quick question: I'm being convinced by some of my fellow officers that my DPS is low, but from time to time I have my doubts. Reading blue posts I've seen that when classes complain about their low damage it's due to them not being on top of the meters -- so what I mean to ask, is my DPS not low, as much as those above me are high?

Too, what do you tend to do on a dummy when unbuffed? Does 2600 sound as low as I think it does?

Thanks again for the response, I really appreciate the help.

From what I've been seeing the use of aimed shot is more than just including it in your rotation. MM specs are all very similar with the exception of a few talents points, and if you go with aimed shot it should dictate where the remaining points go.

You have spec'd 2 points in imp steady shot and only 1 in imp barrage. The purpose of including aimed shot in the rotation is to remove another steady, and by doing that you lower the total number of SSs fired between CSs, and it would also eat charges of imp steady for a net effect of less procs and less mana gained/damage done per proc. I think you would see more benefit from those points putting them in imp barrage, or possibly WQ or UF. AS is an all or nothing shot, IMO.

Also, I would agree with going full rapid fire+rapid recupe. MM specs in general are very mana intensive, spec'ing AS only makes that worse. The mana savings from those 4 talent points in conjunction with readiness are very substantial from the reduced cost under RF alone, and any fights with adds can boost their value even more. An AS killing blow on an add will give you double your mana back for it, and volleys are (in effect) free.

I have a quick question, I origonally had gone from MM to BM in BC as with my fps and lag were to bad for manual shot weaving and the steady macro greatly improved my DPS. Well now I am toying with going MM again since auto is now no longer clipping. Now I know my spec is awful at 3/65/3 but I am just playing with it. Now I also know my gear is shit cause I don't get to raid much.

However I am looking forward to the 10 mans my guild is runnign and getting geared for it. However at this point what I need help with is my talent spending and shot rotation. Right now I am using serpent-aimed-chimera-steady-aimed-chimera-steady well steadys when the aimed and cihimera are on cool down. I find I am useing way to much mana as compared to when I was BM and only seeing about 1400-1600 dps in 10 mans even with my shit gear. So should arcane be in there, should I even be using aimed, what should my talents be redone as the 15-51-? that I hear so much of?

2600 DPS at the target dummy self-buffed is really quite normal. In my case I sometimes get a 3000 DPS 'lucky crit row' but otherwise my DPS lies around 2600 each time I test (multiple times per day) until OOM.

Hi guys! Here is my current spec for MM. Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft

I have TSA, Aimed Shot and Serpent Sting glyphs.

During our Naxx raids I would always be between top 1-5 of our 10-man group. I don't currently have great epic gears at the moment unlike my other guildmates but I can say that I can output great dps. Mana was an obstacle but the proc in RR and swapping AoTV after every pull (when running to next mob) greatly helps in regenerating your mana.

Aimed shot may not be a great skill to have in PVE but having an instant cast skill with high percentage of crit and damage is great when you need to run around while fighting.

Any comments/opinions on my build? Thanks all!

I have not been able to test or look at a wws in detail yet but last night my dps was clearly lower then pre patch 3.0.9.
I have been mainly MM 11/53/7 (add a few variations) since LK and have changed ma shot cycle only after le steady shot nerf from SS/CS to SS/CS + AS.

Has anybody seen a change ? I had a little lag but doubt it came from that.

To the above two posters: Sorry, I love to help my fellow Marksmen out, but you are not providing any information for me to analyse. Please provide at the very least a DPS number + fight information, but at best please provide a full WWS parse. Without this kind of info you might as well ask "Is this shirt a lighter shade of blue than the other one" without showing me, well, either shirt

Of course I plan to check wws and recount logs but as I said I haven't had time yet and prefer to have a second raid to see if last night was not just bad karma ^^.The purpose of my post was to get a head start in case there is a change in MM dps as a whole.

If the problem persists I will link as much info as possible.

Switched to MM for this week's naxx and wasn't too disappointed with the numbers

Wow Web Stats

Going over the parse, I feel like my crit rate was on the lower end of the spectrum this fight compared to what it should be but given a faster kill time and a higher crit rate, I think marks could actually push the high 5k to 6k mark. Still, survival is going to be ahead of marks but the gap is slowly closing after the last hotfix to explosive shot damage.

I've also considered swapping my Fury of the Five Flights with Mirror of Truth. The extra crit would definately help a lot and it just feels like the proc synergies a lot better with the darkmoon trinket.

My opener shot would be:
Arcane Shot
Auto Shot
Aimed Shot
(Darkmoon should proc and HOPEFULLY, I gain reflection of torment)
Pop Blood Fury, Call of the Wild, Rapid Fire
Max damage Serpent Sting
Chimera Shot
Arcane Shot
Readiness
Chimera Shot
Arcane Shot
Aimed Shot

then regular rotation with steadies, arcanes, aimed, and chimeras.

45 seconds into the fight, Darkmoon should proc again, and hopefully reflection of torment at the same time, and this is where I'll use my second Rapid Fire.


I'm pretty disappointed with Wild Quiver damage, as for a 3 talent point investment, it attributed to only 1% of my damage. What I hate about imp steady shot though, is that with my rotation, I don't really get that many steady shots in therefore lowering the value of this talent. I'll probably still keep WQ as I feel that patchwerk parse was pretty unlucky as far as procs/crit rates were concerned and I should pull about 5.5k+ in general.

Seems like on most of the fights, I'll be behind the survival hunter of equal gear about 500-600 dps which is not as bad as I thought it would be as I was expecting to be 900+ dps behind according to spreadsheet numbers.

MM should get MUCH better comparatively to the other specs if blizzard goes through with their announced 3.1 changes to the tree and also tones down survival damage.

The mechanics of SrS under CS refresh have changed. You can no longer put up a max SrS and then have CS constantly refresh it at that same DPS rate. As a result, waiting for you trinkets to pop is lowering your overall DPS as your delaying your most damaging shot, CS, and so won't fire as many during a fight.

Wow thats my bad...

I did some really sloppy testing right before raid and didn't see serpent sting damage change when my cooldowns dropped and assumed they'd stay at max power if refreshed by Chimera Shot.

Seems like Chimera Shot now recalculates current AP for the serpent sting damage... or is it done differently?

I guess the my opening shots are gonna change to something like
Pop Trinkets
Serpent Sting
Chimera Shot
Arcane Shot
Aimed Shot
Readiness
Chimera Shot
Arcane Shot
Aimed Shot

Clarifications:
a) Yes, except that Kill Shot when available has even higher priority since it provides even more damage. What I try to do is always fire my Chimera Shot and Aimed Shot consecutively since they are both have the same CD length. I then fire Arcane Shot whenever it is off CD and Chimera/Aimed Shot are not.
b) When to use AoE is a judgement. Here is my philosophy. I never use it on single targets or when we are trying to CC anything close. On dual targets, I do not use volley. I single target the focus target with throwing in Multishot instead of Aimed Shot in my rotation to hit both targets. On groups of three or more with no CC, I use both Multishot and Volley as stated before. In addition, I monitor the health of the focus target for the single target DPS (or tab through the targets while channeling Volley if there is not a focus to see the one with the lowest health) and will use Kill Shot when it is available.

Whether your DPS is low or not is a matter of perspective. For your gear, your DPS is pretty good, and fixing those two problems above will help it. However, for the performance of your guild, your DPS is relatively low. However, this seems to be mainly due to relative gearing. Tell your officers that you just need to pick up some better gear on the runs and that your DPS will go up.

As an alternative to that stated above, ISS can still be an effective talent with the right rotation. If you always fire Aimed Shot immediately after Chimera Shot since they have the same CD duration, then Aimed Shot will never eat ISS procs. Even with Arcane Shot and Aimed Shot in the rotation, you still do 2-3 Steadies per Chimera rotation. As I have indicated in past posts, ISS procs are by far my most frequent proc during full Naxx clears on boss fights, and I estimate that with how my rotation is that at least 60% of them are still be used by Chimera Shot with the other 40% by Arcane Shot. So the question is which is more important for single target fights - 12% more crit on every Aimed Shot or 15% more crit and 20% mana savings on every third Chimera Shot and about every 4th Arcane Shot? Which works out better depends on the raltive shot damage of those 3 shots and whether the mana svaings makes a difference in your DPS.

Excellent rotation explanation Whitefyst. One addition:

Since Kill Shot does not invoke the GCD, you can macro it together with all your shots (Chimera, Aimed, Arcane, Steady) so that it will fire together with that shot if available. Really quite nifty!

An example would be:

I had this already done on my SS macro and had not previously bothered to add it to my Chimera Shot since I didn't feel it was necessary to create a CS macro just to do it when I could just tap my SS one again. However, that was pre-3.0.8, and the situation is much different now. Since I am not doing as many SSs, I should add it to the other shots in the rotation. Thanks for the pointing this out! I had previously overlooked this as a 3.0.8 impact.

Guys i have a query concerning Marked for Death. Marked for death description says "Increases the damage done by your shots and the damage done by your pet's special abilitys by #% on marked targets" (#% being the amount of points invested in it.).Then it goes on to say " and increases the critical damage bonus of Aimed Shot, Arcane Shot, Steady shot, Kill shot, and Chimera shot by #%" pending on the points that is invested in it. What my query is, is the 2nd part of the description (after the "and") independent of the mark? Just like the "Noxious Sting" talent that says "If Wyvern Sting is dispelled, the dispeller is also afflicted with Wyvern Sting lasting 16% of the duration remaining" but then adds the 2nd part which exists in the talent irrespective of the 1st part, "and does #% of damage by you on targets inflicted by serpent sting". I dont always keep Hunter Marks on target, or at least Mark trash, so im curious to know if i will still benefit from the 2nd half of Marked for death irrespective of the mark? Thank you very much guys. :-)