Nomadi

i did the testing on target dummy with only fine light crossbow equipped. Bug confirmed. if there is even one point in marked for death, the glyph stops working.

i'd be really intrested to know this aswell.

 

Sombreblanco

I've only run the numbers through the spread sheet but even at just a glance, none of the other talents in the tree seem to even come close to what Marked For Death brings.

 

paniek

By the time the BM nerf will hit most will have better gear so with MM spec scaling better I think it would have done more dmg anyway, so what spec?!

I'm actually thinking of 20/42/0.
Thats 62 points spent so 9 left, its no questiion for me that I atleast have to get CS so 51 in MM, the problem however is wich talents would you choose to get there? It kinda comes down to 3 points, maybe 5 if you take away the 2/2 Rapid Recuperation because as soon you hit 45 in MM you the last 6 are obvious

• 2/2 GftT is just not needed, 1/2 is more then enough.
• 4/5 in Effieceny could be changed to 5/5
• 3/3 in Improved Stready Shot just, I don't like it, feels wrong. Steady Shot nerf inc, steady shot used as a fill up in a MM rotation and its max a 15% proc on a fill up shot. It must be really imba if you say its worth it.
• Keeping the line above about the Steady Shot in mind made me think to add either Multy Shot or Aimed Shot in my rotation. As Aimed Shot requires another talent point it will be Multy Shot.
• So we could take 3/3 Barrage, also nice to boost the nerfed volley up.
• If you take that you can consider removing the 2/2 in Rapid Recuperation taking
• 2/3 in Improved Barage
• Wild Quiver and Piercing Shot just not seems worth it

The 20 points in BM should speak for itself, Pets still do a nice amount of damage, if you take Unleashed Furry over Improved Traking why not take 4/5 Ferocity as well?

What you say? What Rotation can we use then? Arcane&Multy Shots + CS&Serp Sting using Steady Shot when everything else is on CD.

 

Nlkko

LnL procs rate is mediocre. Its Arcane Shots also use 1 GCD, which render it completely useless as its damage is mediocre and use more mana. It'd be worth testing if it doesn't use 1 GCD. The talent is supposedly for buffing Explosive Shots.

Also, it suprise me from time to time reading these thread that most MM hunters greatly underestimate the effect of Rapid Recuperation, and the combo Aimed Shot+ True Shot Aura Glyph. and Effiency requires too many points in it to be ... efficient.

The haste from Rapid Fire is not that good for MM, you'll find yourself firing shots too fast, faster than needed, as you should already stacking haste (I'm running around 610 atm). The mana reduction is extremely nice. You're looking at above 1k5 Mana save every Rapid Fire. Suppose the fight last long enough to pop another Readiness, you're looking at 6k-7k Mana save in 1 single fight.

Aimed Shot uses a lot of mana, however, in combination with a True Shot Aura Glyph, its crit rate is amazing, you're looking at around 60% crit rate. It's also an instant, so you can use on fights requires lots of movement, and still not lowering your DPS. 6 points total in Barrage and Improved Barrage is by no mean a "waste". If you're gonna waste 3 points in BM tree to go further down, might as well take those 6 points. Aimed Shot should already be in your rotation.
Also you'll find yourself using volley a lot of fights, more than before. Not everything is Patchwerk. Think Sartharion + 3, something like that. Buffing your pet still seems like a no no to me, yea we might do about the same DPS on patch, but I beat you everywhere else when your pet laying on the ground dead. Blizzard has introduced a lot of pet unfriendly fights, again think Sartharion + 3, Kel'Thuzad. Not mentioning the upcoming pet's nerf.

7/57/7 yields the best result so far for me. Here's a patchwerk's parse: Wow Web Stats

I've not seen a better MM's DPS. Educate me in case I miss.

Also takes in account that Steady Shot Glyph is broken (not affecting while having any point in Marked For Death), so don't expect a drastically low damage incoming from Steady Shot if the nerf indeed goes live, and they indeed fix the glyph bug.

Improved Steady Shot acts as a buffer for your finishers (Aimed Shot, Chimera Shot) and shold always be there. MM spec revolving around a lot of big crits, you don't want your finisher costing 800 Mana critting low.

Also, If you find your crit rate is low, by all means take 2/2 Survival Instinct.

Wild Quiver and Piercing Shots are indeed mediocre. 3/3 Wild Quiver you see around 2%, 1% or even 0.5% DPS increase (god forbid it procs when you're under viper).

 

Schniepel

If they are, wouldn't you be better off taking Aspect Mastery instead of those? Buffed by TSA thats 100 AP right there.

 

Endage

I'm specced 4/60/7, because I don't like to be dependent on my pet. I totally agree with you on Barrage on Aimed Shot Nlkko.

Your high damage mostly comes from the Scorpid Poison, which will get nerfed. I'm using a cat with a subpar spec (Heart of the Phoenix), so no CotW for me. Last night I came to this: WWS with a lower critrate than usual.

So yeah, MM should easily be able to do 5k+ DPS. I hope the nerfs won't hit next week, so I can retry with some gear upgrades.

But Aspect Mastery actually costs 4 talent points, that's not worth it in my opinion.

 

bomzix

20% of the dmg in that fight comes from scorpid and that will be nerfed above and beyond the talent nerfs. Between Scorpid poison and SS you have 41% of your DMG, if those take a 40% dive you're looking at 4120 DPS... Still pretty good.

Is a 40% Loss on pet and SS dmg optimistic?

And can you share your rotation and any macros you use to pull it off?

 

paniek

Its always good to listen and read others peoples ooiints, ty Nlkko.
Do you mind telling me alittle about you're rotation and the reason behind it.
I assume you open with:
Auto Shot,Serpent Sting,CS, by now +/- 3 seconds have passed, so I gues 1 or 2 steady shots, then aimed then steady again and your CS should be ready, etc. Then you have every 5 seconds a "special", read CS or Aimed Shot.

 

Endage

On any given bossfight it's usually:

Start:
Hunter's Mark
Rapid Fire
Serpent Sting
Chimera Shot
Readiness

Rotation:
Chimera Shot
Steady Shot
Steady Shot
Aimed Shot
Steady Shot
Steady Shot
Steady Shot
repeat

Rapid Fire when the first one times out. Try to avoid stacking too many haste effects, it's better to spread them over the fight. Shoot a new Serpent Sting when you are under the effect of Attack Power procs like Mirror of Truth. Not only does it increase your DoT from the Sting but also your Serpent Sting proc from Chimera Shot for the rest of the fight.
With this rotation you get the highest chance of getting Improved Steady Shot procs on your special attacks, saving mana and doing much more damage.

If the fight lasts longer than 4 minutes you can do some amazing stuff the last minute:
Rapid Fire
Chimera Shot
Kill Shot
Readiness
Chimera Shot
Kill Shot

Rapid Fire when the first one times out.

Those little tricks of getting the max out of Readiness and Attack Power procs really make a difference. You can see exactly what I do in the [browse log file] of my above posted WWS. Same for Nlkko's.

 

Har

So scorpids poison DoT will go up or down based on your attack power at the time of the tick, but serpent sting's damage per tick is locked to the AP you had when you made the shot?

 

Endage

Yes correct. That's why it's so good in a MM spec where you can refresh it with Chimera Shot, together with the proc from Chimera Shot.

Last Patchwerk I started with 774 Serpent Sting ticks. When my Mirror of Truth procced I fired a new Serpent Sting and until his death, my Serpent Sting ticks did 821 damage.

That's (47 * 5) * 0.4 = 94 extra base damage on Chimera Shot's Serpent proc too for the rest of the fight.

 

Selmarix

That behavior might seem weird, but originally the stacking DoT/HoT mechanic worked the same and only calculated the tick amount on first application and not on every refreshing.
But resto druids used that to keep amplified lifeblooms running so eventually it got nerfed.
Chimera Shot on the other hand is a different mechanic. It just resets the Serpent Sting DoT timer without any kind of stacking. So it is still the same Serpent Sting running and tick amount is not recalculated.

That the mechanic just resets the timer and does not recalculate tick amount can be seen by a bug that happened with the similar talent for corruption of warlocks during beta. Their 4t5 bonus increases the tick amount of corruption whenever you hit with shadowbolt on the target. Together with the DoT timer reset mechanic that allowed to increase the tick amount of corruption kept running to the maximum amount the WoW engine supports (2^29).

 

Dauglos

Here is a copy to my WWS last week using my current spec: 16/51/4

Wow Web Stats

I'm not sure what your gear was like when you downed Patchwerk, but I was still using many heroic blues and the gun from KT 10 man.

I could see your spec perhaps performing better after our nerfs, but currently I feel that it would be to mana intensive in the current raid environment.

 

KraxisSingular

You can also see that in Viper... The nerfed Serpent Sting will continue like that.

 

Namarus

Has anyone got any information on the interaction with the "new" viper mechanic and Chimera Shot?

 

Zwaineroth

I went back to this post, and given the nerfs coming up, I think this spec, or a variant, might be a very interesting one to try, particularly for 10 mans. I was thinking something along the lines of 40/31/0, with a Serpent->Steady->Arcane rotation. DPS would probably be below an optimal MM or BM build, but it seems worth it for bringing two excellent raid buffs, especially where they wouldn't exist otherwise. Mana consumption would probably be the biggest issue given that you get neither Invigoration nor the mana efficiency talents in the MM tree.

Does anyone else have thoughts on the optimal point allocations in BM and MM for such a spec?

 

Nlkko

I use Rapid Fire as a mana saver rather than a boost to my Atk Sp. I'm already at 1.7 draw speed when Quick Shots proc.

I use no macro, everything is hand-weaved. I start with Sting, Rapid Fire, Chimera Shot, Aimed Shot, Readiness (to weave in another round of Chimera Shot and Aimed Shot), then Steady Shot until the 2 finishers CD is up. Pop another Rapid Fire when the first one is done. At 1 minute mark, I'm sitting at above 80% Mana. Pretty sure if you don't have any point in Rapid Recuperation, you'd find yourself running your Viper soon.

Another trick is don't bother to Viper unless you're completely dry, as dry as can't use your finishers, you'll get more out of Replenishment that way. And only Viper up to about 30%, then switch back. Your Rapid Fire should be up by then, you're good to go for pretty much till the end of the fight. If fight don't last longer than 4 minutes, then wait till you fire your first Kill Shot, then use Readiness, you'll have 1 extra Kill Shot that way.

Pretty sure you can browse my armory, I'm still using the 10man bow, which is way worse than your 10man KT gun, you can see your finishers crit higher than me.

Like I said, think something out of Patchwerk's scenery. Sartharion + 3 something like that. I'll say it again, we might do about the same DPS on static fights, but I'll beat you everywhere else in pet unfriendly fights. If we're all speccing just to down lolpatchwerk, then sure.

I don't understand your argument of mana intensity, you have no point in Efficiency, nor Rapid Recuperation, pretty sure you'll go dry way before me, and on fights require massive AoE, like SArtharion +3, I'll get 12% mana back every Killing Blow, you'll get none.

My thoughts.

 

Alex234

Noone can answer to my question ?

 

legomyegolas

It was answered in the first post after yours...

 

paniek

Think I'm going to polish up my MM skills again then , just gotta find a addon that shows me when my CD's are up. I've all my main ability's hidden/binded. if anyone has a tip, I once saw a movie with Serius(hunter,pvp) and when his CD where up the icon got flashed in the center of the screen. anyone?!??!?!

back to topic

I see Steady Shot still being a big chunk of the DPS, anyone expecting to changes that as Steady Shot will be nerfed with 10%

 

Jerem

TellMeWhen maybe?
TellMeWhen - Addons - Curse

 

Alex234

Oh :\ Sorry.
But as the CD is 10 sec on chimera and serpent ticks every 3 sec - may be will be better to use chimera every 12 sec ?

 

Razzeh

Hi, I'm an MM Nelf Hunter and I was hoping someone could answer a question I have about hit rating, this question is specific to MM builds so I thought I'd post here.

I wasn't particularly worried about my dps a few days ago so I wasn't looking into stats that much, I just checked what the new hit rating cap was and a couple more things.

The thread I checked for that stated that the Hit Rating cap for a hunter with 3/3 FA was 197.

But after reading the Hit Rating thread here yesterday, it seems that the Hit cap for the hunter itself (with the same talents) is 166, the catch being that FA doesn't count for the pet.

I haven't had a chance to do a raid/heroic yet but I tested on a Heroic training dummy yesterday and I'm getting no misses with 170 (as close as I could get to 166) Hit rating, while my pet was getting about 3% miss rate as expected.

Someone in the Hit Rating thread mentioned that the dummy might be bugged, I don't know if this is true and I'm gonna keep track on tonight's raid with the same 170 rating, but until then, assuming these numbers are right (please correct me if that's not the case), my question is:

Is it worth keeping your Hit rating at 166 and get AP/agi gems/gear, or would you gain more DPS from capping your pet's hit rating as well?

I'm using a cat at the moment and from the little I've seen on recount it seems to be around 20% of my damage, assuming a 3% miss rate that would mean a total of 0.60% damage decrease. I suppose an easy comparison would be 2 16 hit gems vs 2 32 AP gems, but I don't know exactly how much damage those AP gems would mean.

I hope I made my point clear, I tried not to make it confusing <.<

And I'm sorry if I made any wrong assumptions of calculations, especially on the pet's damage, that's a very rough calculation, any feedback is appreciated.

 

Schniepel

Granted, pet unfriendly encounters may cripple BM dps if you can't offset the unfriendlyness with good pet management. But appart from that I found non-static fights to be a much greater hassle for MM since you can't possibly maintain a proper serpent/chimera rotation on a boss while killing adds/dodging stuff/getting stunned a lot, which happens in the majority of encounters. As a Beastmaster you can use your pet as a fire-and-forget DoT and you don't really care what you are spamming steady shot at.

 

Drrakkainen

Schniepel exactly! I do my job pet does his, so heavy mobility fights but without severe pet death treat puts BM hunters in favour, with proper buffing etc. even on Sapphiron your pet will never die unless it runs into cleave.