In the case of Thorim, that requires me to turn my camera angle up to put Thorim in the frame instead of just turning around. Though I agree that mouseover macros are more versatile and are great for quick actions (especially for things like Masters Call which I always have on mouseover), I like to use the pre-targeted macro for fights in which I have a definite target in mind ahead of time. Just removes one step from the process.

I use a macro (which I can't post because I just logged out and can't remember it) that casts Viper on my focus target if I click the button with mouse 2... or on my current target under any other circumstances. Generally, I use my focus for MD, but it's not too big a deal to save it for Thorim/Freya on those fights. (I have a clique setup for casting MD on middle mouse button too, so that generally works fine)

Probably this one would be more useful then:

/cast [target=Thorim,exists][target=Freya,exists][target=Dark Rune Watcher,exists][target=mouseover,exists][] Viper Sting

Haven't tried yet, but should do the job you want with no need of constant editing. Will target, by order, if they exist, Thorim, Freya, dark Rune Watcher (Razorscale add), your mouseover target and finally your target. You can add other mobs in there.

About the boots enchant. Back in TBC, this was discussed by rogues. You can find it here :

Rogue: PvE DPS

Obviously you must now consider 16 agi instead of 12, and Icewalker instead of Surefooted.

The calculations are the same for a hunter because it considers the time you spend moving.

Conerning how to gem for MM. Ive studied the spreadsheet which gives a slight edge to agility over attack power on a 1 to 1 basis. I however figure that 32 AP > 16 agility. Especially with the 10% AP increase that trushot aura gives. The AP gems also translate into pet dps. I keep a crit raiting or 31% and ive seen an increase in my dps compared to my hunter when gemmed with agility. So why do MM hunters still keep stacking agility over AP? At a loss, please provide a solid answer other than just because. Thank you for your input.

It sounds like you are doing something wrong. I was going to download your profile to the spreadsheet, however you logged out in PVP gear. According to the spreadsheet, for me, 1 point of Agi is worth 1.417 DPS and 1 point of AP is worth .625 DPS. Therefore, it would take 2.27 AP points to equal 1 Agi point. In my case Agi is vastly superior to AP.

You mentioned TSA giving AP a 10 percent buff however you forget to mention kings also buffs all stats including agility by 10 percent. Maybe it is a gear thing or maybe a buff profile issue. In my case, and probably most other high end hunters Agi easily beats out AP.

Thanks,
Dradran

Another reason a lot of marksmen hunters gem agility is because we have survival as our dual spec which uses agility over attack power. This way you don't have to keep two sets of gear with you.

I've wondered the same thing. I've chalked it up to people being so concerned with spread sheets numbers, that they are forgetting the common sense test. The SrS glyph has no impact on MM DPS numbers in game 99% of the time.

My best DPS boosts have come from Kill Shot glyph, because of all the target switching, and Steady Shot glyph, because SS is about 10% of my damage on boss fights alone.

My 3rd glyph is Hunter's Mark most of the time, because I mark for all of the Hunters we run with so they don't have to.
I have it talented as well, so with the recent buff, it's now 780 AP to all hunters from HM alone.

For a pure personal DPS glyph, it's probably CS glyph depending on how tight of a shot rotation you can sustain over the course of a longer fight. Over 3 minutes you probably won't notice much of a change; over the course of a 10 minute catastrophy fight, it will make a pretty big difference.

I haven't run the fights enough times with identical groups to provide hard mumbers or any real evidence though, so as usual you'll probably have to see for yourself.

This isnt due to the fact that people are throwing away their common sense, but rather that Chimera Shot does "40% of the damage done by your serpent sting" and adding 6 seconds to the duration of SrS increases the overall damage it does, which leads to Chimera Shots doing more damage

This is completely false. It has been shown repeatedly that the Serpent Sting glyph increases the damage done by Chimera - Serpent.

LOL... Do you understand what the Serpent Sting glyph does? Have you not read any of the numerous posts on it before you chose to make statements on this forum that most of us forget common sense?

It is true that the 6 second extra duration does not always come into impact on keeping our Serpent sting from being refreshed in time by Chimera Shot before it would fall off without the glyph, but it is useful in many on the move or stun situations or when you have to temporarily leave the main target to briefly attack another target. The extra duration on Serpent Sting has kept it up for me when it would have otherwise fallen off on numerous occasions.

Next, the spreadheet models the ideal rotation in which case Chimera Shot always refreshes Serpent Sting in the normal duration. So its not the fact that it keeps refreshed better that results in the extra damage from the glyph.

The reason the glyph is so good is because the Serpent Sting portion of Chimera Shot is porportional to the damage that a FULL Serpent Sting can do. This is the full Serpent Sting damage, not just the amount it has done since the last refresh. The extra 6 s duration of the sting from the glyph is at full power and essentially increases the full damage of Serpent Sting by 40%, and thus, the damage of the Serpent Sting part of the Chimera Shot by 40%.

Considering that you also use the Chimera Shot glyph to perform Chimera Shots more frequently, the 40% more damage on the second part of the shot is even a bigger DPS boost.

When people say the the Serpent Sting glyph is a must for MM, they are not joking. They are not also being unrealistic and forgetting real game playing impacts. It is the best glyph for MM period - theorectical and in actual application. No other glyph comes close.

And regardless of what you think, it affects an MM's DPS 100% of the time they shoot a Chimera Shot when Serpent Sting is up and also helps in the situations where the extra 6s duration keeps the sting from falling off before being refreshed.

You DO understand, that keeping a consistent Rotation already gimps your DPS, right? Ulduar's encounters are not consistent, so your rotation shouldn't be consistent neither.



Does anyone ever Target Swap in raids? Serpent Sting Glyph helps with that too.

Serpent Mob A. (21 sec remaining on A)
Chimera Mob A. (20.5 sec remaining on A)
Serpent Mob B. (19 sec remaining on A, 21 sec remaining on B)
DPS mob A for 9-10 seconds.
Chimera Mob A. (21s A, 11s B)
Continue DPSing mob A for 10 seconds.
Chimera Mob B. (11s A, 21s B)
Continue DPSing mob A, while cycling the Sting between two targets)
Chimera Mob A. (21s A, 11s B)
Chimera Mob B. (11s A, 21s B)
etc etc

Sometimes the Serpent will drop off, but if you are glyphed for Chimera, your Stings wont drop off.
This strategy, combined with what I posted about Viper Sting a few pages back, is why I prefer Chimera Shot Glyph over Steady Shot Glyph.

There are very few fights in which switching between mobs like that is advisable. On the majority of encounters, there is one mob that you need to be killing before the others. On trash packs, etc, the switching mobs tactics may work well. Even on fights like Yogg P2 in which you have multiple tentacles up; but, when we consider top DPS, we're mostly concerned with single target. When you're doing Hodir HM, it doesn't really matter if you can keep SrS up on multiple mobs.

If you reread my statement, you'll find I did not state anything remotely resembling "I keep a strict shot rotation and it gives me the maximum DPS," as you seem to have misunderstood me to say. Instead, I specifically said I "like having a consistent rotation as much as possible without gimping my DPS" (important phrases emphasized). Always coupling your two highest-priority shots together is far from consistent, because you still have Arcane Shot floating around on a 6-second cooldown all the while displacing your Steadies. However, always coupling your two highest-priority shots together is far from random, because you always have one segment of your cycle that remains the same.

Thus we approach what is commonly known as a "middle ground." CS/AiS coupling is neither completely consistent nor completely random--it's a compromise that takes a small amount of the random nature of your DPS cycle out of the equation while sacrificing no DPS. Whether glyphed Chimera Shot is a DPS increase or not has been argued on both sides of the fence for several pages, and it ultimately comes down to user input. In some situations, Chimera Shot glyph produces higher numbers than other glyphs, while in others it produces lower. That means that this is not a mandatory glyph to achieve the highest possible DPS, so you can't claim that not using it will gimp your DPS. Indeed, there are scenarios where precisely the opposite is true.

I never referred to the Chimera Glyph at all in my statement, nor did I even imply that you should use it in order to min-max your DPS.
I made a simple statement, regarding one line in your paragraph that invalidated the the majority of the rest of that paragraph. But you cleared that up in your next post so its all good.

Yea, like you said, theres not many encounters where its plausible. But some encounters will benefit from it. The only bosses it is applicable to are Freya spawn of 3 adds, Kolo, Mimi P4, and Yogg (to a certain extent, it could be used during every phase, but as you said, most DPS time should be spent on certain targets like Crushers, not split).
On trash, it really shines. Im the type of guy who likes the little things. What people generally dont realize is that trash DPS does matter, because the faster trash is down, the less time your raid will spend in the instance. I dont know about you guys, but I'm always down for clearing Raids faster.

The extra 6 seconds on SrS glyph isnt only helpful for switching adds and keeping up SrS on 2 targets, but more importantly, it gives more leeway when you get thrown into the Slag Pot at Hodir, Gripped at Kologarn, or Constricted in Yogg Saron fight. Fifteen seconds may seem like a long time, but SrS will fall off before you know it if you get incapacitated.

Of course, the biggest reason to take this glyph is the extra damage on Chimera Shot - Serpent Sting, no doubt about that.

this should help you

Raiding Hunter Information and FAQ

Until the OP is updated, Munken of Ensidia's guide to MM posted here is a pretty good starter resource.

Not to nitpick b/c I agree with your reasoning, but being contstricted on Yogg shouldn't impact your rotation. I suppose there are different strategies for killing the Constrictors, and thus freeing the constricted person, but in our raid the ranged kill the Constrictors and the constrictee (just made that up) never needs to stop attacking the Crusher (you should still be in range and will do a lot more damage to the Crusher than the Constrictor).

Very true, although there have been occasions where YS death coiled me away from the Crushers and a Constrictor grapped me right after that, resulting in me being out of range of the Crusher. Things like that can happen and 21 sec SrS simply helps in situations like that.

So I'm back to start more trouble...
There is a post on the best possible thread showing marks far overtaking anything we have seen before using an all armor pen gemmed gearset and not using Arcane Shot in its rotation. Can anyone live confirm this ridiculous increase in dps? If so I may have to resign my efforts to prove SV is still king, and jump on the bandwagon.

i think untill more people have more of the BiS gear its gonna be difficult to tell whether the total ArP setup will win, and int he end the spreadsheet and best dps thread are just guidelines and in the end it comes down to personal preference and your situation.