I managed to pull off 6100 dps on Thorim phase 2 today as MM, and mana wasn't an issue at all. I didn't even go below 50% I think and I have 0/5 efficiency. So mana really doesn't look like a problem for 25 mans anymore. And dps wise it's very close to survival for sure. With double T8, it might even be better.
On Thorim, your target will always have JoW, however, on other fights such as Razorscale, they won't always have it. Then, you'll have mana problems.
About Barrage... a strong volley will drop scrapbots faster, allowing you to DPS XT for more time. And that's not the only boss that it would help.
Spreadsheet assumes tank and spank, which is not Ulduar. I'm not saying that the spreadsheet is not valuable info: it's great but it shouldn't be set on stone, ignoring other talents/spec because its dps is lower there. Like someone said, Hawk Eye can be helpful, while for the sheet it's worth is 0.
The discussion was about imp. Barrage, not Barrage.
I take imp. Barrage over ISS, cause i find it more useful on all Bosses where you have to move a lot, and this results in even less Steadyshots. So it`s harder to maintain the PS debuff.
On the question about pet revive:
You can make a dualspec like i did (16/55/0) to switch to this spec, if you need pet revive very often on a certain fight, TSA in general, or if you have no use for IT.
I'm working on my own spreadsheet for quite some time, I recently added shot rotation simulation like Cheeky's, and I also incorporated Improved Steady Shot according to the simulation model. (I don't know if Cheeky is doing it that way).
Basically the simulation lists your next 400 shots according to your priority choice, and then the spreadsheet checks how many steadyshots are fired before each Chimera/Arcane/Aimed shot consecutively. If there is 1 steadyshot fired before an Arcane, it calculates the average damage of Arcane shot according to that. It does it for every single shot in that 400 shot list. And then adds up total damage, and you can see the exact dps contribution of improved steady shot and it's extremely weak.
Gives around 30 dps for 3/3. So it looks like it's the least important talent in the MM arsenal atm.
I don't believe barrage to be a weak talent at all. So far almost all the fights I've encountered in uldar have required volley to be used more then once. I also don't understand how buffing aimed for higher piercing shot ticks is a bad thing either.
You can argue Imp barrage to not be so great.
Also are you guys actualy using silencing shot as dps? 50% weapon dmg > steady?
I don't believe barrage to be a weak talent at all. So far almost all the fights I've encountered in uldar have required volley to be used more then once. I also don't understand how buffing aimed for higher piercing shot ticks is a bad thing either.
You can argue Imp barrage to not be so great.
Also are you guys actualy using silencing shot as dps? 50% weapon dmg > steady?
Silencing Shot is off the gcd, so ofc we are using it. It's an extra shot, which doesn't cancel any other shot in your rotation.
I don't believe barrage to be a weak talent at all. So far almost all the fights I've encountered in uldar have required volley to be used more then once. I also don't understand how buffing aimed for higher piercing shot ticks is a bad thing either.
You can argue Imp barrage to not be so great.
Also are you guys actualy using silencing shot as dps? 50% weapon dmg > steady?
As Sienna said, its a free shot, except for the mana cost. And there are some fights where another ranged interrupt can be useful.
I have seen a lot of people talking about macroing it into their Steady Shots or all their shots. This is a fine way to do it depending on your situation.
I have chosen only to macro it into my Chimera Shot (at least for now with no Chimera glyph). This is for the following reasons:
1) The 20s CD on Silencing Shot is a multiple of the 10s CD I have on Chimera Shot, so it works well grouping them. (Although if I had it macroed to every shot, I could possibly get a couple more Silencing Shots off per fight since I do not always to Chimera immediately off CD, but its close enough that I really do not see much reason for the extra macros and maintenance of them.)
2) THe flexibility for fights when I need to use Silencing Shot as an interrupt. My action bars also have a Chimera Shot macro without Silencing Shot, which I use on those fights so I can use Silencing Shot to interrupt casts when needed. If I had it macroed into more shots, it would cause more problems for this type of situation.
As Sienna said, its a free shot, except for the mana cost. And there are some fights where another ranged interrupt can be useful.
I have seen a lot of people talking about macroing it into their Steady Shots or all their shots. This is a fine way to do it depending on your situation.
I have chosen only to macro it into my Chimera Shot (at least for now with no Chimera glyph). This is for the following reasons:
1) The 20s CD on Silencing Shot is a multiple of the 10s CD I have on Chimera Shot, so it works well grouping them. (Although if I had it macroed to every shot, I could possibly get a couple more Silencing Shots off per fight since I do not always to Chimera immediately off CD, but its close enough that I really do not see much reason for the extra macros and maintenance of them.)
2) THe flexibility for fights when I need to use Silencing Shot as an interrupt. My action bars also have a Chimera Shot macro without Silencing Shot, which I use on those fights so I can use Silencing Shot to interrupt casts when needed. If I had it macroed into more shots, it would cause more problems for this type of situation.
Seems to me its rather waiseful if you use it as a interupt in pve since you wont be using it every cd. But is the dmg actualy worth 6% of your mana.
does anyone know how the bleed effect actually works. i have specced into barage, improved barrage, trueshot glyph(10% increased aimed shot crit) and the aimed shot glyph, and am trying to figure out if it actually resets on each application, or if it stacks with the previous bleed. any help on the subject would be great
Seems to me its rather waiseful if you use it as a interupt in pve since you wont be using it every cd. But is the dmg actualy worth 6% of your mana.
Well if you don't have mana, don't shoot it. When you do have mana to spare, it's almost 70 dps with single talent, which is a lot more than many other talents you take.
does anyone know how the bleed effect actually works. i have specced into barage, improved barrage, trueshot glyph(10% increased aimed shot crit) and the aimed shot glyph, and am trying to figure out if it actually resets on each application, or if it stacks with the previous bleed. any help on the subject would be great
It works like this. If you crit chimera for 8k it will start ticking for 300 dmg a second since 30% of 8k is 2400.
If you happen to crit a aim shot for 5k while the dot you just put on the target is still ticking (which is 187dmg a second) it will then add 187 to the 300 dot ticks from the 8k chimera. You should see 487dmg dots at the point.
Briefly after the 300dmg tick will expire since it only last 8 seconds and your only left with 187dmg ticks till you crit another steady, aimed or chimera. At that point it will add the new dmg to whatever dot is still up.
So no matter what, the 8 ticks from your crit will not get over written but instead added together and tapering off as they expire.
Well if you don't have mana, don't shoot it. When you do have mana to spare, it's almost 70 dps with single talent, which is a lot more than many other talents you take.
I would agree that silencing shot is a useful shot. I know some here have reported no mana problems with most if not all Uldar encounters (and the spread sheet reflects that), but in my personal situation, with my gear/talent build, if the boss or adds do not have mana for me to leech, I will go oom (Some encounters such as Razorscale, I switch to viper until full when she is back up).
So far, we have only been able to down Razorscale, but have attempted Ignis and XT-002 quite a few times (and as well as the trash on the way), and so far, in my opinion, Steady Shot is not to be relied upon. These encounters require a lot of movement and or target switching, placing a much greater value on instants, and pet dps. With all of this in mind, I have taken a long hard look at a cunning pet (wind serpent/dragonhawk) for roar of recovery. With the amount of time bosses are sitting at 35% or below reduces the dps gap with a wolf , for example(with a cunning pet the dps increase is significant at this point).
Either way I will test it out on Tuesday, but I was hopping for some feedback, maybe even if some one has already tried using a cunning pet for mana reasons.
Seems to me its rather waiseful if you use it as a interupt in pve since you wont be using it every cd. But is the dmg actualy worth 6% of your mana.
The main reason I have Silencing Shot is for the DPS boost with normally using it everytime it is off CD. On most fights, even in 10-mans, I am not worried about the mana cost. On fights where it causes a problem, as others have said, I can choose to not use it those fights.
When I was referring to using it as an interrupt, I was referring to rare situations where it is needed as such, typically in some 10-man encounters where there is a cast that needs to be interrupted everytime its done and the raid does not have sufficient interrupt CDs to cover them all without me using Silencing Shot to help.
Not all battles are straight up tank and spanks. In many of them, certain characters have specific roles that they need to accomplish to improve the chances of successully downing a boss. One such case is interrupts. Other classes, such as rogues and mages to name a few, have had to reduce their DPS from time to time to help interrupt boss abilities that could make defeating that boss much more difficult (or impossible) if the ability is not interrupted. If I have a selected talent that can interrupt as well, there is no reason that I shouldn't do my share of the interrupt duties when necessary, especially when the interrupt target is one that melee interrupters should avoid, such as the Stormcaller when he is in the middle of a death rune.
A few initial reactions as a marks hunter in 25 man Ulduar running with this spec:
-Mana is fine with 2/2 rapid recoop. I've yet to actually need to use viper sting/aspect (granted we have plenty of replenishment and a protadin plus a retadin, so JoW is reliable). If you're having trouble with mana I would suggest fixing your raid before sacrificing valuable dps talents in efficiency. I also have been using silencing shot macroed to my aimed shot.
-There will be no more stand and shoot. While there are certainly still short burn periods in fights where the onus is on the dps to stand and deal as much damage as possible, mobility is paramount for the vast majority of the content I have seen thus far (and I have no reason to expect the remainder will be any different). An emphasis should be placed on abilities that can be used effectively on the run. The ability to maintain strong dps despite movement is what will separate the good hunters from the best.
-The Chimera Shot glyph is worth using. Wowmeter has been reporting (with the glyph) between 19-25% of my damage is coming from Chimera Shot, this does not include piercing shots. You do the math.
-Steady shot is becoming increasingly less important. As a class with 3 different instant shots in my rotation, if there is any movement during a fight at all, steady shot hardly seems to get used. On Hodir for example, steady shot was responsible for a whopping 3% of my dps, glyphed no less. Most fights saw steady shot between 6%-10% not including piercing shots.
-It is clear to me that the Chimera shot glyph and the serpent shot glyph are our best two by a significant margin. Third seems to be up to either Kill shot, steady shot, or aimed shot. More testing will be required to be certain, but despite my suspicions about kill shot that I voiced earlier in this thread, there are just so many different mobs below the 20% threshold at different times in so many of these fights that a more frequent kill shot will be quite an asset. I swapped from steady to KS late last night and we'll see how it goes.
A few initial reactions as a marks hunter in 25 man Ulduar running with this spec:
-Mana is fine with 2/2 rapid recoop. I've yet to actually need to use viper sting/aspect (granted we have plenty of replenishment and a protadin plus a retadin, so JoW is reliable). If you're having trouble with mana I would suggest fixing your raid before sacrificing valuable dps talents in efficiency. I also have been using silencing shot macroed to my aimed shot.
Agree with this. We downed 8 bosses so far and with 2/2 RR and 3/5 efficiency, my mana hardly goes below 80% as MM, even in long fights. I'll probably lose some efficiency and put it somewhere else next raid.
About Aimed Shot Glyph, it's the most useless glyph for MM. Pick SS glyph instead, it seems to be the best 3rd glyph so far.
It works like this. If you crit chimera for 8k it will start ticking for 300 dmg a second since 30% of 8k is 2400.
If you happen to crit a aim shot for 5k while the dot you just put on the target is still ticking (which is 187dmg a second) it will then add 187 to the 300 dot ticks from the 8k chimera. You should see 487dmg dots at the point.
Briefly after the 300dmg tick will expire since it only last 8 seconds and your only left with 187dmg ticks till you crit another steady, aimed or chimera. At that point it will add the new dmg to whatever dot is still up.
So no matter what, the 8 ticks from your crit will not get over written but instead added together and tapering off as they expire.
It doesn't work like that at the moment. The newest tick will just overwrite the old one. We don't know if it'll be changed in the future since blizzard did not reply to it on official forums yet.
Seems to me its rather waiseful if you use it as a interupt in pve since you wont be using it every cd. But is the dmg actualy worth 6% of your mana.
It doesn't cost 6% of your mana. It costs 6% of your base mana, which is going to be roughly 300 mana. That's a fairly small cost to pay every 20 seconds.
Concerning piercing shots,
Will the periodic bleed damage always be refreshed with each application of an aimed/steady/chim shot crit?
For example, you score a 10k chim shot crit and a few shots into your rotation you score a 5k aimed shot crit, will the bleed off the chim shot still be active or will the bleed off the aimed shot take effect?
Concerning piercing shots,
Will the periodic bleed damage always be refreshed with each application of an aimed/steady/chim shot crit?
For example, you score a 10k chim shot crit and a few shots into your rotation you score a 5k aimed shot crit, will the bleed off the chim shot still be active or will the bleed off the aimed shot take effect?
I was under the impression that it worked like deep wounds and you got the remainder of your old dot credited to your new one. While I haven't tested it out, the numbers I'm seeing from piercing shots would suggest this.
It doesn't work like that at the moment. The newest tick will just overwrite the old one. We don't know if it'll be changed in the future since blizzard did not reply to it on official forums yet.
If that were true that doesn't explain why my average piercing shot's tick was 443dmg in this link.
The only way for me to have a average of 443 considering steady crits tick for around 100 dmg would mean I would have to crit chimera for over 15k a few times. I've also seen piercing shots tick for max 1010 on boss attempts and I am not critting chimera for more then 13k.
I shouldn't even have to post a phrase go out and DL the latest recount try it on a dummy and compare your largest crits with your max PS tick and do the math. Theres no explanation other then they over lap the newest dot does NOT overwrite the last dot.
More crits in a row will produce larger PS ticks. It's not just the size of the crit, but how frequently you crit that will also raise the size of the dot.
A fun example is to go try the new PS on Loatheb and watch the fun.
<Blackpatch>: i feel so bad for north koreans
<Blackpatch>: imagine
<Blackpatch>: there are kids living 30 miles north of seoul
<Blackpatch>: who have never heard of banelings
<Bryne>: monkeys only throw shit everywhere because they're smart enough to realize: EVERYONE HATES SHIT
It was bugged for quite a while on the PTR, but piercing shots works exactly like Deep Wounds on that the new proc will make it recalculate to the combined damage until the original proc fades. This works correctly on live in every raid I've done since 3.1
The only way for me to have a average of 443 considering steady crits tick for around 100 dmg would mean I would have to crit chimera for over 15k a few times. I've also seen piercing shots tick for max 1010 on boss attempts and I am not critting chimera for more then 13k.
I shouldn't even have to post a phrase go out and DL the latest recount try it on a dummy and compare your largest crits with your max PS tick and do the math. Theres no explanation other then they over lap the newest dot does NOT overwrite the last dot.
My bad, I guess I didn't test it after the beta. Yes it seems to be fixed now.
Has anyone done tests or have data for [Glyph of Trueshot Aura] yet? It seems like a nice glyph, especially combined with Glyph of Aimed Shot, but I'm wondering if it has issues with Abo' Might / Unleashed Fury since they appear to temporarily overwrite TSA when they proc in raids.
Has anyone done tests or have data for [Glyph of Trueshot Aura] yet? It seems like a nice glyph, especially combined with Glyph of Aimed Shot, but I'm wondering if it has issues with Abo' Might / Unleashed Fury since they appear to temporarily overwrite TSA when they proc in raids.
Yes it has it's issues and is overwritten by temporary DK/Shammie buffs. And as it was covered few pages ago it falls back behind other ones if you have Abo's Might and/or UF.
04/20/09, 2:47 AM
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