Yes, but "Normalized" in Aimed and Multi (and I assume Chimera, it didn't exist when we last tested this)'s cases means the AP contribution is normalized, the ammo contribution isn't and the base weapon damage isn't.

Steady shot on the other hand is perfectly calculated according to weapon dps and AP and ammo, which you may want to call "normalized", but it's a different sort of normalization.

Has anyone else found regemming for ArP to really take the advantage of dual spec away? I am staying with agi mainly for the abilty to switch to survival on fights where it will perform better. If were going to concede that there are fights where mm > surv and the reverse of that, then doesnt it make sense to be able to effectively utilize both spec for maximum dmg output? Going full ArP seems to pigeon hole you into MM.

I am getting the feeling from these forums that most hunters veiw raidng as a choice between MM and Surv, when it should be both and when/how to use them.(sorry BM hunters lol)

I'm a troll MM. I recently got the Magnetized Projectile Emitter. Up until then I have been using Siren's Cry. My only question would be is the MPE better than SC if I don't need the hit? I would think SC is better for the troll racial, just not sure if one out weighs the other.

So As many hunters are starting to do on Firetree. Once getting the T8.5 4pc set bonus i switched my main spec over to MM. One of my fellow guildies is still dead set in his ways the SV is still the superior spec in the game currently, which for some encounters i agree. But we then started talking about how Armor Pen benefits MM more then it benefits SV. Since switching over i have stacked a lot of ArP as a sacrifice of Haste. Here are my current Stats, Build and Glyphs.

Spec MM (7/57/7)
My Current Spec from MMO-Champ with Glyphs

Stats of importance(with Dragonhawk & TSA active)
Agility- 1424
Stam- 1103
Int- 488

Dmg: 1653-1944
Speed: 2.30 (Haste Rting 199)
Hit- 266 (8.11%)
ArP- 447 (36.30%)
Crit- 37.30%

I'm also raiding with
[Fury of the Five Flights]
[Darkmoon Card: Greatness]

Here is a link to me full Gear set for raiding.
Asylom of Firetree @ WoW Armory

So what my question is.
How is it that I'm still able to maintain almost a 1.5 second cast on my Steady shot is only 199 haste rating. Where as my guildie whose WoW armory i'll link at the bottom has 125 more haste rating and is just tad quicker then me? Is there a large drop off with Haste once you hit a certain amount? And has anyone calculated out how much DPS "X" amount of Armor Pen is for hunters?

Here is my friends Armory:
Maldev of Firetree

Any information would be great. I'm Not that good with the number crunching so this was my best method of seeing if im doing something right.

PS.
With my current ArP at 36.29% i have been consistently hitting 20k+ kill shots on all bosses in Uld 25, which is higher then any hunter in my guild, and some non-guild friends that i have talked to in the past few weeks.

I'm an Orc hunter. So for me Giant's Bane is BiS until my guild gets to Algalon and i have a chance at the Xbow

But from how i understood in a lil theorycrafting with a couple of troll hunters in my guild. The Siren's Cry is BiS for you even over the xbow because of the crit increase with your racial.
I havent got numbers to back this but the Hunter Maldev that i mentioned in my own questions is great with numbers and feels that the bow is BiS for troll hunters.

It takes away some of the convenience of dual speccing yes, but I think the majority of classes wear different sets of gear for different specs anyway, no reason for us not to - carry one set gemmed with AGI and another set gemmed with ArP.

Why do so many people think that speed and damage range are such a huge determining factor in a weapon's performance?

The stats on Magnetized Projectile Emitter are very poor. Unless you need the hit rating, the stats on Giant's Bane are highly superior.

Are you only looking at the gear planner or actually equipping it? My gear planner shows the Emitter behind Giant's Bane too, but actually equipping it the Emitter is much better. Even before taking the extra +hit into account the Emitter is slightly ahead.

The top end weapon dmg on the MPE makes it nice for MM. One thing people forget by using the spreadsheet is that the extra hit allows you to change up enchants, gems, and other gear. The spreadsheet doesn't do that for you; you have to experiment with it. Play with it until you get the numbers you're looking for. Maybe equipping the gun on its own is a downgrade, but if you equip it, then change that Icewalker enchant to agi, or change hit gems to agi, you'll see an increase.

Asylom, yes there is a point with haste at which you start having diminished benefits, which is right around 200 haste rating. The reason is that even though your GCD is 1.5 sec, you still have to factor in latency which at 150 ms would make it 1.65 sec GCD. It means getting your Steady Shot faster than what your latency allows decreases the value of haste with it mostly affecting Auto Shot. Conventional wisdom is that 200ish haste rating plus the haste buff from your ret pally or moonkin is sufficient. And ofc whenever you use any haste CD or proc any haste buff you're GCD capped anyway.

I have both Siren's Cry and MPE (Magnetized Projectile Emitter).

When I equip Siren's Cry using the spreadsheet, my DPS is 7498.05. When I equip MPE, my DPS jumps to 7519.59.

I am already hit capped with Siren's cry, so the hit stats on MPE are wasted item points. Yet, even with those wasted item points in hit, the spreadsheet still tells me MPE is better.

Curious though, the equipment planner still has Siren's Cry above MPE. You have to manually equip the MPE to see it's actually better. Maybe this is a bug in the spreadsheet.

Picked up MPE this week and after an hour of unbuffed dummy testing I found it definitely gives a 3-4% increase on all non-Sp CS/AS/KS/SilS over Siren's Cry. My piercing shots also increased, I'm willing to guess half of piercing shots ticks are affected by non-srp CS/AS. Since non-sp CS/AS/KS/SilS and 50% of piercing shot account for about 25-30% of my total raid damage a 3-4% increase is at very least a 1% total damage increase over Siren's Cry. Which I guess is also what the spreadsheet is showing. I'm not sure if that initial 3-4% increase in damage will expand or contract when fully raid buffed.
(The cheaper ammo is almost worth putting up with the fusillade in my ears for 4 hours every evening.)

I switched from Grim Toll to Mjolnir the same night I picked up MPE so the hit on MPE actually helped out a lot as well since Grim was pushing me to cap.
Curious if anyone has an opinion about this though since I can never get the spreadsheet to work:
Icewalker (12hit/12 crit) + 16 hit gem
OR
1 point in FA taken out of improved barrage, replacing icewalker with +16 agil and gem with +16 agil or ArP

Basically is (32 agil) greater than (1 point improved barrage and 12 crit)

My opinion is the FA option. For my character, each point in FA is worth about 58 DPS while a point in IB is only worth about 23 on single targets. So for me thats +35 DPS from the respec with the 32 agil to offset the 12 crit. That 32 agility is really 36.06 with CE and BoK which is 40.3 AP and 0.44% crit versus the about 0.25% crit from the Icewalker.

200? Last i heard it was 523.

Neither a ret pally or moonkin's buffs affect your ranged haste, only melee haste.
Unless I'm mistaken, that was changed quite some time ago.

The point at which Steady Shot is 1.5 seconds and is no longer affected by haste because our GCD is not lowered is 523. However, if you average out Improved AotH procs/Bloodlust/Haste Potions, it's around 200.

windfury was changed to not affect ranged haste, fairly sure swift retribution and moonkin aura still apply to all types of haste.

i appreciate the Haste feedback its help me friend find a better balance. But what still have me wondering is has it been calculated as to how much DPS 1% of ArP gives hunters. I have checked out the ArP discussion but im terrible with the math and usually get it wrong. Like i mentioned im sitting at 36.29% Armor Pen which the last i check i have the highest of the top 10 on Firetree. I have had a lot of others tell me its pointless i should stack more this or that. ususally more Crit but at 37% crit unbuffed i think im ok there.

Opinions?

More crit. 37% is very low for your gear level for MM spec. If you don't have high enough crit, armor pen loses some of it's value because you won't get enough Piercing shots procs which help boost the value of ArP. Hunter Stats are a balancing game.

I'm having a lot of trouble figuring out how good ApR is for MM hunter, especially when you have to choose between ApR and Crit/AP.

Is it someting to go all or nothing? I mean regem to ApR, go nuts with it or something to start improving but keeping the other relevant stats at a minimum lvl? I can't seem to aproach it in a rational way.

As in response to the question of stacking ArP over Crit I would say just wait till you get higher end gear and dont have to worry about losing the Crit. Most of the gear off hard modes and last bosses in Ulduar stacks ArP Crit and Atk Pwr, while the lower end gear stacks Haste ArP and Atk Pwr. I have a lot of the lower end gear and find it rather useless, as haste is a rather lame stat atm.

Piercing Shots is no longer a MM ArP bonus. Its a bleed effect that when maxed is 30% of dmg dealt of 8 sec. Which procs off Steady, Chimera, and Aimed shot. Being MM i obviously have all of them in my rotation.

More ArP means bigger Aimed and Steady crits though, leading to larger PS damage.

But no, I wouldn't say this leads to arp being any more reliant on crit than any other stat is - AP loses its value in the same way as your crit drops too.