trickie

Looking for a bit of advice from MM raiders please, I decided to respec to MM having been BM since 3.0 hit (DPS not a big requirement anymore for farm content, new patch nerfing my old readiness spec, and so much passive haste on gear) and there are a couple of questions I would like to ask more experienced people than myself.

1) Spec - I was looking at the talent calc and found some changes I would like to make to the 'standard' build and wanted some advice on them. I was thinking of:

Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft

On the grounds that:

- 2/2 GFTT is not needed with 38% base crit and nearing 50% raidcrit.
- Improved Steadyshot procs will be used on Chimera and so no point buffing arcane or aimed shots.
- Wild Quiver is terrible and seems to contribute less than 1% dmg compared to much more mana efficiency.

2) Gemming - Is AP > Agi > Crit like BM? I am thinking so since crit is really not a problem with this spec and TSA is a % based effect now.

Would this be a smart spec considering 8% hit from gear, or should I gem for AP more and take focus aim instead? (I am 8% hit from gear since FA does not benefit BM hunters at all, and MM pets are a lot less dmg)

3) Aspect of the Viper - Worth using 4 set t7.5 or better off using non-set gear with better stats and spending slightly longer in Viper? Should I save Rapid Fire for Viper or for DPS times (considering i have it talented for less mana)?

4) Does pet matter anymore? Ofc there is a nerf coming to scorp and cat but all pet damage seems a very minor amount as this spec, so does it have a big impact between the two?



I would really appreciate any help or advice here, I bow to any MM hunter as more experienced and knowledgeable than myself

 

Suspiria

Maybe we need some more test about a really contribute of MM spec from Unleashed Fury post nerf: take Survival Insticts now would be a better "filler".

 

Athania

MM hunter - PvE raiding (No PvP)

I have been away from the game a while and now when I came back, a lot of changes has happened.
I am mostly interested in finding out 2 thing.

I am currently using this in my rotation:
Serpent sting, Chimera Shot, Steady Shot, Steady Shot, Multi-Shot, Steady Shot, Steady Shot
(KC and KS when ready)

Usually in that order.

Dps
I do about 2100 dps when I'm alone (test dummies in IF, lvl 80) when I'm buffed with Trueshot Aura and Aspect of the dragonhawk.
Currently I have a cat as pet.

Questions
1. Is this rotation alright or is there another way to maximize my dps? (I have been reading the previous posts but everyone seems to think different )
2. Is it worth to spec Improved Stings? since I always have Serpent sting up

Thoughts
I have been thinking about removing Multi-Shot even though I get a lot of damage done through that. Was thinking of a rotation with basically only Serpent, chimera and steady in it.
I have also been thinking a lot about speccing Improved Stings but at the same time I've been thinking that it's not worth it so I'm kinda stuck in the middle, or so it feels like.

Thank you for any thoughts.


Edit:Thank you Trickie and Asmolicious for your thoughts and advices, much appreciated.

 

trickie

Well I am kinda new to the spec and in my researching of it, looking at tons of high dps WWS parses, the best showings were of hunters using only Steady/Serpent/Chimera (with often 1 Multishot/Aimed shot which I assume was for the misdirect/movement) which I have also adopted assuming that it is the best mana:dps option and maybe even the best dps option once they fix marked for death bug - making sure that as much as possible I stack up a high dmg serpent at the start of single target fights and keep it rolling for the duration where possible.

Assuming that not using multi/arcane is a good option, it frees up a ton of talent points - either to put into mana talents or invest in more damage talents.

 

Asmolicious

Serpent Sting Glyph
So just to clear up any ambiguity I got out my fine light crossbow and did some testing with chimera shot with and without the serpent sting glyph. The result was that without it the serpent portion of the chimera shot was hitting consistently for 633 damage, with the glyph it was hitting for 759 damage. This was a 20% increase in damage (one assumes 40% with the doubling of duration with the next patch).

So if any of you are curious on how that factors in as a total of your damage.

The serpent portion of the chimera shot normally accounts for around 5% of a total DPS rotation after looking at WWSs. A 20% increase in this then is roughly a 1% overall DPS gain with that being buffed to 2% next patch.

Steady Shot Glyph
The Steady Shot glyph boosts steady damage by 10% with a shot making up 30% of your total damage. This means it yields approximately a 3% increase in DPS.

The ladies like the bestial wrath, they don't appreciate the rapid fire.

 

Asmolicious

1. Multi is too expensive and will drain your mana very quickly. In a situation where you have adds up then you are better off using Volley.

2. Imp Stings works out to be around 1% damage increase per points. Serpent Sting and Chimera's Serpent Component makes up just over 10% of your damage. Each point is a 10% increase in that damage thus yielding 1% DPS per point which is a good return for an earlyish talent.

The ladies like the bestial wrath, they don't appreciate the rapid fire.

 

Alex234

I have question about standart macro for steady\kill shots :

Is there any way to add here Chimera shot ability ?
Best thing i have found is to replace bolded line with

/castrandom Kill Shot, Chimera shot

But when it tryin to apply kill shot (when mob is more than 20% hp) and got failed, its surely not tryin to apply chimera
Any idea how to fix it ?

 

Feldjaeger

So i put together a fairly typical 11/53/7 Build and once i get the hit off gear ill obv move those 2 remaining talents, and once im able to find a bunch of haste, MM just gets better and better. As it stands im at about 164 haste and using the SpS->Cs->SSx4ish->Cs.... rotation.

On the 80mob dummy in org i find myself running oom at about 100-110sec. Is this typical? unbuffed im around 11.2k mana.

Here's my Armory, too. Criticism/advice is always appreciated.

Oh, also, with my current spd, i find myself having about a second or so left on the Cs cd, should i throw in another Ss, or wait that half a sec to a sec and fire Cs immediately? also, is there a potential macro that would do better at minmaxing this for me?

 

Ferrari_13

I would think including Arcane and or Aimed would be a DPS loss. Considering Imp SS only has a 15% chance to proc which means it takes 6.6666xSS till it procs and at a cast rate of 1.5sec (when at haste "cap") this perfectly aligns the CD of CS with the proc rate. Substitution arcane and or Aimed will only reduce your CS damage.

With the upcoming improved serpent sting glyph there will be even more damage coming from CS now, and you probably wouldn't want an arcane or aimed to steal the Imp SS proc. Unless the increased damage of Arcane/Aimed over SS outweighs the increased rate of CS+Imp SS damage.

 

Athania

Do you only want it to cast Chimera Shot at the end of the fight if Kill Shot fails or do you want to cast Chimera Shot throughout the fight?

 

Fendryl

The way the macro system seems to work is this - if you have a /cast that is invalid (e.g. kill shot on > 20% mob), it'll be skipped over when processing; however, if you are trying to /cast an ability on cooldown it'll still consider that for an attempted cast & not let any other /casts below it process.

Unfortunately the only real way to macro a priority scheme is to use something like a G15 or other programmable application; and even that in a spam situation isn't completely reliable, as it's still possible for a lower priority keystroke to sync up just right with a gcd finishing. The other option is to write out an explicit castsequence, but if your steady shots aren't hasted down to 1.5 100% of the time, a haste proc like IAotH may throw it off slightly

 

KraxisSingular

So adding that Kill Shot line would only work until Kill Shot is actually fired, then the macro would fail? I must misunderstand something as the macro listed has been put forth so many times in various forms that if it locked out Steady Shot surely someone would have noticed. Personally I have not done it because I don't want my Kill Shot on CD when I might really need it. But after the change in CD it might just make it to a macro...

 

Fendryl

You're right, there's still something more to it that I'm missing. Because yes, this does work fine, even in < 20% situations:
However this won't ever get to the Steady Shot:

 

Greenpiggy

If you want a lazy macro then this works:

/cast Kill Shot
/castrandom Chimera Shot, Steady Shot, Chimera Shot

Adding more chimera shots to the random line will increase your chances of firing chimera right on its CD.
I suppose after the patch slapping arcane and perhaps aimed into that line will be beneficial too..

 

Octopi

Looking for ideas on a simple Chimera Steady spam macro. I don't think I am at the point where I would want anything other than Steady, Kill and Chimera all on the same macro. Arcane/Aimed I still feel to be situational.

Anyone know how a macro could prioritize Chimera and what it would look like in order to function properly?

With the input from the above poster, its seems adding in a cast random with multiple instance of Chimera Shot added to increase the likelihood of firing it immediately off of CD is one way to do it, but is it the "best" or most efficient?

 

Alex234

I want to shot chimera on CD Like kill shot, when its available.

2all :

Is there some addon to show my current RAP to know best time to apply serpent sting ? Sometimes its hard to see procs of Mirror of Truth etc in raids because of many buffs applied.

 

Zerlu

I would like to point out that its a better use of an Imp. SS proc to fire a Chimaera Shot, than an Arcane Shot. If you are mashing a /castrandom macro, you stand a good chance of eating that charge with an Arcane Shot.

 

Dralmoo

Aimed Shot seems like it would definitely be worth considering in an MM build, at least from my looking at the spreadsheet - If you get the barrage talents, the spreadsheet shows me as doing 3934 dmg/aimed vs 2241 for the steady, so only very slightly worse DPM and considerably higher DPS for the GCD. (and that's without the glyph as i'm not sure you can find room for it).

 

Whitemane

Is aimed shot getting reduced in cost as well? Arcane seems much better.

 

Dralmoo

Aimed is more damage per cast too. It seems like using rotation both may be the highest DPS if the mana is there.

 

Serpent's Choice

With the assumption that both Arcane and Aimed will be viable rotation elements, I am envisioning something along the lines of: (Serpent); Chimera, Aimed, Arcane, Steady, Steady, Steady, Arcane, Chimera, Aimed, Steady, Arcane, Steady, Steady, Steady, <repeating...>

Obviously, you'd need to watch for procs -- if a steady procs ISS before an arcane, then that arcane should be substituted for another steady to allow ISS to trigger off Chimera. If you're not running at max efficiency (insufficient haste, latency, whatever) then one steady from each of the 3x steady sequences can be dropped to make up for the longer cast time. RF can be dropped in in place of a steady also when it is appropriate.

And admittedly, I may have overlooked something. I've been a stubborn SV holdout, so MM mechanics are still not my strongest suit.

 

Rya

Well I have been reading through this whole thread and people are always talking about the haste "cap" to get steadys to 1.5sec cast time i think. But i wasnt able to find a number of how much haste rating is needed to get to the cap.
Anyone able to help me with the number?

 

Vitaro

I have started to develop a (very bare-bone) addon that informs an MM hunter when Serpent Sting needs to be manually recast for added damage. Currently it is only checking for an increase in the player's Ranged Attack Power value (due to trinkets, procs, etc) and giving an alert purely based on that; however I feel that I must extend this to target debuffs.

I've done some research using Shandara' Spreadsheet and found via trial and error process of adding- and removing target debuffs that the following have an effect on the value that Serpent Sting ticks for:

- Hunter's Mark
- Curse of Elements
- Earth and Moon stacks

Surprisingly enough I could not find "Ferocious Inspiration" in the raid-buff section (as MM this should be "Ferocious Inspiration (not you)", of course) - so I wonder whether this has any effect on Serpent Sting. (I'll test this tonight in-game with a friend). I do expect it to.

Basically I want to extend my addon so that it checks for the events:

+ "hunter RAP increased"
+ any of the above debuffs being applied to the target
+ buffs like Ferocious Inspiration being up

My question to the EJ hunter community is: Are there any other mid-fight buffs or debuffs that you can think of that a) influence the Serpent Sting tick values but at the same time b) are not RAP-related?


PS: I didn't deem this important enough to create a new threat but if this turns into a longer discussion I will

 

Whitemane

So what exactly do we do about talents? Arcane shot has 3 talent points to buff its damage, aimed shot needs 1 talent point to acquire it and further 3 to buff its damage. Not saying that any of these are necessary, although in the case of aimed shot and how expensive it is I'd have to say you probably would need to spend the 3 talent points to buff the damage.

 

Selmarix

Not all those buffs and debuffs require a recast of Serpent Sting.
CoE and Earth and Moon (which don't stack with each other) increase magic damage on the target at the moment of the application of the damage. That means it is not calculated into the tick amount at the moment of the sting cast, but instead for each separate tick damage is increased if the debuff is up at that moment.
Hunter's Mark on the other hand increases AP which is only calculated at the moment of the sting cast.

So your addon needs to check for Hunter's Mark, but not CoE or Earth and Moon.

Ferocious Inspiration should increase Serpent Sting damage. The spreadsheet has a similar raid buff (I think it was some talented pally aura) that does not stack with FI and can be used instead of it.
I am not entirely sure, but general damage increase auras are usually applied at the moment of damage application and not calculated into the tick amount at sting cast. In that case recasting would not help for it.