Marksman questions - Page 6

zigmund555 · 12/12/08, 12:03 PM

I'm a WoTLK hunter, re-rolled from a druid just about 2 weeks before BC ended. I leveled all the way as BM and currently am doing heroics and 10-mans.

I'd like to try out a MM spec and was looking at a 7/57/7 spec, but that's flexible. My gear is in my profile but its all heroics/badge/crafted or dungeon blues.

A few questions:

1. What are the MM hunters using for major glyphs? I've read that steady glyph breaks with Marked for Death.

2. Does glyph of serpent sting do anything for MM if you're refreshing it with chimera every 10 secs?

3. Aimed vs. Arcane, I've seen a number of different analyses, but what do you think? I sounds like arcane is the better shot to weave in to the rotation.

bomzix · 12/12/08, 1:24 PM

You can even make a Pet especially for heavy AOE/Dot fights that can survive almost anything, certainly more than the hunter

Nomadi · 12/12/08, 1:29 PM

Originally Posted by zigmund555

I'd like to try out a MM spec and was looking at a 7/57/7 spec, but that's flexible. My gear is in my profile but its all heroics/badge/crafted or dungeon blues.

A few questions:

1. What are the MM hunters using for major glyphs? I've read that steady glyph breaks with Marked for Death.

2. Does glyph of serpent sting do anything for MM if you're refreshing it with chimera every 10 secs?

3. Aimed vs. Arcane, I've seen a number of different analyses, but what do you think? I sounds like arcane is the better shot to weave in to the rotation.

1. Rapid fire, imp. aspect of the hawk, and serpent sting. If you are not specced MfD, then Steady shot glyph should be picked over Rapid fire or imp. aoth.

3. Neither.

Here's my last patchwerk with 7/57/7.

WWS Loading...

No Flask was used, but I did have the extra 200ap from the bugged item Leggings of Colossal Strides - Item - World of Warcraft .

More info on the bug can be seen here Attack Power 200 - Spell - World of Warcraft .

Effect #1 Apply Aura: Mod Attack Power
Value: 200
Effect #2 Apply Aura: Mod Ranged Attack Power
Value: 400

Edit: Fixing grammar.

Jintra · 12/12/08, 1:59 PM

Originally Posted by Schniepel

Granted, pet unfriendly encounters may cripple BM dps if you can't offset the unfriendlyness with good pet management. But appart from that I found non-static fights to be a much greater hassle for MM since you can't possibly maintain a proper serpent/chimera rotation on a boss while killing adds/dodging stuff/getting stunned a lot, which happens in the majority of encounters. As a Beastmaster you can use your pet as a fire-and-forget DoT and you don't really care what you are spamming steady shot at.

#showtooltip Chimära Shot
/cast [Target=focus] Chimära Shot

can't remember, where to put "ifexists" but that can be read up at wowwiki -> macros.
Set the Boss as Focus (/focus) and you can spam Steady and Chimära like fire and forget-abilities.

Just a thought. Won't work in fights where you can't help but to run OOR of your focus. Everywhere else, it's a no brainer imho.

Largo · 12/12/08, 2:38 PM

Originally Posted by Nomadi

1. Rapid fire, imp. aspect of the hawk, and hunter's mark. If you not specced MfD then Steady shot over hunter's mark.

2. No. Glyph of serpent sting is useless for MM.

3. Neither.

ImageShack - Image Hosting :: chimeraserpentstingmp8.jpg

Seems like Glyph of Serpent Sting contributes to Chimera Shot dmg. Whether or not that is a larger boost than another combination of Glyphs is up to calculation.

Vec · 12/12/08, 2:41 PM

Even though we aren't sure about which nerfs are going live, I was wondering what people's initial thoughts are on which shots they will be using next patch. Will it be worth it to use aimed shot and arcane shot considering these would use more mana and potential talents/glyphs?

Æthien · 12/12/08, 3:04 PM

Latest bit of info from GC says that Arcane mana cost will be lowered to steadyshot cost, so I can see us using Serpent sting, Arcane Shot and Steady Shot in a rotation.

And Explosive Shot is apparently getting a massive buff >.>
(at least for testing on the PTR)

Nomadi · 12/12/08, 3:09 PM

Edit: Removed incorrent information.

mako · 12/12/08, 3:18 PM

Originally Posted by Nomadi

Serpent sting itself does contribute to chimera shot. However, for max dps we don't want to wait for the fifth tick that the glyph gives but rather shoot chimera when ever it's off the cooldown.

The fact that there's an additional tick with the glyph isn't important. The fact that an additional tick worth of damage is added to the serpent sting component of chimera shot, however, is significant.

So the idea glyph for MM is the serpent sting glyph.

Nomadi · 12/12/08, 3:27 PM

Edit: Removed incorrect information.

Vec · 12/12/08, 3:30 PM

Originally Posted by Æthien

Latest bit of info from GC says that Arcane mana cost will be lowered to steadyshot cost, so I can see us using Serpent sting, Arcane Shot and Steady Shot in a rotation.

And Explosive Shot is apparently getting a massive buff >.>
(at least for testing on the PTR)

Sounds good, thanks.

Largo · 12/12/08, 3:40 PM

One would hope they also fix the Steady Glyph/MfD Talent bug. I glyphed StS and haven't replaced it when I found out it was bugged >.>

strict9 · 12/12/08, 4:05 PM

I'm kind of anxious to try out MM spec. Part is because I'd enjoy another skill to weave in, part because I don't like relying on my pet so much, and part because I think it would give me more options in PVP until dual specs come out.

I was hesitating because my gear is somewhat mediocre (armory here), and I thought I'd need every bit of DPS I need for the raids I get to go.

After setting everything up in the spreadsheet, I show myself doing ~2900DPS in a 10-man raid as BM, and ~2700DPS as MM. But in a 25 man, I still do around 2900 as BM but 3400 as MM. I assumed MM would be scale better with gear (and hence be lacking until I got some better gear), but the spreadsheet doesn't seem to agree.

Did I do something wrong with setting this up, or might that really be the case?

Crackseed · 12/12/08, 4:22 PM

Originally Posted by Nomadi

So, are you suggesting it's the potential damage of serpent sting that counts instead of the damage it has done? In that case, there is a bug with the chimera shot tooltip.

Serpent sting duration increase should be irrelenvat for MM spec, since with Chimera shot it's there all the time anyway.

Everything I've read/seen shows that the extra duration on serpent sting affects the damage of serpent's bloom. As the extra tick is more damage, the bloom effect is amplified when you fire Chimera. Thus, the glyph, at least the present time - is a solid MM Glyph.

If this has been debunked, please correct me but I believe you're incorrect

mako · 12/12/08, 4:29 PM

Originally Posted by Nomadi

So, are you suggesting it's the potential damage of serpent sting that counts instead of the damage it has done? In that case, there is a bug with the chimera shot tooltip.

Serpent sting duration increase should be irrelenvat for MM spec, since with Chimera shot it's there all the time anyway.

I'd say I'm stating a fact as opposed to making a suggestion.

There's nothing wrong with the chimera shot tooltip. It states "Serpent Sting - Instantly deals 40% of the damage done by your Serpent Sting," meaning that it deals 40% of the damage that a single cast of serpent sting would deal. So the serpent sting glyph effectively adds another 40% of a tick to the sting-component of your chimera shot damage.

Largo · 12/12/08, 4:30 PM

edited: spending 10 minutes on a post while 2 others have posted the same...

Nomadi · 12/12/08, 7:56 PM

Originally Posted by mako

I'd say I'm stating a fact as opposed to making a suggestion.

There's nothing wrong with the chimera shot tooltip. It states "Serpent Sting - Instantly deals 40% of the damage done by your Serpent Sting," meaning that it deals 40% of the damage that a single cast of serpent sting would deal. So the serpent sting glyph effectively adds another 40% of a tick to the sting-component of your chimera shot damage.

I ran the tests, you are correct. This does place Serpent sting glyph quite high when compared to other MM glyphs. So right now for MM glyphs, I suppose the best ones would be Rapid Fire, Improved aoth and serpent sting.

Edit:
In the next patch:

Glyph of Serpent Sting - Increases the duration of your Serpent Sting by 6 sec. (Up from 3 sec)

So, incase it's not yet a must-have glyph for MM, it will be.

Alex234 · 12/12/08, 8:58 PM

Someone playin on PTR, was Marked For Death talent with stedy shot glyph bug got fixed ?

ankah · 12/12/08, 11:21 PM

Please forgive me if the answer is some where else, and I did not find it.

My question is in regards to Wild Quiver:

Does it have an internal cooldown or any other mechanism to reduce it from "procing" aside from the %?

I am just wondering, since our haste rating (well at least mine any how) will continue to go up, it seems like a more attractive skill.

In the same topic, same question for Aspect of the Hawk.

Eporter · 12/13/08, 5:55 AM

My question is in regards to the "marked for death" has anyone been able to figure out wiehter or not 4/5 marked for death trumps the imp steady shot glyph?

Endage · 12/13/08, 8:33 AM

Originally Posted by Nomadi

I ran the tests, you are correct. This does place Serpent sting glyph quite high when compared to other MM glyphs. So right now for MM glyphs, I suppose the best ones would be Rapid Fire, Improved aoth and serpent sting.

Edit:
In the next patch:

Glyph of Serpent Sting - Increases the duration of your Serpent Sting by 6 sec. (Up from 3 sec)

So, incase it's not yet a must-have glyph for MM, it will be.

I don't quite understand how that increases the Serpent Sting damage. It just increases the duration, so to me it seems it lowers the damage per tick and adds two extra ticks.
Wouldn't the Glyph otherwise say "and increases damage by X %)?

Shandara · 12/13/08, 8:49 AM

Originally Posted by Endage

I don't quite understand how that increases the Serpent Sting damage. It just increases the duration, so to me it seems it lowers the damage per tick and adds two extra ticks.
Wouldn't the Glyph otherwise say "and increases damage by X %)?

To iterate what has been said on these boards multiple times; the glyph adds extra ticks, does not reduce the damage per tick. The extra damage from the extra ticks counts for Chimera Shot-Serpent.

Endage · 12/13/08, 10:34 AM

Originally Posted by Shandara

To iterate what has been said on these boards multiple times; the glyph adds extra ticks, does not reduce the damage per tick. The extra damage from the extra ticks counts for Chimera Shot-Serpent.

Ok thanks for clarifying that, I have also read contradicting results so I was confused. Going to try the Glyph right now.

KraxisSingular · 12/13/08, 11:57 AM

Originally Posted by Endage

Ok thanks for clarifying that, I have also read contradicting results so I was confused. Going to try the Glyph right now.

The glyph was indeed borked initially, only streched the sting. That was obviously pretty poor. But given how every other glyph that lengthens DoTs actually provided actual damage, it must have been an oversight of sorts.

Freetard · 12/13/08, 2:42 PM

Originally Posted by Eporter

My question is in regards to the "marked for death" has anyone been able to figure out wiehter or not 4/5 marked for death trumps the imp steady shot glyph?

Putting points in MfD will break the glyph. The amount of points make no difference.