MetallicaRulez0

I don't really make a habit of wasting glyph slots on things that are easily replaced by mage water. If that glyph is in your main spec, I would strongly advise you switch to whichever of Hawk/Kill/Chimera/Serpent you aren't currently using.

 

valiloramov

I think generally speaking, DPS counts most on boss encounters and that is also where we measure ourselves too. There's not many encounters where you'd use volley on bosses while all the other glyphs would be in use all the time making them much more valuable. Are you looking at "overall damage done" in recount? I'd probably look less at that number and more on the total against the bosses.

Looking at your gear, I'd say you're probably running Naxx and in there there's only 1 or 2 bosses where Volley can come in useful so I would drop the volley glyph (I'm trying to think which bosses, maybe Noth and Anub Rekhan in Naxx?).

You're also going with Aimed Shot which if you read above is also a bit questionable so I would consider dropping both Aimed and Volley and picking up 2 of: TSA, Chimera, Kill Shot or Hawk.

 

• Scotch

Trash is irrelevant. If you're wiping to trash because *you* are running out of mana then you have much bigger problems as a raid.

Taking that glyph is a horrible idea, glyph like a champion.

<Bryne|work>: Scotch is one of the least terrible hunters I have ever had the extreme displeasure to raid with.

Do not click this link

 

flashur

delete please

 

Kurianna

If you really don't want to take the time to drink between trash pulls, switch to Viper on the last mob. Stay there for the passive regen until the tank pulls the next group. All of our hunters do this. We never run out of mana on trash, and we never have to stop to drink. Of course, we don't volley much on trash in Ulduar, so that plays some part.

 

Anindor

A great tip is to pop viper sting onto one of the mobs in the pack before you volley. It's an often overlooked way to keep your mana up. It's also a great thing to do on certain multiple-mob boss encounters (e.g. Freya, Thorim, etc).

 

Mugsley

WWS has been doing that since 3.1. I've started compiling reports at WoWMeterOnline in parallel so I can do analysis. It astonishes me that it's taking so long for WWS to unbork itself.


Regarding glyphs: That analysis on Chimera is surprising. I've personally found that Chimera was just sitting, waiting to be shot a little longer if I had the glyph. I know part of that is playstyle and part is things like latency. I may give it a second look, though -- and tweak my playstyle.

The TSA glyph contribution is very surprising. I hadn't considered it since I felt it was so narrow in scope compared to other glyphs. (Aimed has to be buffed by at least 3 other talent points to make it worthwhile, and the return didn't seem all that great on the surface. Plus, in my 25, TSA is regularly overwritten by UR and the DK ability) That being said, depending on how the glyph works with TSA being overwritten, it may warrant a second look. As you say, at the least it's very valuable for 10-man.

 

ankah

Just a thought on this ongoing debate about which glyphs to use.

One of the advantages that MM has in ulduar is the ability to dps better than any other class/spec in the game. We have 4 instants that do really well, and as some have noticed by now, most boss encounters do involve quite a bit of movement (even most of the trash). While the chimera and aimed do not perform well in a controlled environment, they represent great damage value on the run, and there is just no way to measure it. We are talking about 3 seconds that otherwise would be wasted with ZERO damage as you run from fires, get thrown in the air, get behind the boss, run to free npcs, run thru a gauntlet, move out of the void, move into a buff area, move away from this or that. Any attempt to quantify the glyphs, at this junction, with the boss encounters we face, is a difficult, if not impossible task, and it comes down to preference.

 

sihyunie

I actually tried using chimera shot glyph last night. Because my guild is too lazy to post WWS parses, I can't analyze my combat log, but I didn't see chimera shot getting pushed back much, if at all. Of course during imp hawk proc, rapid fire, or heroism, chimera shot appeared to fire without pushing back (I was watching cooldown displayed by omnicc as well as watcher. Watcher feels especially good because if chimera shot gets pushed back, you can actually see the icon get moved a bit). Considering that hawk proc is up more than half the time, you actually fire chimera shot 1 or 1.5sec earlier, depending on what you do with 10 sec cd, for considerable duration. Cast bars on client side and on server side are unhinged since 2.3, so even without /stopcasting macro, if you just spam the buttons, your shots should fire without latency delay and that seemed to be the case as far as my last night's raid went.

 

DonTe

Oh Glyph of Volley is great! In Naxx, theres tons of trash so this was my #2 glyph of choice. (Right behind Serpent Sting). I still carry two of these around in my inventory, just in case I want to Volley Spam. After all, faster trash clears = faster dungeon clears = less time spent raiding = everyone happy = win.

But in Ulduar, there is less AoEing needed, and more single target DPSing. Most trash pulls are either 2-mob pulls, or situations where CC is required. This makes Glyph of Kill Shot shine a bit more. Also, the bosses in Naxx were a joke and didn't require you to even be the right spec, or glyph to clear. This allowed for you to use Volley glyph. At this point now, Volley glyph is more of a convenience than utility. Besides, a minimum of 1 point in Rapid Killing along with Rapid Recuperation should easily do the trick. AOE spam should net you the killing blow effortlessly. If you want a surefire killing blow, you have Kill Shot for a reason (and glyphed, hopefully!)

Plus, the entire hallway to Mimiron doesnt even need to be cleared. A hunter can pull the first pack of mobs out, and the raid can run in through that gap. The tanks will sacrifice themselves on each of the packs of mobs they encounter, bum rushing for that train. Rogues ToTT, Locks Voidwalker aggro, mages nova, its every man for himself! First person to reach the train starts it and takes off. As long as they don't fail Frogger 2.0, its all good. Just have the Survivor engage Mimi, die, and the teleporter will be free to use. =]

 

Joheltro

Just /cancelaura those two buffs in a macro where you put aimed last, and it should work fine.

 

Peldin

MM burst damage is excellent, far superior to the burst from BM or SV. However it is contingent on standing relatively still. Fights like Hodir and Auriaya can be very difficult as far as choosing the appropriate time to pop Rapid Fire. As it is stated over and over again in this thread and others "It's based on the mechanics of the fight."


Actually, much easier than this, just kill the first trash group, have a someone get in the vehicle and have your healers heal the vehicle back up to full. Just have that person jump/stomp on each set of trash with the vehicle while a couple paladins (or the whole raid) run to the train (using bubble if necessary).

 

bomzix

I have couple of questions for the community.

I can make a set with very high APr from Ulduar 10/25 ( excluding hard modes ) but I won't any of the set bonus since only the Helmet has APr.

How good are the Set Bonus? Are they worth sacrificing for about 200 APr ?

 

Anindor

First, WTF is APr? I can only assume you mean ArP (Armor Penetration). Second, the set bonuses are great. Just look at the 4p bonus, it's like a trinket proc. The 4p bonus basically works out to a 1/3 uptime 600AP buff. If you average that over time its like having 200AP all the time. 200AP is > 200ArP. Even though armor pen is now a decent stat, don't confuse that with it being the best stat. Things like AGI and crit still take precedence over ArP, it's just now a decent filler stat. Theoretically if you stack a ton of ArP (more ArP than is currently available) it could get really good; but I wouldn't bet on it as Blizzard has already stated that they are going to fix armor pen scaling past 100% reduction.

 

Pijn

The 2T8 set bonus is mandatory for MM hunters (currently its a 0.5% damage increase, if Blizz will 'fix' it so that it affects Chimera Shot as well it will be a 1.5% damage increase, which is alot for a set bonus).

The 4T8 set bonus is a joke, and it shouldn't be the reason to go for 4 or 5 pieces T8.5, just focus on the stats.

 

Kurianna

Is 200 Ap > 200 ArP? I may be reading the spread sheet wrong, but I'd say it takes 2 AP to beat 1 ArP, so 200 ArP should be better than 200 Ap. Some one please correct me if I'm wrong

As for the later poster that said the 4pc bonus isn't that great, I agree. It's decent, but 200 average Ap can be made up quickly by better itemized items (though thankfully t8 has better itemization than 7)

EDIT: I just plugged 200 ap then 200 arp into the spreadsheet, and 200 arp is indeed much better for my MM spec and gear. Milage may vary.

 

Tyranna

AP and ArP don't have a direct correlation. ArP gets better the more you have so it's extremely dependent on how much ArP you have already.

 

Whitemane

Why do you think the 4T8 bonus is a joke?

 

Kurianna

The SV thread has posts on testing the bonus vs the bonuses of other pure dps classes. The testing shows 90-100 dps value for the bonus, which appears to be way way below rogues and mages. This is crap, but I still can't beat the bonus with any combination not using hard mode gear.

I won't try to answer for the above poster, but just thought I'd reference the other thread in case someone hasn't seen it.

 

Keranna

My thought is that we're not really using Steady Shot enough to make it worthwhile. It's a mandatory filler but Marks has a lot of specials.

 

Anindor

The frequency of Steady Shot doesn't matter very much because the proc has the standard 45s internal CD of most trinkets. Since it lasts 15s, it has a max of 1/3 uptime. It has a high proc rate (15 or 25%, I don't remember) and, no matter what, you will be shooting off Steadys during your rotation so it will proc. Shooting off tons of steady shots would not increase the value of the 4p bonus. Whatever your numbers, 1/3 uptime 600AP is not insignificant by any stretch of the imagination. The gear is itemized well so there is very little reason to not go for the 4p bonus.

You can't say that x amount of AP proc = x amount of DPS. It depends on your other stats. Say I have 50% crit rating; 600 AP is going to do more damage for me than it is for someone who has 40% crit rating. The higher the gear level, the better the proc is because all of our stats scale together and cannot necessarily be valued independently.

On a second note, that test was done with people specced for SV. MM spec scales significantly better with AP than SV does.

 

Whitemane

It's still a fairly decent average AP boost averaged out. I agree it sucks that it procs off of steady shot only, but it is significant enough that it matters in what gear choices you should make. I'm not arguing against that it's a bit of a disappointment, but I also don't think that it's a joke to be entirely dismissed. At the moment it is modeled as quite the powerful buff in the spreadsheet, but it's obviously wrong. It's listed at 25% proc chance and 45s ICD, whereas wowhead lists the proc chance at 10% and tests have indicated a 60s ICD. Even with the new information, I don't think the bonus is entirely trivial. It's an extra bonus to ilvl 226 gear and as such the items that would be needed to replace it would need to be fairly powerful given how hunter itemization in general is fairly crappy. I think the only items that would have a chance to replace it are hit/crit and crit/arp gear and that is not exactly easy to come by, so we're talking about one piece per slot that could perhaps replace it.

 

Derchizul

Any word from Blizz yet if they gonna fix the 2set T8 bonus to benefit Chimera?

 

Anindor

It's not obviously wrong. My own testing seems to confirm the 45s internal CD. If it turns out to be 60s in testing then it is only because Steady Shot is in low priority and there can be quite a few GCDs between them.

 

Whitemane

The spreadsheet lists it as 45s ICD and the proc chance at 25%. I'm not sure where wowhead gets their proc chances, but they usually seem right so I have no reason to doubt that it is 10% and I have never seen anyone say anything to the contrary. Also there seems to be some doubt whether it it is 45s or 60s ICD. Anyways, it seems that the spreadsheet modeling is "obviously wrong".