IRazerscale and Ignis Damage used to be way higher before 3.2 - at least 800 dps on ignis for example. Last time I ran Uldu25 pre Patch, I had like 6.6k DPS on Ignis. Also, Archavon and Emalon used to be at around 6.5k DPS, another 500 dps decrease. According to the Spreadsheet, I should do about 300 dps more than I did pre-patch
Note: For some weird Reason my Pet didn use Bite on Archa/Ema and has an impossible high miss rate (15%). Dont ask me how or why though.
Does anybody find something really obvious I may be missing? Is Raid buff missing? Is my Rotation messed up?
I didn't really had the impression that my game was that off - went pretty smooth actually. Good Positioning and stuff.
Gear and Specc used are in the Armory. Also used 40 ARP Food to reach 555 ARP + Runestone. Spreadsheet puts me at 8067 DPS.
Edit: Hasnt updated yet - Switch Draconic Ring with Metallic Loop + Move the 10 Stat Prismatic to the Loop of the Agile and switch the 20/34 arp gem in Belt and Legs. If you see the Metallic Loop in there, Gear has already been upgraded
First, there is no reason to get excited from the comparison of a couple WWS logs. There is a lot of variability in every fight, especially ones with a lot of movement. But even in more ideal fights like Ignis, there is still a lot of variability that affects your DPS, such as did you get put in the pot more, was bloodlust or rapid fire being used while you were in the pot, was there all the same buffs and debuffs, did the boss move into melee range more often when reaching to put someone into the pot, etc. There is also the RNG affect from the sample size. One night you may have had more of a lucky crit streak than others or more frequent procs of abilities. For example, I led DPS on one of our Hodir hardmode kills because I had about a 75% crit rate on my steady shots that fight, while for most Hodir attempts I am lucky to get 3rd on the meters.
One glaring thing I see in the WWS you linked on Ignis is that your autoshot's crit rate was low relative to your other shots. Considering the portion of an MMs DPS and attacks that come from autoshot, 10% lower crit rate due to bad luck in RNG makes a huge difference.
Another is that Sunder Armor was missing for 13% of the fight. That is going to affect your DPS relative to a fight where Sunder Armor had a greater uptime.
In addition to those two items, I am sure that there are many, many more differences between the two fights that would affect your DPS.
One thing iv'e always been confused about in almost any forum, regardless of spec, is when discussing shot rotations KS is usually second however since it can't be used until mob has 20% health are we supposed to skip in in the original rotation THEN add it once mob has less than 20% health?
Technically it's a priority system.
This means you use the shot highest on the priority list 1st, and if it's not available then move on to #2, and so on. But as soon as #1 is available again, you go back to that.
It just so happens that the cookie cutter MM spec falls into a 'set' rotation until KS is available, so in answer to your question; yes you skip KS until you can use it.
Ok, so hopefully I wont get blown up for asking this question, (because its been discussed, wrong thread, etc.) but here goes:
Restarting my Hunter to level to 80 (level 62), haven't played it for 3 toons now, and after updates and resets, i need help with:
- speccing my hunter at 62
- rotation (if needed at that level)
Ok, so hopefully I wont get blown up for asking this question, (because its been discussed, wrong thread, etc.) but here goes:
Restarting my Hunter to level to 80 (level 62), haven't played it for 3 toons now, and after updates and resets, i need help with:
- speccing my hunter at 62
- rotation (if needed at that level)
any help is appreciated.
I'm assuming you want to spec MM since you're posting in here...but the best advice i can give you is to spec BM and let your pet do most of the killing
I have a simple question for some of the hunters looking at current BIS lists, is there a certain amount of haste that some try to aim for.
I have been looking at some of the lists and have found it possible to get to near 1200 arp (too much of course) along with 2 piece t9, but as a result my haste would be so low SS would be about a 1.7 second + cast time. Is the haste soft cap something i want to reach even if it means sacrificing a decent amount of crit or arp?
I would check the spread sheet but my computer with excel on it is current unusable.
I have a simple question for some of the hunters looking at current BIS lists, is there a certain amount of haste that some try to aim for.
I have been looking at some of the lists and have found it possible to get to near 1200 arp (too much of course) along with 2 piece t9, but as a result my haste would be so low SS would be about a 1.7 second + cast time. Is the haste soft cap something i want to reach even if it means sacrificing a decent amount of crit or arp?
Since you are doing the ArP route and rotation with no CD lowering glyphs, you are fine. Remember that your main shots, CS and AiS, are on 10 second CDs in a CS-AiS-SSx4 rotation. That's 6 shots and 6 GCDs (9 seconds) in 10s leaving a 1s window. Hence, as long as your SS cast is less than 1.75s, you can theoretically get your whole rotation done in the 10 second window. I believe the old 15% quiver haste already gets you down to 1.73 s SS cast already, so theoretically, you do not need any passive haste for the MM ArP rotation. All adding more haste does is improve your autoshot DPS and provide more buffer for human reaction time while still having a tight rotation.
So the same old rule applies for haste - don't worry about getting haste on gear but gladly take it when its on your best gear already.
Yeah, not gearing for haste is an approach I have always taken in the past its good to see that it wasn't a poor choice on my part. Thanks for the simple response.
I was asking myself about Footpad of Silence and Boots (leather) of the living scale (mail). Why does the dps spreadsheet is showing that the leather boots are better than the mail one? And are the mail boots better when you are stacking ArPen?
I was asking myself about Footpad of Silence and Boots (leather) of the living scale (mail). Why does the dps spreadsheet is showing that the leather boots are better than the mail one? And are the mail boots better when you are stacking ArPen?
Well, to do the comparison it helps to qauntify the stat differences as shown below for going from the mail to leather boots, with for me no net change in gemming but a change in socket bonus of +6 agi and -6 hit.
Armor: -497 + 39 (from agi) = -458 (not a huge difference in mitigation)
Agi: +17 * 1.10 (BoK) + 1.04 (CE) = +19.5
Sta: -2 (just a trivial loss of health and didn't bother with BoK))
Int: -45 * 1.1 (BoK) + 1.04 (CE) = 51.5 => -773 mana pool
AP: -24 +19.5 (from agi) - 15.5 (from int) = -20 * 1.1 (TSA) = -22
Crit: +8 => 0.174% + 0.234% (from agi) = 0.41%
hit: +42 => +1.28%
ArP: -45 => -3.66%
So the real tradeoff here is 773 mana, 22 AP, and 3.66% ArP for the mail piece versus 0.41% crit and 1.28% hit for the leather piece. If just comparing the AP to the crit, then the leather piece wins out since the crit is usually worth more (its equivalent to about 34 agi while the AP is equivalent to about 20). However, there is more to the story than that. If you need the additional hit on the leather piece to replace FA points and move them to a damage talent and/or hit gems/enchants, then the relative DPS gain from the leather piece is greater. On the other hand, if you are tight on mana or stacking a decent amount of ArP, then that favors the mail boots.
For my situation, the mail boots are about 20 DPS better. This is partially due to the fact that the much of the hit on the leather piece is wasted. I already only have 1 point in FA with no hit gems or enchants (just a +6 hit socket bonus). The hit from the leather boots does allow me to switch a point from FA to top off IB and to break the +6 hit socket bonus by replacing the gem there with a cardinal ruby cut but that leaves me 9 hit over the cap. Furthermore, although I only have 262 ArP with the mail boots, that is still enough stacking of ArP to favor them. Another benefit of the mail boots that does not show up in the spreadsheet with the default settings for fight duration and full raid buffs is the affect of the additional mana to keep you out of AoV more. That mana is an additional DPS boost on longer fights or 10-mans with less buffs.
The leather boots are probably coming out better for you on the spreadsheet since:
- You are able to move a point in FA and replace some of your hit in gems resulting in a DPS increase
- You only have a 100 ArP currently
- The spreadsheet is probably not counting the increased DPS uptime in some situations from the mana
- You may not have your rotation in the spreadsheet set to the ArP rotation, which would favor the mail boots more
As an aside, although it would drop you about 0.01-0.02% below the hit cap, your DPS would be slightly better if you moved your Nightmare Tear from the red socket in your helm to the blue socket in your chest to get the +6 hit rating socket bonus. Then you can put a 20 agi gem in your helm instead of the glinting gem you had in your chest breaking that socket bonus. In general, Nightmare Tears are best used in blue sockets with the most needed socket bonus since we really do not have a better blue gem option while we definitely have good red gem (delicates and fractureds) and yellow gem (deadlies) options. One thing that I have noted with the BiS 3.2 gear is that there are a lot of pieces with yellow sockets and good enough socket bonuses where it is better to gem a deadly instead of breaking the socket bonus to gem a delicate. So although right now my gems are 12 r, 1 y, 1 b, they would be 19r, 12 y, and 1 b in my currently chosen BiS gear.
wow, thank you for the nice and informative post, I change my gem and I was thinking about going for more ArPen in the future, just dinged 80 last week 0.o
In the absence of a prot warrior, a dps warrior should be keeping sunder up on the boss. You can see how much sunder actually affects your dps, and the other options in place of it, via the spreadsheet.
I just did some testing after buying 2 cheap 232 pieces which I'm about to return and the results were not very exciting. Yes, Serp crits, but it's spell crit so only a 50% boost - average 650 hit, 975 crit totally unbuffed on dummy in IF - bummer... and confirming it has no effect on Chim/Serp damage. More of a bummer...
I just did some testing after buying 2 cheap 232 pieces which I'm about to return and the results were not very exciting. Yes, Serp crits, but it's spell crit so only a 50% boost - average 650 hit, 975 crit totally unbuffed on dummy in IF - bummer... and confirming it has no effect on Chim/Serp damage. More of a bummer...
That's disappointing. I wonder if it's intentional or an oversight. With physical crit it was worth about 244.54dps in the dps analyzer for me (this is assuming that the T8 2pc works properly with it). I tested with spell crit and that brings it down to 151.53dps. Which is still pretty nice for a 2pc bonus, but a lot weaker. Were you able to establish if mortal shots is affecting it? If not that'd bring it down even lower. I've got enough badges to buy 2 pc of 232, so I'll see if I can grab them on PTR and do a bit more testing before I update the dps analyzer for the new numbers.
I did expect that it wouldn't affect chimera damage though (since chimera has its own chance to crit, allowing it to affect it would be like letting it crit twice) so that is already not included in the formula.
Sunder has nothing to do with Armor Penetration. Neither does Faeri Fire.
Sunder reduces a % armor.
ArP ignores a % of armor.
Of course both are different mechanics, but armor penetration becomes more effective if the debuffs are applied to the target. Even if you would have reached the hardcap of armor penetration Sunder Armor and Faerie Fire would still boost your DPS, but since no hunter should have reached that yet the debuffs are even more important.
I just did some testing after buying 2 cheap 232 pieces which I'm about to return and the results were not very exciting. Yes, Serp crits, but it's spell crit so only a 50% boost - average 650 hit, 975 crit totally unbuffed on dummy in IF - bummer... and confirming it has no effect on Chim/Serp damage. More of a bummer...
then i assume it also crits according to spell crit chance which makes it much less useful, have you observed low crit chance during your tests?
Of course both are different mechanics, but armor penetration becomes more effective if the debuffs are applied to the target. Even if you would have reached the hardcap of armor penetration Sunder Armor and Faerie Fire would still boost your DPS, but since no hunter should have reached that yet the debuffs are even more important.
ArP becomes more effective as you get more of nearly everything that buffs your or debuffs the boss. Just like crit becomes more effective as you get additional other buffs. Or haste. Or AP.
The question that keeps popping up though, is, are sunder and ArP directly related. And the answer is no, which is what the first post seemed to imply.
ArP becomes more effective as you get more of nearly everything that buffs your or debuffs the boss. Just like crit becomes more effective as you get additional other buffs. Or haste. Or AP.
The question that keeps popping up though, is, are sunder and ArP directly related. And the answer is no, which is what the first post seemed to imply.
I understand what you mean, but as Ghostcrawler described here the effect of ArP is directly related to the amount of armor the target has. And since Sunder lowers this amount of armor, I would call this a direct relation.
08/14/09, 1:38 PM
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